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Title: Parking and farmers
Post by: phil1960 on 14:34:05, 14/11/17
Bad parking? Bad farmer? You decide https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/11/14/police-probe-after-great-gable-remembrance-day-walkers-cars-damaged-at-seathwaite (https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/11/14/police-probe-after-great-gable-remembrance-day-walkers-cars-damaged-at-seathwaite)
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 18:12:07, 16/11/17
How would you like it, if half the country decided to pay a visit to your neighbourhood, and needlessly blocked access to your farm or fields for several hours.
I agree that the damage to this 4x4 looks pretty malicious, but if the owner of the vehicle had parked more carefully and respectfully, the farmer would not have had to cause the damage to the car.

Farmers are busy people, and cannot wait several hours for careless owners of vehicles to return to  badly parked vehicles.

Its the owners fault, park more respectfully next time.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: fernman on 18:31:34, 16/11/17
Yes but it was Remembrance Day. Compassion should have prevailed, in spite of some poor parking.
The farmer must be aware that this happens once a year, he could let them get on with it while he did something else that day.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Penygadair on 18:34:51, 16/11/17
There's a second thread on this. Seathwaite


http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=35559.msg507263;topicseen#msg507263



Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: phil1960 on 18:50:55, 16/11/17
There's a second thread on this. Seathwaite


http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=35559.msg507263;topicseen#msg507263 (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=35559.msg507263;topicseen#msg507263)
I didn’t see that one so I’ll defer to that thread as it started first, for what it’s worth, I have sympathies with the farmer, but no need for that level of damage especially on Remembrance Day as fernman said.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: tenmilesplus on 22:39:40, 16/11/17
If your going to use Remembrance day as an excuse, why weren't the owners of these vehicles in Church or a remembrance parade somewhere instead of getting in the way of someone who has to work more hours than anyone else ?
 Sure the damage is excessive but justified once the level of frequency and frustration is taken into account.. Farmers don't get a salary, they are self employed. If someone prevented you from working and effected your income when you have to work 12- 14 hour days, you would snap eventually..

  The perspective here is, this is so shocking because it has happened once or twice over many years and bad parking happens in spite of the consequences.. The worry when you leave your car is more weather your car will be broken into, stolen or damaged by another motorist NOT by a tractor driving stressed Nutter.. The lesson here is, don't stress the driver of a much larger vehicle.. If we all think about how we would like to be treated and act accordingly with consideration there would be more love to go around.. Spread the Love people..
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: phil1960 on 23:22:21, 16/11/17
I stand by exactly what I said and I did say I have sympathies with the farmer. Let’s assume it’s “justified” for the reasons you state, what if we all go over the top and take matters into our own hands because a few people have been inconsiderate and selfish to us, get my drift?
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: harland on 08:15:26, 17/11/17
As tenmilesplus believes that the damage to the cars was justified I presume that he would accept that the car drivers would be justified in damaging the equipment of the farmer (if known).
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: barewirewalker on 10:30:02, 17/11/17
It is pretty frustrating when visitors to the countryside interrupt the flow of agricultural work, especially during corn harvest. Back in the dim and distant past when I was a farm manager, I was preparing the way to move two combine harvesters from one farm to another and this meant bringing them through narrow roads in the village. To ensure the swift movement of a convoy that included tractors and trailers, I went ahead to prepare the way and open gates. The field with the most direct approach to the corn at the best stage for combining was down a short lane about 50yds to the gate, off the road. When I got there I found a car parked half way down it, I went to the gate and saw a couple lying under a tree about 150 yds away, I did not have time too run up the field and tell them to move else the convoy would have to stop in the village, but I did notice that they were in a very advance state of coitus (short strokes). Pushing the gate open noisily, I dashed back to see if I could halt the procession of farm machinery at a more convenient place.
I could see the entrance of the field from the grain store at the farm, as I was about to stop the leading combine harevester, I saw the offending car disappear up the road driving away, so they entered the field unhindered.


Soon the barley was being trailered back from that field, having weighed the first trailer, it was tipped into a 6  inch auger that shifted about 20 tons per hour and blew the grain into a 10 ft high stack. I saw a flash of colour through the stream of grain from the top of the auger, fearing a contaminant I banged the emergency switch just as a pair of knickers hit the slope of the grain and slowly descended the pile to my feet.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 11:25:59, 17/11/17
I was amazed and surprised to see an interview on television some months ago, where children were asked had they ever seen a sheep or cow.


According to the last UK census, only a tiny 17% of the Uks 65million population live in the rural countryside, the rest live near or in the major cities, so possibly millions of uk residents have never seen a beach, mountain or running stream from a lofty mountain peak.

I cannot remember what part of the country this school group were from, but their eyes were on stalks when they were shown a video of a beautiful pastoral country scene, full of these mysterious creatures.

The majority of them had only seen pictures of the animals, and they had simply no idea where our daily pinta came from, or the wool of their school jumpers.


There are a huge number of adults who share a similar perspective on our countryside, many of them have never seen a mountain, and when they see them for the first time, they do not know how to behave when their amongst their splendour.


The dropping of litter, allowing their dogs to run wild amongst sheep, parking in the most inappropriate places.

Is it any wonder, that adults behave in a certain disrespectful manner when visiting the countryside, most of them have no comprehension of a farmers hectic and busy schedule.

They see the stunning scenery, and park their car in the most opportune location.

When they return to see their car badly damaged, they rightfully get extremely angry.

What right has anyone got to destroy my property.

The farmer responsible, is just another member of the public, and few of the visitors can understand his way of life.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: tonyk on 16:29:43, 17/11/17
There is no way you would have got a fire engine down the road so all the drivers of those cars were that parked illegally should be charged with obstruction.They can claim for any damages on their insurance.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Strider on 16:45:15, 17/11/17
If your going to use Remembrance day as an excuse, why weren't the owners of these vehicles in Church or a remembrance parade somewhere

There's a service held on Great Gable, as per the link in the first post.

I have a lot of sympathy for the farmer, the drivers were inconsiderate, but by doing this he's made himself the villain.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Skip on 11:35:23, 18/11/17
Sure the damage is excessive but justified once the level of frequency and frustration is taken into account.
Sorry, run that past us again. If someone is 'frustrated' on more than one occasion they are justified in criminal damage? So much for the rule of law.

Of course visitors should park considerately on public highways. But failure to do so does not confer on other road users the right to trash cars.

... the drivers were inconsiderate, but by doing this he's made himself the villain.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 11:47:59, 18/11/17
I am sure you would think differently, if somebody blocked the driveway to your home for several hours, just to go shopping.
Its happened several times over the years, to my friends, who live on Anglesea, and all you get from the owners on their return, is sorry, we did not realise we were blocking your access, when it was blatantly obvious they were in the wrong.

They simply do not care, and because parking is at a premium during the busy summer months, they park where they want, regardless of the inconvenience to residents.

No farmer would cause such wilful damage to several vehicles unless the situation of poor parking was such an issue to his lively hood.


The damage to the rear of the Touring BMW, is substantial, obviously caused by someone in great anger, not by a casual farmer failing to stop, because his vehicle is bigger than yours, and its best you give him right of way.

Farmers regularly have to drive large vehicles up narrow roads, to gain access to their properties,  Remembrance day or not, the cars were parked needlessly blocking his access .


Or do we expect him to wait quietly and patiently for several hours, for the motorists to return to their vehicles.


I have no sympathy for them at all, serves them right for blocking a narrow road, they will learn by their costly mistake.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: phil1960 on 11:54:03, 18/11/17
DA - no one is contesting that the drivers were in the wrong by parking in an inconsiderate manner. I like most people on this forum I suspect are sympathetic towards farmers, but dress it up how you like, the damage caused cannot be justified.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 12:04:41, 18/11/17
Until you have experienced the constant nuisance of annual summer traffic, blocking access to your home, then we cannot really argue the case of wanton criminal damage.
I have no sympathy with the owners of the vehicles, only for the farmer, who has to constantly live with farming in such a beautiful part of the country, and the problems its represents.

Whether its the way ive been brought up, or just my intelligence, ive never parked anywhere where access is restricted, just incase someone does drive a bit too close to my car and causes damage.

One poorly parked vehicle maybe, but dozens of cars parked in a terribly narrow access road, what do they expect for the consequences of their foolish actions, a quiet and timid farmer patiently waiting several hours for their return.


Its obviously a recurring problem for this land owner, a problem that the National Park does not want to confront, simply because the millions of walkers using the fells, are more important financially than the plight of a lone farmer.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: phil1960 on 12:37:32, 18/11/17
Hmm! Your intellect and/or upbringing let you down to condone such damage, but hey let’s agree to disagree. At Porth y parc car park for sugar loaf a while back, I was returning with my other half and our dog after a walk. The local farmer passed us and waved, we waved back, five minutes later he was in the car park fuming that two cars had parked making his access awkward, we chatted as he took photos and left pre printed notes on their windscreen, well done farmer. I personally have respect for the countryside and those that live and work in it and that has to work both ways.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Percy on 14:35:15, 18/11/17
It’s an offence under the 1980 Highways act to wilfully obstruct the road. Parking is wilful, breaking down isn’t. If it stops someone going about their business then I have little or no sympathy with them. Tough.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: tonyk on 14:45:38, 18/11/17
Its hard to say who is to blame.Okay,Driver A pulls up and parks on the verge,the otherside of the road is clear of vehicles so he is not causing an obstruction.Driver A then goes off on his walk whilst Driver B pulls up and parks opposite him causing an obstruction.Driver A returns to his car and finds it damaged by a farm vehicle that was having difficulty getting through the gap.So who is to blame,Driver A who parked legally,Driver B who parked without any consideration to other road users,or the farmer who for some reason had difficulty in judging the size of his vehicle.I would say its Driver B and the farmer whilst Driver A  is the real victim.In the real situation Driver B's car might have been damaged but I am just pointing out that not all of the drivers were being inconsiderate.I suppose it comes down to the authorities/organisers failing to put parking controls in place for the event.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: barewirewalker on 12:56:49, 19/11/17
Is the landowner of the adjacent land blameless? One of the strongest feelings I got from reading through the CLA's national policy was the total absence of any awareness that the owners of land are part of a wider community, it was packed full of anecdotal grievances but did not suggest that a landowner should be aware how the occupation of a large part of countryside affects the community as a whole. The proximity to a right of way and major access point at a time of year that an event was likely to happen is likely to have been foreseen. To have made provision for temporary off road parking in a field was a possibility.


Walkers by and large strictly adhere to a countryside code that has been around for years and yet never have the CLA suggested that their members should behave in a proactive and hospitable way.


If you divide the agricultural and property interests, whereas the interruption of a days farmwork is understandably hindered by totally inconsiderate behavior by the car owners, the blind arrogance of a property owner to a foreseeable civil event could be contributory.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Ridge on 14:03:42, 19/11/17
It is not only farmers.
We live on a narrow road opposite a secondary school, usually it is very quiet but twice a day, on Saturday mornings and some evenings and weekends it is chaos and sometimes becomes completely grid locked. There would certainly be no chance of a fire engine getting through.
We do moan about it obviously, particularly the school trips with coaches and parents cars at 3.00am, but we also plan our lives round it.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 17:28:27, 25/11/17
My friends just outside Benllech on Anglesea, dread the arrival of summer traffic, simply because its a regular occurrence that visitors desperate to park, block their entire driveway.
Goodness knows what would happen in an emergency.
The police have been involved several times, when it was necessary for them to gain access to their driveway.

The owners of the vehicles, sometimes become hostile when confronted with their unacceptable parking, but the majority, just get in their cars and drive away quickly, wanting to avoid confrontation.

Few, if any of us on this forum can envisage what the constant disruption to a farmers lively hood, sellfish parking entails.

Park sensibly, and respectfully, is that too much to ask.
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Wurz on 19:22:52, 27/11/17
Entirely the farmers fault.  If he can't get through he should contact the police and the council.  Just because he can't get through gives him no right to ram through in his tractor.  He's undoubtedly local and dislikes the hordes of tourists that invade his land all the time.  Well unfortunately for him that's part and parcel of where he lives and works. 
Title: Re: Parking and farmers
Post by: Penygadair on 19:52:42, 27/11/17
If he can't get through he should contact the police and the council.


Hours later the police turn up and then start trying to find a tow truck to remove the cars. Months later the council are still debating the subject. Meanwhile the farmer is prevented from earning a living.