Vanishing pubs

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

The Cadwgan, is more of a glorified B&B than a stand alone country pub.
It has bar facilities that are open to the public, as well as accommodation for tourists, and a typical restaurant, but its not your typical stand alone pub.
Its also slightly off the beaten track, so the casual visitor passing through will easily miss it, but Dyffryn is lacking in your tiny welcoming pub.
When the holiday season comes to an abrupt end, in late September, Dyffryn and its neighbouring villages become deathly quiet.

This is the Dyffryn i prefer, and chose to live in.

[ninthace]

When I was house hunting in Cumbria I stopped off in a Pennine village  for a lunchtime pint and a bite to eat. Both pubs in the village appeared to be closed so I popped into the shop the ask when the pub opened: "Easter" was the brief reply.

[Innominate Man]

The most interesting pub, ive visited in the whole of Wales, is the Skirrid inn, on the way towards Llanthony, near Abergavenny.

Off topic but isn't ' Skirrid' the name of a local hill close to Abergavenny ?
If it's the one I'm thinking of I recall it was to the East of Sugarloaf, from the top of which it looked small but dramatic in shape. I made a note to climb it one day.

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

That's right, there is a mountain called the Skirrid just outside Abergavenny.
The Skirrid inn, has obviously taken its name from its close proximity to the mountain.

[barewirewalker]

Tuesday of last week, i visited the famous Drovers Arms in Rhewl, just outside Ruthin.
It has an amazing history, right back to the very early 1700s on the Drovers herding their cattle, sheep, pigs and occasional geese, towards the Shrewsbury area, and on towards England, there is still a shoeing enclosure in the field, behind the pub.
The population of this area of Denbigshire, is only around 1500 or so , resulting in the pub being closed on both Monday's and Tuesday's.
When they realised i had made a special journey, with very rare Welsh Droving related banknotes, they gladly let me inside, so they could photograph them, as they only had photocopies on their wall.
I suppose the majority of pubs that are closing, are the ones in tiny rural areas, with very small populations.

I heard an interesting talk by Idris Evans a few years ago, Rhewl was directly online for the Anglesea to London drove, many sections of that route went over hill and dale, therefore crossing and partially using the roads that are today's highway. Something I do not read in commentary on off road access is destination and purpose of routes.


This topic makes me think;
                                                          LOST PUBS : LOST WAYS ? ?
There is a footpath marked on the 1880's map of Alberbury, Shropshire, which clearly leads to a pub (even the back door perhaps), Clearly a destination or even starting point depending on state of intoxication. Question is; was this an accepted way into the village and for how many, because their are several routes like the upper branches of a tree, growing out in an easterly direction where the compilers of our Definitive Map failed to record.


How far did people walk to a pub, a center for hospitality on a path of travel, is a shortcut of yesteryear actually a pointer of very much long routes.


What is the point of resurrecting a long lost way to a forgotten pub, we cannot say how the leisure industry will grow, but I see tea/coffee shops opening up where pubs have been closed, even supporting small grocery outlets that cannot survive competing against supermarkets in nearby towns.

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

The best book for you to get hold of, is "the Drovers Roads of Wales"  by Fay Godwin and Shierley Toulson.
Its been out of print for many years, but its not that difficult to get hold of, and there's a few copies on ebay, and is good value, and an interesting read, for the social history of the areas.

The book gives the reader a very detailed analysis of all the major Droving routes in Wales, and is especially good for the Gwynedd and Denbighshire areas.

The Drovers Arms in Rhewl, has a shoeing enclosure behind it, and Denbigh and Ruthin were very important markets for the sale of cattle in the late 19C.

[Penygadair]

"Roads and Trackways of North Wales" by Prevett is IMO a far better read and avoids much of the inaccuracy of the Toulson book.
Far better in depth research and less wild guesstimation.

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

Cheers for the recommendation.
Ive collected just about every publication on the Drovers of Wales and further afield, well over fifteen books, and just about all of them are sadly out of print.
Thank you for bringing Mr Prevett's book to my attention, i cannot think of why this book has escaped my search.
The book was published in 2008, which compared to most of my other books, is fairly recently.

Muppets on ebay, are asking over £40 for a second hand copy, but with the powers of the internet, ive managed to find one for £20, and its in almost new condition.

I am really looking forward to read it, and then i may find it does offer a different interpretation to Shierley Toulson.

Thank you once again for the book info, i would never have known about its existence, and as its been out of print some time, it would have become even harder to locate.

[Penygadair]

D.A. I bought both books from Amazon in new condition in 2014. The Toulson was £1.95 and the Prevett £12.00


I hope you enjoy the latter. I found it particularly interesting as far as the drove roads in our specific area are concerned.

[Penygadair]

 D.A  We seem to share an interest in the drove roads and their inns. I was saddened to see that the old drove inn at Bethel on the A494 west of Bala had recently been partially demolished and rebuilt. Fortunately the incongrously named Cann Office Hotel on the A458 at Llangadfan survives - some 700 yrars since it was originally a drove inn. I assume you know the story of how it got its name?


I've also taken an interest in drove road lodging houses. The word Llety denoting the original use. Llety Llloegr (lodging house for England) at Pont Fadog on the western drove road in your back yard has now lost its name plaque. Just hope the new owners don't now call it "Dunworking" Llety Husmon (The husbandman's lodging house) south of Llanelltyd ia another interesting example.

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

Unless you already have it, get hold of Richard Moore Colyers, "The Welsh Cattle Drovers".
Mr Colyer was one of the main history lecturers in Aberystwyth Uni, and his book has got to be the finest publication on the subject, so good in fact, that just about every recent publication has used it as reference material.

[rural roamer]

While walking Offa's Dyke we stayed in Bodfari and ate at the recently reopened Dinorben Arms.  Apparently it had been closed years ago and left to rack and ruin. it has been taken over by a chain and it is now the largest pub I have ever been in, it's massive, especially for such a small village. It has been done up very well and has about 3 outside terraces, but wouldn't be my first choice of pub as it is now too large and impersonal. Even though it's so big we had trouble getting a table, people from Chester and even Liverpool remember it and are travelling there to eat.  I expect the novelty will wear off.   The food was good though. But as it was the only place to eat we should be lucky it's there.  The last thing you want to do on a LDW is get a taxi to another village/ town to eat. 

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

The food has to be exceptional, for these types of pubs to survive.
If the food is good, the clientele will certainly support it, and by the looks of it, customers are willing to travel.

[John Walker]

Yes, it does seem as if pubs that provide good food can survive better than others but I guess the pub still needs to be somewhere near a reasonably sized village or town?  I agree with Rural Roamer that size matters and the best pubs aren't usually the biggest ones  .  There was an interesting article in the Guardian a few days ago about community pubs (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jul/07/community-groups-call-time-on-the-demise-of-the-british-pub).  Perhaps an expanded community pub sector is the best hope for us pub-loving walkers?


PS I like tea shops too!

[Dyffryn Ardudwy]

If your anywhere near Aberffraw on Anglesey, visit the Llys Llewelyn tearooms.
Forget their basic decor, and rural location, because their home cooked food is amongst the best on the island.
Their apple pie and cream is stuff of dreams, and it has to be good to justify my regular trip from Dyffryn.
Very friendly staff, smack bang next door to the coastal path, and incredible food, at more than affordable prices.