Walking Forum
Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: bricam2096 on 13:14:44, 06/03/19
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As a few of us are making videos of our walks and posting them here, I was wondering what you want to see on the finished video. Is it about the scenery around as you walk, the actual trail ahead of you as you move to give you a sense of doing the walk or do you prefer the TV approach where we drive 10/20 miles away from the route to visit some butter museum etc which has nothing to do with the actual walk? :D :D :D
Obviously I joke about the last bit but it winds me up watching these trail walks on TV to see presenters miles off the trail filming irrelevant material.
I have walks lined up and will be filming them so would like to do them in a way fellow walkers would want to see them O0
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I think the thing is to make the videos in the way you want to. But as you've asked for people's thoughts, I'll say that it's nice to have a mixture of panning the scenery and filming as you walk. I like a bit of commentary too. I looked at your videos
http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=38081.0 (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=38081.0http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=38090.0)
http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=38090.0
and I found the way the cuts were done a little distracting but you've got some superb footage and one really gets a feel for the landscape and a sense of doing the walk :)
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and I found the way the cuts were done a little distracting but you've got some superb footage and one really gets a feel for the landscape and a sense of doing the walk :)
I've ordered a video editing program so hopefully I can improve my videos. I've just been using an easy (and free) one and a bit of a beginner so basically just been joining clips together :D
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By asking the questions I feel that you are making the videos to please other people Bricam
Personally I make videos for myself, I enjoy making them, they are a video diary of our adventures,
and i post them on here for others to watch if they want to,
And judging by the amount of views they get people enjoy watching them,
However, most people cant be arsed posting a comment unless it's to criticise something,
If i were you i would think about what "YOU" want in the video, and why you are making them,
That way you will be able to answer your own questions O0
If I spend say 10 hours editing a video, only to get a couple of comments it can have a demoralizing
Effect, I mean, how long does it take to post a comment or simply give it the thumbs up,
However I remind myself why I'm actually making the video, and for me that's what's important :)
Good luck with it O0
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You are tempting me to offer the 'Benny Hill' suggestion of what I want to see in a hiking video!
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By asking the questions I feel that you are making the videos to please other people Bricam
Personally I make videos for myself, I enjoy making them, they are a video diary of our adventures,
and i post them on here for others to watch if they want to,
And judging by the amount of views they get people enjoy watching them,
I make the videos for myself but also for friends, the forums and people who visit my website. Many of my walks have been done after looking at trip reports ( including yours and Aprils) or Youtube videos so hopefully mine might have the same effect.
Before I set off on a Long Distance Walk I usually watch videos of it on Youtube and it makes me look even more forward to it. :)
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For me it is less about what you show, and more about other stuff.
Too many of these videos are 'reference free', so you get lots of nice pictures of mountains, hills and rivers, but so what? You need you in the video, or a bike or a canoe or a rucksack etc.
Secondly, nice smooth camera work. Bumpy hand held camera work can make someone feel almost sick with all the jerking and wobbling. This is a real biggy with amateur videos of adventures.
Thirdly, the sound. Get an external microphone and muffle it! Especially if you are going to give a running commentary over the video in real time.
Lastly, remember, we don't have your memory of the walk, so make it interesting. Watching you walk along a grassy hill is bloody boring if you don't happen to have the memory of the eagle screeching in the background, or the distant sight of a waterfall!
Hope that helps
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As long as theres scenery, thats the main thing. Panoramas are fine by me. Though without quick "cutting" preferably.
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I've not had a chance to catch your vids or reports as yet bricam, I will try tonight :)
I watch a lot of vids on you tube of walks and wild camps from various people. They all have different styles, some with a lot of talking, some with not much, some with a lot of beer drinking (Andy Wardle :D) but most have a few pans, a bit of scenery, a bit of the walk, a bit of the camping pitch, it doesn't matter that much to me what the video style is like. I would never be over critical of anyone's video, unlike some people :D. I have never made a video myself but I know how difficult they are to do and how long it takes to edit them.
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I have just watched your Southern Upland video 1, and the main thing is that camera wobble. It's sort of always there, very slight, and is really easily fixed with a tripod, or even a simple adaptor on a walking pole if you use them.
And if I am being brutal, keep it short and snappy. You were there, we weren't. Over 7 minutes of that music had me switching off after about 3. A six hour walk should be a 3 minute video!
Here is a neat example of 16 hours reduced to 4 minutes!
https://www.alastairhumphreys.com/microadventure-3-sleep-hill/ (https://www.alastairhumphreys.com/microadventure-3-sleep-hill/)
I have to make videos for part of my job, we had some training from an ex-BBC film journalist and it was such an eye opener. He was telling us that they used to have cameras on either side of a football pitch back in the day for better coverage, which seems totally logical. The effect though, is that when you switch cameras you switch the direction of play, so the red team are shooting right to left, switch cameras and they are now shooting left to right, switch back and they right to left again!
Little things I hadn't even thought about suddenly became blindingly bloody obvious. Like starting a shot out of focus then focusing is more effective than starting in focus from a distance and zooming in. Build the shot properly 2/3:1/3, so never have the subject of your shot in the middle, have it 1/3 in, up, down, across etc. If you can't see it properly, just don't have it there! Have a reference, so not just a mountain, have a mountain and something, to give the mountain a sense of scale and awe. Match the narration to the video, so if you say bird, have a picture of a bird, not a picture of a waterfall.
Hmmm, I hope you don't think I am being hyper-critical! Sorry if you do :-[
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I don't watch many walking videos because you have to trawl through such a lot to find anything of interest. Another hill, another field, another stile, another lane, all look pretty much the same to me.
I have found 'Cruising the Cut', a chap called David who sold up, chucked his job and bought a narrow boat. His videos are a good example of clear and concise, and have lots of useful information and nice views. He has made a couple of hundred, and now youtube is part of his freelance work.
Take a look for ideas, in my opinion he has got it about right.
https://cruisingthecut.co.uk/
ilona
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A six hour walk should be a 3 minute video!
Is this written in stone somewhere?
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Maggot
It would be interesting to see some of your walking videos posted on the forum for reference, :)
Ah just noticed the link
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As others have already said, do it for yourself. Myself I just stick to taking the odd photos on my mobile or short video clips, but I do enjoy watching videos on "youtube" etc. I've had loads of inspiration watching some of these, a couple of contributors I follow keenly, because they do numerous in the Peak District, which is my closeby and my very frequent haunt, are Dean Read and a guy more my age named Patrick Dickenson. Apart from walks and wildcamps their videos contain great pieces of info on many various things. In fact when I happen to be watching any of their vids, the wife (a non walker) very often watches with me.
So do your own thing, you will always get an audience, keep up the good work
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It would be interesting to see some of your walking videos posted on the forum for reference, :)
Ah just noticed the link
Are these your vids in the link Maggot?
I started watching the top one. A minute in and all I have seen so far is a bloke at a desk talking about going out on the hill and a few other people talking about going out on the hill? Where is the walking/scenery stuff?
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Is this written in stone somewhere?
It should be.
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Are these your vids in the link Maggot?
I started watching the top one. A minute in and all I have seen so far is a bloke at a desk talking about going out on the hill and a few other people talking about going out on the hill? Where is the walking/scenery stuff?
Hey, don't take my comments so literally.
That isn't a video I produced, but it does show the key elements of a decent video of something outdoorsy.
it has a nice story to it, a beginning a middle and an end. It has a mixture of narration, interview and backing track, the camera is nice and steady and it is nice and brief.
The OP has asked what we would like in a report video, I am being very specific for him, in an attempt to be helpful. There are two reasons to produce these videos, because you want to for you, or because you want other people to watch them. If they are for you, who cares what they look like.....they are for you. If they are for other people, then you need to park your ego. The internet is a brutal place!
If you look at Brian's videos on the Scottish coast to coast walk there is a message. The videos run top to bottom, so most people would view them 1, 2, 3 top to bottom. The top one has 199 views, the middle one has 59, the bottom one has 48. If they were all worth watching each would have had 199, but 3/4 of the people who watched number one didn't move on. I would say that is a message. But like I say, if they are just for your own viewing, who cares?
I am really not being harsh here, I would not expect Brian to invest in a 4kUltraHD drone, and a £10,000 camera. Most things can be fixed with something from a pound shop, think selfie-stick and gaffa tape, or just rest the camera on a wall. Instead of holding your camera in your outstretched arms, tuck them into your hips to make a steady platform.
But genuinely, if you are doing this all for you, just really enjoy doing it and keep on learning. You aren't trying do FreeSolo, you are trying to do a few minutes of fun. Enjoy it and learning the process O0
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I was hoping for a topic like this. I have a 4k gopro myself and am considering getting a mount to make some of these, too. For me, these are things I much prefer:
- Minimalism. I don't want a 15 second 'beginning sequence', if you have a 'brand' then a couple of seconds showing your channel name is fine.
- Narration. If you're explaining something keep it concise, but if you're passionate about it then this can be something which really adds to the video. Overall some people really over-do this and ramble all video.
- Captions and subtitles. Keep these semi-opaque so they don't detract from the video, but put as much information as you want in to these bits. Some people might want to know that 300 years ago this route was used for 'X'.
- Background music. This can make or break a video of beautiful scenery, I quite like low-key videos with relaxing music and high quality videos. Don't be afraid to let the music play out and to linger on a long shot if you think it is beautiful.
- Timelapses. Yes they are a pain to set up sometimes, but having a dawn/dusk/stars timelapse can be beautiful and add a lot to the video. I also especially think when you make camp and assemble your tent, timelapse it! People are interested in gear and tents in general, it can be nice to see 'how easy is it to set up in that weather?' and have a cool 30 second sequence of someone putting a tent up with music playing over the top.
- Mounts. Hiking pole mounts seem the most versatile since you can stick it in the ground and film yourself, but mini-tripods (the monkeypods?) which you can put on the ground are light and lets you become the subject - there's something peaceful about watching a trip report showing people cooking, enjoying the evening. If it is a day walk, then a little clip of you filmed from behind enjoying a beautiful view ups the cinematography massively.
- It isn't about gear. As long as the camera isn't hugely shaking around, you can film it on any mini gopro style camera (even iPhones these days are v good for video filming). If you have a drone and can do some amazing camp shots in the evening? Awesome! But if you don't, don't worry about it.
- Don't overdo the transitions. Fade to black (for a time change) and simple cuts are hard to detect and don't detract from the video. Everything else (wipes, tears, dissolves etc) look like someone just wanted to use a random transition, it doesn't add to the watching experience.
- Let the music play out. It's a hiking video not a music video, let the mind linger on certain places, let you think about the route and the space, make the music an accessory rather than the main player. Put pauses between pieces of music if it's a longer video, you don't constantly need crashing drums. Embrace silence, especially when you're using evening or morning shots at camp.
- Wind noise. It sounds rubbish, sure you can include a clip if it's blowing a gale and you want to get that across to the viewer - but a monologue to the camera in the middle of a gale with full wind noise just doesn't sound great. I'd rather you subtitle what you say, reduce the spoken volume a little and make it not sound dreadful.
- For music, keep it playing but play with the levels. Make it so it isn't being noticed but the volume slowly increases to emphasise the views and journey. If you're speaking, reduce it but keep it playing at a low level.
For an example, something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D47bmPFUbo is what I would consider right up there.
There is also a guy who does most of his trip reports from Scotland who has much more time in front of the camera, but still relies on the camera to tell the story. https://www.youtube.com/user/wilkiemurray
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I have just watched your Southern Upland video 1, and the main thing is that camera wobble. It's sort of always there, very slight, and is really easily fixed with a tripod, or even a simple adaptor on a walking pole if you use them.
And if I am being brutal, keep it short and snappy. You were there, we weren't. Over 7 minutes of that music had me switching off after about 3. A six hour walk should be a 3 minute video!
Hmmm, I hope you don't think I am being hyper-critical! Sorry if you do :-[
All comments are welcome from you and the other members. It's interesting reading so far.
My Southern Upland Way videos were probably not the best ones to choose but I agree about them. Since then I've bought a much better camera with better stabilization. Each of my 3 SUW videos contained 4 walking days which I tried to whittle down to make a more manageable size time-wise rather than one long video or 12 day videos. It was also the first time I'd tried music on it, basically to see how I did it and to make a change from normal wind noise or feet plodding on tracks and paths.
I've never really fancied narrating any of the videos, probably because I don't like the sound of my own voice :D so use subtitles so people can read what they are looking at rather than trying to understand my accent. ;D ;D ;D
I'm not claiming to be a Pro, I just want to edit some video clips together to make a fairly decent video that I can look back in years to come or to share with others and hopefully they will like them too O0
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All comments are welcome from you and the other members. It's interesting reading so far.
My Southern Upland Way videos were probably not the best ones to choose but I agree about them. Since then I've bought a much better camera with better stabilization. Each of my 3 SUW videos contained 4 walking days which I tried to whittle down to make a more manageable size time-wise rather than one long video or 12 day videos. It was also the first time I'd tried music on it, basically to see how I did it and to make a change from normal wind noise or feet plodding on tracks and paths.
I've never really fancied narrating any of the videos, probably because I don't like the sound of my own voice :D so use subtitles so people can read what they are looking at rather than trying to understand my accent. ;D ;D ;D
I'm not claiming to be a Pro, I just want to edit some video clips together to make a fairly decent video that I can look back in years to come or to share with others and hopefully they will like them too O0
I don't think anyone likes the sound of their own voice on a video. But hey, it's your voice, embrace it. Watch the BBC, it is full of accents and Regional voices now, no more Mr Chumley-Warner voices. Honestly, other people do not receive your voice the way you do.
And just keep going with the videos, they will evolve and you enjoy doing them. That's about it really!
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Some good advice there from Maggot and forgotmyownpassword.
Though its up to you about the style, quicker cuts or longer paced, etc. Personally I switch off if there is little variation, walk, hill, walk, hill can get a bit samey and can lack context. Give talking on cam a go, or you can talk on cam and just use the audio overlaid on the other footage if you are a bit self-conscious.
I try and go for a bit of pace, so no 4 minute monologues of a talking head in the car driving to the hills for me. Saying that, I watch Adventure Archives videos and they are usually go for over an hour.
Audio is a big one for me, people will watch poor quality video with good audio, but will generally not watch superb footage with awful audio.
And its all about learning too. Just do your thing and enjoy it.
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And one thing that I was told by someone who does it for a living was 'be prepared to kill your favourites', by that they mean if the clip doesn't fit or goes on too long, cut it out, even if its amazing footage. I've done that with long drone shots, they looked great (in my mind ;D ) but had to cut it down cause it just didn't fit.
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Are these your vids in the link Maggot?
I started watching the top one. A minute in and all I have seen so far is a bloke at a desk talking about going out on the hill and a few other people talking about going out on the hill? Where is the walking/scenery stuff?
Have you ever watched a film? The main subject of the film is rarely the opening shot, think James Bond. You get a bit of background to what is going to happen, then you get the credits, then you get the film. Titanic doesn't sink in the first two minutes of the blockbusting film, that would be really boring. Instead you meet the characters which makes the film interesting. Bodyguard, you don't meet Kevin Costner for ages, but the film is named after him. And Baby doesn't start in the corner.
In walking videos you tend to get the opening shot of a hill, followed by some more hills, then a river, and then a footpath and some feet and another hill then a tent. Much more interesting would be a shot of the walker getting ready, lacing his boots, introducing himself.
"Hi, I am April. Following my leg transplant I took up walking and it changed my life. I am now 32 stone lighter, I had to learn to read in colour so I could handle maps, and my vegan dog accompanies me everywhere. I have walked all over England, but this is the first time I have been to Scotland, as I am scared of the locals and catching diabetes from one of them. But why not join me as I walk coast to coast with my small pack containing only the essentials, but we can discuss my tent when I camp tonight and my waterproofs when it starts raining. So let's head over this small bridge, which was built in 1297 by the English when we first kicked their sorry Scottish butts. It has become famous as the Bridge of Teddy after King Edward who led the invasion, the bridge marks the start of our walk, I hope you enjoy watching this short video of day one, and remember to tune back in to the following videos in this series as I make my way all the way from the Irish to the North seas"
If anyone wants to use that, feel free ;D
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I watch quite a few videos of people walking in Lapland, because that's where I like walking. It's a long way away, to get there you have to go on airplanes, motorways, trains and roads, I know that but I don't need to see it. There are so many 20 minute videos that show 10 or more minutes of boring c**p just getting there. You can over do the story telling.
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I watch quite a few videos of people walking in Lapland, because that's where I like walking. It's a long way away, to get there you have to go on airplanes, motorways, trains and roads, I know that but I don't need to see it. There are so many 20 minute videos that show 10 or more minutes of boring c**p just getting there. You can over do the story telling.
I absolutely agree you can overdo it, but a 20 minute video of someone walking in the snow is also boring. My point is that the 'story' should give the video context. I could show you a 20 minute of someone walking in snow and you would not have the slightest clue of where it was. If I add in a 10 second clip of Rovaniemi baggage reclaim you will say 'blimey, I remember that, it's where I left my coffee on the bin and someone nicked it' Then a 10 second snippet of the bridge out of town as you head north and you will think 'oh, if only if it was clearer when we went I would have seen that view, i must remember to ring Tommi and arrange a return journey', then as I set off on the walk you see the hut you left etc etc. Otherwise it is some feet in the snow and no personal, emotional connection to it.
But hey, it's individual choice. I am really not having a pop at anyone here, just offering some advice, and as I said earlier, if it is more just as a travel memory for yourself, then do what you like to watch and stuff everyone else. If it is for 'the public', give it some thought and make a story so people are interested and want more. Listen to what roughyed said, be brutal, if it doesn't need to be there, but you like it, get rid. If it does need to be there, but you don't like it, stick it in!
Then approach Red Bull and Osprey and Berghaus, get sponsored and watch the money and free kit come rolling in O0
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it has a nice story to it, a beginning a middle and an end. It has a mixture of narration, interview and backing track, the camera is nice and steady and it is nice and brief.
I switched it off after the first minute, I found the video a bit boring and didn't watch all of it.
The internet is a brutal place!
You are right, it does have a few sad trolls about
Have you ever watched a film? The main subject of the film is rarely the opening shot, think James Bond. You get a bit of background to what is going to happen, then you get the credits, then you get the film.
Is this not a bit OTT for someone just wanting to film their walk or camp for a bit of fun? I doubt anyone is trying to be David Lean on here.
Hi, I am April. Following my leg transplant I took up walking and it changed my life.
I didn't realise it was so obvious ;)
Bricam, I'm pleased that you appreciate all the comments people have made. I doubt I will ever try my hand at videos if people are expecting them to be so professionally made.
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I switched it off after the first minute, I found the video a bit boring and didn't watch all of it.
You are right, it does have a few sad trolls about
Is this not a bit OTT for someone just wanting to film their walk or camp for a bit of fun? I doubt anyone is trying to be David Lean on here.
I didn't realise it was so obvious ;)
Bricam, I'm pleased that you appreciate all the comments people have made. I doubt I will ever try my hand at videos if people are expecting them to be so professionally made.
If someone comes on to a forum, and asks for advice, then why are you taking umbrage on their behalf?
I certainly haven't said that everything should be professionally produced, in fact quite the opposite. I have said several times, if it's just for you, who cares (apart from you) what it looks or sounds like, it's just another way to store a memory. If you want more people to look at it, then you will probably have to make changes, that's it really. Nothing rude or offensive, just simply some very specific advice.
You didn't enjoy the video I linked to because you thought it was boring, we don't all like the same thing, no problem, no need for thinly veiled silly little digs. But with all of these videos the principles of brevity, steady camera work, consistent sound level, and a sensible 'story' flow remain. One also needs to remember that you are competing with an internet of stuff, even when Bricam's video was being played to me I was being shown a dozen other videos that Youtube thinks I would find interesting. Unfortunately we are now living in a world where, some research would suggest, our maximum attention is measured in a few minutes, catch your attention or you are off. As is brilliantly evidenced by your own reaction to the link I provided.
Why not give it a go.
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You are right, it does have a few sad trolls about
I didn't realise it was so obvious ;)
Yep you are correct, April. The fact that your name was used in a discriminatory fashion is enough proof for me that we have a real live troll on the forum. Likes to give but is strangely defensive about the receive.
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Yep you are correct, April. The fact that your name was used in a discriminatory fashion is enough proof for me that we have a real live troll on the forum. Likes to give but is strangely defensive about the receive.
::)
Really? When have I been defensive?
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Maggot you do come across as very very direct, and some may suggest you want to stir things up. It would be nice if, instead of always shouting about how much you know about kit etc , you posted a trip report or two.
Paul
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Maggot you do come across as very very direct, and some may suggest you want to stir things up. It would be nice if, instead of always shouting about how much you know about kit etc , you posted a trip report or two.
Paul
Let's look at this. Someone asked a specific question. I have given some very specific answers. I haven't said "yours are rubbish" or "you should give up"
Like others I have been very clear about suggestions that I would like to see in videos.
Why beat around the bush? I don't shout about stuff i know, but yes I am willing to challenge viewpoints.
As for making a report, I actually suggested we do that earlier this morning :o
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Well I liked the Alastair Humphreys vid. But then again I'm biased as I know a few people in it...!
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Personally, I wouldn't get too caught up with 'story' in a trip report style video. If you want an award winning vid, or be classed as best in the youtube hiking field, then yes you will need a story (the heroes journey, jeopardy, etc) but for 99% of us, it will probably get in the way!
The Humphreys microadventure vid had a 'story' because thats what the video was designed to do, it was to show that you can go out 5pm to 9am and get some time outdoors around work. He had a list of shots he would of wanted and an idea of what the video would be before even going out.
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Let's look at this. Someone asked a specific question. I have given some very specific answers. I haven't said "yours are rubbish" or "you should give up"
Like others I have been very clear about suggestions that I would like to see in videos.
Why beat around the bush? I don't shout about stuff i know, but yes I am willing to challenge viewpoints.
As for making a report, I actually suggested we do that earlier this morning :o
Well get on and do one, then O0
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Reading this thread (been a busy week, just catching up) - not sure what Maggot said which is rubbing people the wrong way?
The question was 'what would you want to see?', so by its very nature you end up with a wish list. People are fully aware there are limitations behind getting all this done, principally time, editorial and photography skills, and actual motivation to do so. For what it's worth, I really enjoy all the videos and trip reports posted here and never think 'oh if only they did x it'd be so much better' - I just like people sharing their love for the outdoors in a way which makes them happy.
Brian's original horse-shoe post was compelling and he's really not very far from upping the quality for v little effort, which I guess is why he asked. I wouldn't worry about the expectations at all, personally when I click a link I expect nothing - if it's in HD or above I'm immediately happy with some pretty scenery, the audio needs to be obnoxious for it to bother. Think most are the same? You understand you're getting a home movie of sorts.
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Only made a few so far, but I've found myself going towards more fun, joking around, having 'things to see'. IveIalways liked 'things' on walks like prehistoric monuments or something. I never found the idea of marching full speed and missing everything around you at all interesting. Seems people just want to walk further and faster nowdays.
I feel theres too many videos which are way too serious and dull. Walking can be fun and uplifting and I will be trying to show that more now.
Getting the sound right is definitely the hard, but important part.