Walking Forum
Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: gunwharfman on 17:01:20, 03/03/19
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I'm sitting in front of my PC, horrible wet and windy outside and thinking, can I save even more carry weight? I'm stuck with the weight of my rucksack, my sleeping quilt, tent, footprint, mattress and a few other but smaller items and water so where could I save?
I stopped using my 'heavy' Paramo Alta 2 and waterproof trousers and moved to my single skin Marmot Precip and rain skirt and now have almost have stepped using using them in favour of my Poncho. For me, still not good enough.
I would like to buy a long length lightweight waterproof coat (all other waterproof items could be then left at home, except for my Lowe peaked cap) but at the moment the only one I can find, is on the Rohan site, but it costs £250! I'm just not prepared to pay out such a sum for one item.
I would like the coat to have buttons, or a zip only down to my waist. A long zip would hinder me whilst trying to step over boulders and so on. It needs to be made of a good waterproof material, the type that modern hiking jackets are already made from. I want long sleeves but not to be elasticated at the wrists. It needs a hood, obviously a couple of well placed pockets and to be a single skin, lightweight and rolls up to a small size. I've tried a couple of hunting, shooting and fishing on line shops but no luck so far. I would appreciate if anyone knows of a particular site that might help me in my quest?
How much weight would I save? I have no idea yet.
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Easiest way I find to lose a few kgs before I do a multi day walk is a quick diet, for a day walk I never fuss O0
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Join the club, Gunwharfman!
I have reached the point where I can no longer save any more weight without spending hundreds of pounds which I haven't got on a new rucksack, tent, sleeping bag and ground mat. What I do have are the lightest I could buy within my budget.
I've spent the last three to four years repeatedly going through my equipment list, one item at a time, and both racking my brains and searching online to see if I could find something lighter.
Last year I was replacing perfectly satisfactory items for no other reason than I'd found something lighter.
There are some things I prefer to continue with rather than something lighter, such as my Steripen Adventurer instead of chlorine or iodine tablets.
Now I can go no further, short of leaving out things that make my trip more comfortable, such as lantern, and shaver, for example, or risking going without mittens or gaiters.
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It's a case of diminishing returns. Do away with any superfluous gear, buy the lightest essential gear that your budget can reasonably justify, and just get out there and do it! No point in worrying about saving a few hundred grams - it really is NOT going to make any difference.
..and as sussamb suggests - my biggest weight saving potential is in my belly! If I was determined, I could probably lose 10kg, and be the better for it! :)
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Easiest way I find to lose a few kgs before I do a multi day walk is a quick diet, for a day walk I never fuss O0
Strangely, the only was I can lose weight is to go on a long multi-day walk. I usually carry around 1800 - 2000 kcals per day but burn off double that. The waistline soon starts to shrink.
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I was having this conversation with a member of our walking group today, as we enjoyed storm Freya in the middle of Dartmoor ;D . Any way we both agreed that compared to body weight and water most of the stuff we were wearing/ carrying was pretty light weight. The difference with modern kit between mid brands and top end is just not worth the weight saving. But I guess If you build it up over time and can afford ultra light then why not.
On the jacket front, I noted that the my mid layer was bone dry, at the end of a day of continuous rain and 70 mph gusts. So can thoroughly recommend Gortex Pro. It's expensivve, yes. But very lightweight very waterproof and worth every penny.
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I usually manage to lose a bit on a long distance walk as well. It is one of the things I enjoy about them, that feeling of being leaner and fitter by the end.
But I remember once as I climbed up some hill that reflecting that I should be puffing and panting a bit less, because in the previous couple of years I had managed to lose the equivalent of the weight of the rucksack I was carrying. In some ways, it was a truly revolting thought!
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I have actually started to 'go the other way'.
Weight saving eventually starts to impinge on 'something'.
Starting with a 'coffin' 1-man tent at 1.6kgs,I changed over to a 1.6kg 'front-loader 2-man tent. I have now swapped-out this tent & increased my 2-man tent weight from 1.6ks to 2.1kgs but have increased the 'comfort factor' by a large amount. The new tent is higher (can be sat-up in) is slightly wider and is a 'side entry' (either side) making getting in and out much easier.
I had gone from 1kg+ self inflating mattress to a 2" thickness lightweight (400g) simple air-inflatable but now gone back to a 900g version. Down filled 3" thick with a built in air-pump and rated down to -24*C. It rolls up to little more than the 400g version but the extra 1" of 'inflated' thickness and the addition of down filling makes it like comparing chalk & cheese.
These 2 items have put my pack weight 'back-up' by 1kg, but the improved comfort factor and having a good nights sleep is immeasurable.
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I had gone from 1kg+ self inflating mattress to a 2" thickness lightweight (400g) simple air-inflatable but now gone back to a 900g version. Down filled 3" thick with a built in air-pump and rated down to -24*C. It rolls up to little more than the 400g version but the extra 1" of 'inflated' thickness and the addition of down filling makes it like comparing chalk & cheese.
Im in the market for a comfy mattress..what brand is it?
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But I remember once as I climbed up some hill that reflecting that I should be puffing and panting a bit less, because in the previous couple of years I had managed to lose the equivalent of the weight of the rucksack I was carrying. In some ways, it was a truly revolting thought!
Interesting.
Jan 2015 I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with a blood-sugar level of 36 (which is very bad), my Cholesterol levels were verging on 'why aren't you dead - you will be within 12 months - LOSE WEIGHT. I weighed 17st 13 lbs.
By walking 4-6 miles EVERY day and a better diet I was down to 12st 13 lbs by May (5 stone lost in 5 months) I worked on the basis that for every pound I lost I would add a pound into the rucksack at the end I was carrying a 70lb rucksack.
I was then too thin and had no padding, it was extremely uncomfortable to sit in the bath or on a 'hard' chair, my 'bum-bones' really hurt.
I allowed my weight to increase to 14 stone and was much more comfortable.
After 2 years I was told I was no longer a diabetic and taken off medication, my Cholesterol level was down to 2 (from 12).
My weight has slowly crept up and now (another 2 years later) weigh 14st 5lbs and my Rucksack is now down to a more comfortable 30lbs.
I walk between 4 and 10 miles most days (at least 5 days per week) and now have the odd Pizza, Chinese and Pie & Chips.
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Im in the market for a comfy mattress..what brand is it?
Exped DownMat 7M
Plenty of UK sellers but this is the American website.
http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/downmat-7-m
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my Rucksack is now down to a more comfortable 30lbs.
What's in those 30lbs? To me a 30lbs pack would be kit plus food and fuel for about one week.
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My comfy mattress is a Thermarest Neoair, very light, rolls up to the size of a Coka Cola bottle.
I've never been above 72 kilos in my life, I always seem to hover just below no matter what I eat or drink. When I hike, within about 3 to 4 days, I quickly drop to about 68-69 kilos and then stabilise even though I tend to 'pub' it every night. What I do like about my small weight loss is that I always seem to lose it around my waist first, I'm forever tightening my belt. The downside is, once home I quickly get back up to about 70 -71 Kilos and it always ends up on my waist again.
I'm sure if I can change my wet weather gear I think I will carry a bit lighter, but I bet its no more than a couple of ounces. To really notice a carry weight loss I would have to go on a spending binge, new rucksack, new tent, new this and new that. I won't of course, in reality I don't think there's enough real gain in doing such a big spend.
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Body weight has never been an issue for me as I only fluctuate between 12 st 3 lb / 171 lb / 77.6 kg during increased summer activity to 12 st 9 lb / 177 lb / 80.3 kg due to winter slothfulness.
What is a problem for me personally is the relationship between ageing legs and the weight carried in a backpack, even with the aid of walking poles, hence my constant quest to lighten my load.
Although body weight has been discussed in previous posts, I completely fail to see any link between this and pack weight, and I hope people will be kind enough to enlighten me, preferably backed up with some hard facts.
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What's in those 30lbs? To me a 30lbs pack would be kit plus food and fuel for about one week.
That's about it.
Everything for 7 days+ except just 3 days of food rations, T-bags, etc etc (1700g) and 1.5 litres of water (1500g), Water filter kit.
The rest is tent, sleeping bag, mattress, seat pad, pillow (4000g)
Cooking pots, stove, gas, mug, windbreak, bits and pieces, (1100g)
Clothes, trowel, washing kit (2000g)
Satmap GPS, Solar panel, headlight, torch, spare glasses, knife, 1st aid kit, bits & bobs (1500g)
Rucksack (empty) (1700g)
Not all needed for a 'day-hike' but I'd rather carry that than a 'bag of sand'.
At least it makes it worthwhile and the pack is there and ready for the odd multi-day hike.
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Although body weight has been discussed in previous posts, I completely fail to see any link between this and pack weight, and I hope people will be kind enough to enlighten me, preferably backed up with some hard facts.
No scientific evidence, but my thinking is ………..
Your legs are carrying the total weight of your body and the weight of your pack.
Lets take a body weight of 200lbs and a pack weight of 30lbs. Your legs are carrying 230lbs.
Lose 10lbs of body weight and your legs are carrying 190 + 30, so only 220lbs.
It is far easier to lose 10lbs of body weight than it would be to lose 10lbs out of a 30lb pack weight, and your legs will feel the difference -
I lost 70lbs body weight, carrying a 30lb pack still means that my muscles, legs, heart are being subject to much less stress (40lbs less weight)
Its interesting looking at my walking log shows that in early 2015 I would walk 1.25 miles at 3.0mph and stop for a drink of water and a few minutes 'break'.
I now walk 10 miles without stopping and average between 3.5 & 3.7mph depending on terrain type.
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Although body weight has been discussed in previous posts, I completely fail to see any link between this and pack weight, and I hope people will be kind enough to enlighten me, preferably backed up with some hard facts.
You're right, there's no link, just that I find it easier to lose weight from my body rather than my pack, and at the end of the day it's the overall weight your legs have to support and your body needs to propel O0
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Although body weight has been discussed in previous posts, I completely fail to see any link between this and pack weight, and I hope people will be kind enough to enlighten me, preferably backed up with some hard facts.
It's all weight that your knees have to support, fernman - it's as simple as that.
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However you still need muscle to carry the body and the rucksack, losing weight rapidly the wrong way can lead to loss within the largest muscles which also happen to be in the legs.
I am a great believer in carrying as light a pack as possible. I now never carry anything "just in case". After reading years of advice in this and other like forums whenever a bit of kit comes up for renewal I get lighter stuff. Or I get it made/adapted to both suit me better and be lighter.
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It's all weight that your knees have to support, fernman - it's as simple as that.
That's exactly what it is. I'm a big guy. Never been particularly fat but I was 111 kgs when I came back to walking. Since then over 4 years I have gradualy droped down to 98 kgs. Doubt I can bin much more but that's still more than my pack weighs and I now find it way easier on steep ground as a result.
Sure if could knock a few pounds out of the pack ,it would be nice. But I could just as easily switch my boots wool socks and gaiters for a pair of cotton socks and trail shoes. Thing is my boots are comfy and for me trail shoes are not. So the lost weight is not worth the compromise.
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However you still need muscle to carry the body and the rucksack, losing weight rapidly the wrong way can lead to loss within the largest muscles which also happen to be in the legs.
I'm not advocating any rapid weight loss, particularly just before putting your body under the prolonged stress of a multi day walk!
..and in my original post, I did specifically mention my belly - not much in the way of muscle there, sadly :D
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I'm not advocating any rapid weight loss, particularly just before putting your body under the prolonged stress of a multi day walk!
..and in my original post, I did specifically mention my belly - not much in the way of muscle there, sadly :D
I have used walking as part of my fitness regime after open heart surgery, monitored carefully by cardiac rehab nurses and regular checkups. I have also lost a party pack and rediscovered a stomach BUT I have had to build leg and glute muscle through the exercises shown me. The gluteus maximus shrank behind me un-noticed as I saw the belly drop away. That muscle has to be rebuilt through hard exercise, belly loss can be obvious, losing from your backside not so much. I have dropped nearly 8 stone now, and I am probably fitter now than I was 30 years ago, certainly have a huge amount more stamina, due to the daily 4 miles fast walk and the half hour of exercise.
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It's all weight that your knees have to support, fernman - it's as simple as that.
Fifteen years ago. I began to notice pain in my knees walking down steep hills & it was quite bad after anything more than fifteen mile. I then went on a diet and lost two stone. I can now walk downhill with far fewer aches in my knees, and walk up hill much faster. It was so very noteicable to me.Also going uphill I was able to breathe much easier. I am fit but the loss in weight improved my agility, speed & aches/pains in my legs.I would recommend losing those excess pounds. O0
I dropped from 15 stone to 13 stone. I have tried losing another half a stone but I do love chocolate...I move furniture for a living and with that work, I found everything became easier, especially walking downstairs with heavy items.!
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I have used walking as part of my fitness regime after open heart surgery, monitored carefully by cardiac rehab nurses and regular checkups. I have also lost a party pack and rediscovered a stomach BUT I have had to build leg and glute muscle through the exercises shown me. The gluteus maximus shrank behind me un-noticed as I saw the belly drop away. That muscle has to be rebuilt through hard exercise, belly loss can be obvious, losing from your backside not so much. I have dropped nearly 8 stone now, and I am probably fitter now than I was 30 years ago, certainly have a huge amount more stamina, due to the daily 4 miles fast walk and the half hour of exercise.
That's quite an achievement, jimbob. O0
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That's quite an achievement, jimbob. O0
Not really it has taken over five years :-X .I have found that like walking, it's the mental attitude that is most important. Now I look at pies and no longer believe they were created solely for my personal delight. I tend to leave them in the shops now. However when doing a longer multiday walk I do carry scotch eggs and pork pies as my main calorie source in the belief that I have so few now that they are insignificant to the bigger picture.
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I'm with Jimbob when it comes to carrying a pack that's as light as possible. I was in the Scouts back in the somethingties when shelter meant canvas which weighs a ton. We therefore as a matter of course used a bivi, and i did spend a few nights in the pouring rain with only a bivi as shelter. I therefore had no qualms about using one again since you can get one that sleeps 3 (or rather covers them) but weighs half a kilo and I really prefer the lack of constriction anyway. Minimise the season rating for your sleeping bag and get a down one. Ultralight groundsheet and a Kindle reader instead of a book and all you'll need is a smaller rucksack.
I'm sure there are a lot of people who will disagree, but the reality is that if you don't feel encumbered when you're walking you enjoy it more. Well I do anyway.
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I'm with Jimbob when it comes to carrying a pack that's as light as possible. I was in the Scouts back in the somethingties when shelter meant canvas which weighs a ton. We therefore as a matter of course used a bivi, and i did spend a few nights in the pouring rain with only a bivi as shelter. I therefore had no qualms about using one again since you can get one that sleeps 3 (or rather covers them) but weighs half a kilo and I really prefer the lack of constriction anyway. Minimise the season rating for your sleeping bag and get a down one. Ultralight groundsheet and a Kindle reader instead of a book and all you'll need is a smaller rucksack.
I'm sure there are a lot of people who will disagree, but the reality is that if you don't feel encumbered when you're walking you enjoy it more. Well I do anyway.
When you say bivi do you mean a bivi bag?
People seem to use the term bivi for different things, such as a tarp, or a shelter made from branches
If I was to use any of these I would be miserable in a storm,
I'll stick with my lightweight tent O0
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I now alternate between a Bivi and my tent. My Bivi is great for short trips, (usually 1 to 3 nights, max 7) especially when I want to wild camp near to villages, less distance to walk from the pub after dark. I started by taking my 3.5 Alpkit tarp with me as well, but I now just take my umbrella. I've been lucky to date, its rained, but not when I got in to it, or got out of it, just in between. I know that one day my luck is going to run out, that will be a real test!
For longer trips I use my tent, which I will do in April when I attend the Borrowdale meet. I've made my mind up that from 14th April I will go from Borrowdale to Carlyle on the Cumbria Way, along Hadrian's Wall to the Pennine Way and then hike north to Kirk Yetholm. From there I will hike to Edinburgh. About 12 days I think, wouldn't want to Bivi for that long!
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I've used Bivi bags a lot in the army and while alpine climbing. There ok if you're trying to sleep under a bush or on a narrow ledge half way up a rock face. The main problem with them is all you can do is lay there, you can't cook, get dressed, read a book or even sit up. My bivibag weights 500g, my lightest tent (Tarptent notch) is about 800g. Hardly worth being uncomfortable for such little weight saved.
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Back to the OP.
GWM you may find this of interest.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075279C3M/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=AKJVBS87BBNI2&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075279C3M/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=AKJVBS87BBNI2&psc=1)
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My bivibag weights 500g, my lightest tent (Tarptent notch) is about 800g. Hardly worth being uncomfortable for such little weight saved.
Indeed. Diminishing returns.
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I've been indulging in a bit of retail therapy since christmas try to get some lighter, better, more comfortable kit.
I've replaced my old 3kg Lowe Alpine rusksack for a 1.2kg Osprey Exos 58. (Ebay, secondhand but unused - £80)
I've replaced my old 2.6kg tent for a 1.1kg Big Agnes Copper Spur 1. (Sport pursuit, reduced from around £360 to £220 - bargain).
I've just ordered a Big Agnes Q Core SLX Mat from Sport Pursuit. The reviews are encouraging and they have it on at a very good price £98.
Yes I've spent a bit of money, but I've saved around 3kg in total and my kit should be better overall too. Getting my pack weight down has encouraged me to be more critical of other pack items too, with regard to shedding weight. Little things, like I used to carry mini scissors in my first aid kit but my swiss army knife also has scissors. My cookpot is larger than I need. Do I really need that many plasters or all that tape? In total, I expect to get about 5kg off for when I start trekking again.
Right now, I'm dealing with a foot injury (hence the dreaming of lots of purchases). I'm itching to get out with my new kit!
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I've replaced my old 3kg Lowe Alpine rusksack for a 1.2kg Osprey Exos 58. (Ebay, secondhand but unused - £80)
Newer LA ones are far lighter, mine is 1.65kg O0
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I am coming to the view that that my next 'lightening the load' purchase will be lighter boots.
Last summer I did a lot of walking in trainers (sorry, approach shoes) and am finding it hard to put great clumpy things on my feet these days. I had two pairs of Altbergs bought at various times, one of the smaller ones, might have been Malham, I gave away, every time I put them on I thought 'I'm not lugging these around all day' and took them off again. I am keeping the tetheras, but I wear them less and less
I chucked out a pair of Lowa renegades because I had worn them into the ground, which has left me a bit short of boots. I was going to replace the Lowas with another pair the same, but when I went to a shop and started talking about wanting lighter boots, the (very helpful) salesman pointed out that they were no longer really lightweight boots, (though lighter than the Altbergs).
It always takes me months to find new boots, I must have weird feet (maybe just old feet) but I am starting the search with a pair of scales at the back of my mind. Was there something about the weight on your feet counting more than the weight on your back?
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What is a problem for me personally is the relationship between ageing legs and the weight carried in a backpack, even with the aid of walking poles, hence my constant quest to lighten my load.
Fernman, I can wholeheartedly recommend the regular use of a cross-trainer to strengthen the legs, whereupon you should be able to leave the poles behind. Worked for me - I no longer have a knee issue, even on steep descents.
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I am coming to the view that that my next 'lightening the load' purchase will be lighter boots...
It always takes me months to find new boots, I must have weird feet (maybe just old feet) but I am starting the search with a pair of scales at the back of my mind. Was there something about the weight on your feet counting more than the weight on your back?
Islandplodder, I believe it's meant to be a factor of 5 (1lb on the back seems like 5lbs on the feet) or similar.
You might like to check out the boots chosen by a guy who's currently doing LEJOG: https://wildwalkinguk.com/2019/01/30/review-inov8-roclite-345-gtx/ (https://wildwalkinguk.com/2019/01/30/review-inov8-roclite-345-gtx/)
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Fernman, I can wholeheartedly recommend the regular use of a cross-trainer to strengthen the legs, whereupon you should be able to leave the poles behind. Worked for me - I no longer have a knee issue, even on steep descents.
A cross-trainer is....? Please tell me, for I don't know.
But it's not a knee issue with me, my problem is age - no, I'm not going to reveal it - so my entire legs ache and tire, including all the joints, but most particularly my lower legs between knees and ankles. I've never had much in the way of muscles, but I used to come home from backpacking trips with muscles on muscles. Now they are just wasting away.
After 7.25 miles yesterday, most of it reasonably level until towards the end when there was a long steep descent of the Chiltern escarpment and, after a level stretch, a cardiac arrest climb, I was absolutely whacked for the rest of the evening, I even went to bed early (having a mild cold doesn't help). But I more or less recovered after 9 hours sleep!
My speed, when I worked it out later, was 2.25 mph.
And the problem with backpacking, I found long ago, is that you get cream crackered in one day, when you walk for more hours than you usually do on a day walk, carrying a much bigger load too, then you've got to do it all over again the next day, and the day after that, and so on.
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AFANASIEW, I had already noted that one, and was planning to follow the blog to see how he got on. Aren't they the same ones as Jasmin Paris raced up the Pennine Way in January wearing when she won the Spine Race?
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AFANASIEW, I had already noted that one, and was planning to follow the blog to see how he got on. Aren't they the same ones as Jasmin Paris raced up the Pennine Way in January wearing when she won the Spine Race?
Not sure, but I think her kit was mainly Inov8 - sponsor? Obviously effective advertising.
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A cross-trainer is....? Please tell me, for I don't know.
But it's not a knee issue with me, my problem is age - no, I'm not going to reveal it - so my entire legs ache and tire, including all the joints, but most particularly my lower legs between knees and ankles. I've never had much in the way of muscles, but I used to come home from backpacking trips with muscles on muscles. Now they are just wasting away.
When I started training for the Pennine Way in 2015 at the age of 61, I found that my knees seized up if I tried 15 mile walks on consecutive days. This was due to enfeeblement of the legs, particularly the thighs, in a sedentary job for years. I fixed the issue by using a cross trainer religiously - and I still do.
Here's a fancy one such as you might find in a gym, but you can buy smaller ones:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=F4D9AFFDDFBC6B71B7A080F48949450D5751B4A5&thid=OIP.fgRhDeXGVmBD9FBS3qysLwHaHa&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fitnessmarket.com.au%2Fshop%2Fimages%2FD%2Fd_1343.jpg&exph=1000&expw=1000&q=cross+trainer&selectedindex=1&pc=U316&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=1,3,4,6
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I hear you gunny.
In my mid 70s and 15 lbs. overweight in the last year due to a thyroid operation and trying to balance the thyroxin medicine.
But I think the meds are beginning to make a difference so I'm' cutting out sugar as much as possible and limit myself to only 2 craft beers per week. (GAK!)
So, now that the house is paid off in April I'll have more disposable income.
Possible SUL items:
->I lust after the new Tarptent Notch Li (Dyneema fabric) 18.7 oz. (531 gm.) Saves almost 1 lb. over my current TT Moment DW
->Maybe I could find a bit [/size]lighter pack than my Osprey EXOS 58 but I fear I will lose the comfort of the EXOS.
->It's possible I can find lighter shoes than m Merrill MOABs.
->There are lighter WPB rain parkas than my 1 lb. REI Kimtah eVent parka.
So in total maybe I could shave off up to 3 lbs. on new gear - maybe.
But first I must lose at least 10 lbs. of body fat!
Eric B.
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AFANASIEW, I had already noted that one, and was planning to follow the blog to see how he got on. Aren't they the same ones as Jasmin Paris raced up the Pennine Way in January wearing when she won the Spine Race?
Similar but I think they are a bit more of a boot than she wore. Perhaps Inov8 have cottoned onto the fact that people are getting their products for walking not running. I wear them too - for walking not running I hasten to add. I like the fact that not only are they very light but I can feel the ground under my feet in a more natural way.
Incidentally, she wore the ladies version (blue laces/sole), I bought the men's (orange laces/sole) not my favourite colour but they were several £s cheaper!
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Similar but I think they are a bit more of a boot than she wore. Perhaps Inov8 have cottoned onto the fact that people are getting their products for walking not running. I wear them too - for walking not running I hasten to add. I like the fact that not only are they very light but I can feel the ground under my feet in a more natural way.
Incidentally, she wore the ladies version (blue laces/sole), I bought the men's (orange laces/sole) not my favourite colour but they were several £s cheaper!
I've seen several articles in which she mentions what she wore, this is just one such article ; https://www.fionaoutdoors.co.uk/2019/03/jasmin-paris-reveals-graphene-fuelled-spine-race-triumph.html
There is also an article in one of the recent 'Trail' magazines where they carry out a 'test' on graphene soled footwear by Inov8.