Author Topic: Off road vehicles on the hills  (Read 25910 times)

swanseamale47

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #30 on: 10:29:45, 15/05/15 »
I wonder how they go over a stile?  :o
I was wondering that too.

ninthace

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #31 on: 17:05:50, 15/05/15 »
I wonder how they go over a stile?  :o

It's probably a question of getting the power to weight ratio right  ;)

Rockets?
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Snowman

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #32 on: 13:18:28, 17/05/15 »
I raised this subject of (particularly 4x4) vehicles on country tracks several years ago and was constantly being quoted the law.    The fact is that as has been previously mentioned the 'Green Ways' are fair game for these people, legally speaking.  The trouble is of course that the laws were made when the heaviest mode of transport expected to use the paths was a horse, and due to the fact that most MPs have influential constituents who own 4x4s there is no will within government to modernise the law.

One of the arguments of the 'pro 4x4' brigade was that walkers erode paths just as 4x4s do.    Obviously a ridiculous argument since it probably takes thousands of walkers to make similar damage to a single 4x4 on a muddy track but still a regularly quoted argument.

The next argument was that walkers should 'live and let live', however this ignores the similar fact that it would take thousands of walkers to make the same amount of noise in a Welsh valley as a single 4x4, and being Wales the former would certainly sound a lot sweeter.

There was a TV program a few years ago about a community that was trying to ban 4x4s from a local path for safety reasons, but of course the 4x4 owners, since they had the money to buy the things in the first place, also had plenty of money to pay for lawyers to counter the arguments.

Unfortunately, this is an example of where the needs of the many are inconsequential when stood up against the frivolous desires of the rich.   I'm far from being a leftie, but on this topic I really do resent this attitude.



Ridge Walker

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #33 on: 00:58:09, 19/05/15 »
Thanks for that Ridge Walker that made some interesting reading, if nothing else it confirmed that the people I have come across were neither riding legally or adhering to the code of conduct.

Just to follow up. What will happen regarding off road. is access by permit only. This has been implemented since 2004 successfully on Gatescarth Pass in the Lakes.  O0

Here's the web link below
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/thingstodo/green_roads/green_road_gatescarth

Slogger

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #34 on: 16:12:51, 19/05/15 »
According to other reading on that link of 2004, since 2006 the pass has been closed to motor vehicles.
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/thingstodo/green_roads/green_road_garburn

Ridge Walker

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #35 on: 16:58:43, 19/05/15 »
According to other reading on that link of 2004, since 2006 the pass has been closed to motor vehicles.
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/thingstodo/green_roads/green_road_garburn

Garburn Pass is closed. But if you scroll down the link I gave you for GATESCARTH PASS  ::)
http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/thingstodo/green_roads/green_road_gatescarth


They have the access dates and restrictions for all 2015   :D :D

bobdelon

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #36 on: 03:13:13, 18/06/15 »
local restrictions are different.this is a gray area. you are not alone~  

Ridge Walker

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #37 on: 09:05:42, 18/06/15 »
There really is no grey areas, regarding off road motorised vehicles!

When the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 on the 2.5.2006 reclassified all remaining Roads Used as Public Paths as restricted byways.

The only people allowed access, are those on foot, on horseback or leading a horse, by vehicles other than mechanically propelled, such as, bicycles, horse-drawn carriages, and the usual people, who work on the land, using the roads for access.   

It in now a criminal offence to use motorised vehicles on Restricted By-Ways.

Some authorities have signs up stating this fact. Some haven't. In that case the old Maxim comes to into force
"IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE"
« Last Edit: 09:27:08, 18/06/15 by Ridge Walker »

jj99

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #38 on: 01:58:17, 18/08/15 »
Makes my blood boil too.
I was "blasted" on May 16th this year as I made my way on the ridge to the east of Grwyne Reservoir heading for Bal Mawr. Just across from where you were accosted.
Three young lads on motor bikes appeared out of nowhere in the middle of a glorious Saturday afternoon. Two sped past on my left but not before the other, on my right, splattered me with mud as he flew past having become airborne riding over a lump of earth and landed in a wet patch.
The three raced on and stopped about 400 yards ahead of me, oblivious to my anger. I started jogging with18lb rucsac and hurled expletives at them as I closed in. I was really peeved, to say the least. But suitably unimpressed by my remonstrations, the three turned off the ridge and in the direction of the forest below Grwyne Fawr, the roar of their engines quickly dulled by their decent. At Llanthony I phoned the cops from the public call box. The bikes had no number plates. "There's not a lot we can do," I was told.

That was the weekend of the Longtown Mountain Rescue Black Mountains Challenge and - I was not part of the event - there must have been competitors who were buzzed by this trio. Their track marks left great scars in the peat and it's a pity their trails did not leave straight to their doors.

I'm still angry over this incident -  it feels like I was assaulted. Grrrrr.


To be specific I refer to off road bikes, although it could also relate to four wheeled vehicles in your area. I may be wrong, but as I understand it they have no place on footpaths or restricted byways, but I stand to be corrected. Now we all enjoy the outdoors for our own reasons, off roaders being no exception and far be it from me to deny anyone or group their own chosen hobby, but surely in it's rightful place. It doesn't happen often, but on several occasions the peace and tranquility of a walk has been shattered for me by trials bikes, usually in a group with noisy engines churning up the path or sometimes Virgin ground. I walk to get away from such things and to find them blasting across the countryside makes my blood boil, admittedly some ride a little more sedately than others but that's no consolation. If they are there legally, then I would avoid those areas, but I suspect not, for reference the areas concerned are Y Das, Mynydd Bychan, Grwyne Fawr, below Fan Foel and also along Sarn Helen near Coelbren, surely I can't be the only one outraged by this?

oldenuf2knowbetter

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #39 on: 17:48:27, 18/08/15 »
Makes my blood boil too.
I was "blasted" on May 16th this year as I made my way on the ridge to the east of Grwyne Reservoir heading for Bal Mawr. Just across from where you were accosted.
Three young lads on motor bikes appeared out of nowhere in the middle of a glorious Saturday afternoon. Two sped past on my left but not before the other, on my right, splattered me with mud as he flew past having become airborne riding over a lump of earth and landed in a wet patch.
The three raced on and stopped about 400 yards ahead of me, oblivious to my anger. I started jogging with18lb rucsac and hurled expletives at them as I closed in. I was really peeved, to say the least. But suitably unimpressed by my remonstrations, the three turned off the ridge and in the direction of the forest below Grwyne Fawr, the roar of their engines quickly dulled by their decent. At Llanthony I phoned the cops from the public call box. The bikes had no number plates. "There's not a lot we can do," I was told.

That was the weekend of the Longtown Mountain Rescue Black Mountains Challenge and - I was not part of the event - there must have been competitors who were buzzed by this trio. Their track marks left great scars in the peat and it's a pity their trails did not leave straight to their doors.

I'm still angry over this incident -  it feels like I was assaulted. Grrrrr.

oldenuf2knowbetter

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #40 on: 17:50:03, 18/08/15 »

It's taken you 3 months to rant about this, you must have been really traumatised.

Slogger

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #41 on: 19:20:04, 18/08/15 »
Walking along the Pennine Way last Sunday, heading for Bleaklow Head along the Devils Dyke, we came across three MTV's (Multi Terrain Vehicles) that had stopped high up on the top of the bank. One of the riders asked us if we knew which direction a certain village was in. We didn't know so he asked us where the path we were on went to. These guys were just riding across the open moorland on their four wheeled vehicles and had obviously come to a halt upon reaching the trench of the Dyke. Right to roam it is not, but they didn't seem as though they realised they were doing anything wrong.

Peter

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #42 on: 19:59:08, 18/08/15 »
Walking along the Pennine Way last Sunday, heading for Bleaklow Head along the Devils Dyke, we came across three MTV's (Multi Terrain Vehicles) that had stopped high up on the top of the bank. One of the riders asked us if we knew which direction a certain village was in. We didn't know so he asked us where the path we were on went to. These guys were just riding across the open moorland on their four wheeled vehicles and had obviously come to a halt upon reaching the trench of the Dyke. Right to roam it is not, but they didn't seem as though they realised they were doing anything wrong.


My question is.. how far do they get without running into locked gates? Life gets hard for us when we wander 'off piste'.  :-\
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GREENLANING ENTHUSIAST

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #43 on: 11:56:16, 12/04/16 »
To be specific I refer to off road bikes, although it could also relate to four wheeled vehicles in your area. I may be wrong, but as I understand it they have no place on footpaths or restricted byways, but I stand to be corrected. Now we all enjoy the outdoors for our own reasons, off roaders being no exception and far be it from me to deny anyone or group their own chosen hobby, but surely in it's rightful place. It doesn't happen often, but on several occasions the peace and tranquility of a walk has been shattered for me by trials bikes, usually in a group with noisy engines churning up the path or sometimes Virgin ground. I walk to get away from such things and to find them blasting across the countryside makes my blood boil, admittedly some ride a little more sedately than others but that's no consolation. If they are there legally, then I would avoid those areas, but I suspect not, for reference the areas concerned are Y Das, Mynydd Bychan, Grwyne Fawr, below Fan Foel and also along Sarn Helen near Coelbren, surely I can't be the only one outraged by this?

As an enthusiast of such things, it makes my blood boil that it makes your blood boil. Why are you against such fun and thrilling activities? You have thousands of footpaths all to yourselves yet you complain on the odd occasion that you come across motorised vehicles.

I personally am an off road enthusiast, off road driving (in a jeep) or riding (on such a bike) is so much fun that it is indescribable to someone who hasn't experienced it.

You get thousands of footpaths and bridleways, yet we only get a mere percentage of the countryside to enjoy with our motors.

Whether I am on a legal byway or illegal footpath (not often but occasionally I do find myself exploring) I am always careful to pass slowly and considerately with minimal fuss.
No, You're not alone. In reality I'm OK with them on the whole, but when they're where they're not supposed to be then I'm totally with you.
I live in the West Pennine area and I'm delighted to see that the local authorities take a very dim view of illegal off roading. There's signs gone up all around the most abused areas now warning of dire consequences for misuse. Including heavy fines and confiscation of vehicles. O0

There are more rangers and NWW vehicles around on the paths and contact nos on the signs to report incidents on

See this just seems unnecessary to me.

Maybe this island really is overcrowded and it is time for enthusiasts like me to try to find a less crowded country like France, for instance.

I don't understand the attraction of walking but I won't seek to ban it like some extremist walking groups try to.

I attended a Powys CC Local Access Forum meeting as an observer early this year. It was interesting how much agenda time this issue took up, due mainly because of the rise in the number of 4x4's in the hand of people, who do not not have them for professional reasons. The Powys issue was centered on the Monk's Trod that crosses the great green desert of the Elland Valley. As this is an SSI, the stone that is allowed to be used, to repair the ancient roadway, can only come from a special source and must be helicoptered in for logistical reasons, it makes any repair a lengthy and expensive process, especially when public money is in short supply.
The Monk's trod is closed to Off Roaders (temporarily) but off course it does not put of some from finding a way around the closure signs and policing this sort of misbehavior is difficult in remote areas.
With mobile phones today it is possible for the individual walker to collect and transmit evidence and those, who feel strongly about it should do so.


Another curious observation I have stumbled across. I was given the Natural England files on their Lost Ways project for Shropshire, NE did a number of pilot studies on Lost Ways, in 3 counties I believe, in which they chose 100 random parishes, where they researched the lost ways to evaluated the legal claim to re-instating them.
The fact that stood out, rather obviously to me, was the high probability of recovery of lost ways would result in BOAT's and RUPP's, did the fear of the Off Roader contribute to shelving of NE's study of lost ways?
The methodology of the research seemed to point towards NE evaluating the 'cost effectiveness' of recovering lost ways through the existing legal framework, rather than research how the lost ways could contribute to our existing 'off road' network.


The rise in the leisure use of the 4x4 does impact on our access to the countryside and it does create a disproportionate cost increase, as the roads used by motor vehicles were built for horse drawn carriages and carts. I do not agree with placing restrictions on or closing the small number of existing byways in the country.

Horse drawn carriages would cause more damage due to narrow wooden wheels rather than small diameter wheels shod in soft rubber. I disagree that off roaders impact on your access to the countryside. Thousands upon thousands of miles belong to footpaths and bridleways, only a few hundred miles across the whole country belong to byways.

I do not agree with restricting access to the small number of existing byways, indeed I would like to see seldom used bridleways converted back to byways to provide more areas to play and thus less strain on existing byways.


It was (probably still is) a big problem in the Peaks 2 or 3 years ago. I would frequently come across a churned up mire.
Though I have to say I found watching the actual vehicles quite fascinating. ( I do NOT approve of the damage they were causing)
I have a 4x4 myself, but only because of the roads around here. I have to 'walk' my dog whether I go for a walk myself or not. So parking off the road requires something a bit more robust than a Corsa. With my luck I'd just get stuck straight away if I 'off roaded'.
Just passing oncoming traffic here involves slipping 'off road'.
Strictly speaking is it actually 'off roading'? Don't they really mean 'off tarmac' since they are supposed to still be on a road?

I am glad you find watching the vehicles fascinating. As an enthusiast, it is also fascinating to me to see the vehicle moving over the ground, the suspension working, the axles articulating etc. The thrill of seeing what your machine can conquer is such a rush and satisfying at the same time, especially if you have modified it yourself, as most enthusiasts do.

Its a massive problem in the North York Moors and I posted recently about the national park teaming up with the police to tackle it. I have lost count of the amount of times they have nearly run my dog over, tearing round corners on footpaths they shouldn't even be on!

Does anyone know the speed limit of a byway? the speed they come across Glaisdale Rigg is crazy and although that track is legal their speed surely isn't. interesting that the trf link states they should stop and switch of their engines to give way to walkers etc, I know this isn't compulsory but this has never happened to me.

I photograph any riders on non legal paths and contact the non emergency police number to report them but policing this must be a logistical nightmare as by the time the police arrive the bikes are in the back of a van and away.

Tearing around any right of way is not advisable, whether one is walking, jogging, cycling, horseriding, or controlling a motor vehicle. A good rule is to always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. Indeed it would be very sad if your dog got run over or you were injured as a result of a reckless user.

I personally don't agree with the TRF's guideline of stopping and switching off the engine, I normally ride slowly past leaving plenty of room. If there is not enough space then I slow down expecting to stop but if they give way to me I thank them with a quick wave.

As for the speed limit of a byway the speed limit is common sense. Technically the speed limit is the national speed limit (60mph). As you can see, that is the reason that the real limit is determined by common sense.
« Last Edit: 12:04:07, 12/04/16 by GREENLANING ENTHUSIAST »
I enjoy driving cars and riding motorcycles with a preference for off road.

sussamb

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Re: Off road vehicles on the hills
« Reply #44 on: 12:02:28, 12/04/16 »
Maybe this island really is overcrowded and it is time for enthusiasts like me to try to find a less crowded country like France, for instance.

I doubt anyone here would object if you did  :)
Where there's a will ...

 

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