Walking Forum
Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: topher83 on 16:50:56, 22/01/19
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Hiya
Just wondering if there's anything to a 4 season tent or is it down to the sleeping bag
Was looking at possibly winter camping, got a good sleeping bag that's rated down to minus numbers
But the tent is some cheap 2 manner
Wasn't planning on going during a storm, so mainly the cold and moderate wind potentially
Does the quality of the tent greatly affect the inside temp?
Thanks
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I would say a tent season rating is mainly down to wind resistance. If you have a sheltered valley pitch in good conditions, and (important) pitch your tent well, then you'll get away with a cheapie - as long as a storm doesn't arrive unexpectedly, that is. If you are wild camping on the fells, then better get a decent tent.
Regarding inner temperature of the tent - tents with a lot of mesh built into the inner will be draughty, as will those with a big gap under the fly. I like tents that have controllable ventilation.
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Plus 1 as Richard says O0
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And plus 2 ;)
Also a good mat is just as important as a good bag, Down ones are best but expensive. Cheaper ones with a foam mat underneath work ok in my experience
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Didn't even know down mats were a thing ???
Got a couple of 'classic' foam mats, plus a self inflating foam mat
Was jus gonna put a foam mat down then the self inflating one, should be warm enough
Cheers, just need to plan a day now :)
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Post up a trip report with some pics
O0
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I'm in a pretty similar position but w/ a 3 season tent (vango banshee). I was out camping in the cheviots last weekend, I think the forecast was about -3 ish. I used two roll mats (one thin, blue cheapo go outdoors one and a thicker, silver foil sided decathlon one) plus my three quarter length thermarest pro light and that was fine. Not even sure if I really needed two roll mats, but it wasn't a long walk so I thought I'd air on the side of caution.
I hope this isn't “hijacking” the thread (if it is, please just let me know and I'll start a different one) but a few questions last weekends trip threw up were (and hopefully any replies might be usefull to the original poster too):
1. What pegs do you use on cold/frozen/hard/lightly snow covered ground? My normal ones were bending and were very difficult to get in the ground.
2. When snow is too deep for the pegs to go in, what do you do? Do you carry a light weight shovel and dig down/move the snow until your pegs get in?
3. When doubling up sleeping bags how to you work out a rough temperature rating for the two combined? I used a Rab 500 (comfort 1 degrees C – my go to 3 season bag) and an oldish, heavy synthetic vango bag (comfort 0 degrees C – my old bag). I was pretty warm last weekend at -3. I'm planning to incrementally test this set up out to see how cold I'm comfortable at. However, the forecast isn't always right, so I am quite curious to know if there is some way of roughly working out the temp ratings of a doubled up sleeping bag system.
Thanks again!
HS
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Most tents would be OK in winter if at low level & sheltered. could add some extra guys
Foam mat & SIM & good s/bag should be OK. Wear spare clothes inside, eg microfleece top, long johns & socks kept dry just for sleeping
Keep gas cartridges in the s/bag with you when not in use
Fill pan with water at night, then if it freezes you just have to put it on the stove in the morning
Keep water bags & bottles in the inner tent as it's slightly warmer. Store them upside down so that if they freeze the ice does not form a plug at the neck
Can use water bladders and bottles as hot water bottles as long as the water is not nearly boiling. In the morning you will have lukewarm water and be well on your way to your first brew
Pull a body warmer or fleece jacket over the bottom of your sleeping bag; besides extra insulation it will protect the bag from damp & condensation from rubbing against the tent walls
Take more fuel than usual, to allow for extra brews or melting snow, or simply because the water will be starting at a lower temperature
Besides your usual food & drink take extra hot snacks that can be cooked with the minimum of fuel, like instant noodles, cup-a-soup, frankfurter sausages. Yes, I know they're junk, but you don't have to live off them for ever
If you need to melt snow, either start very gently, or put some water in the pan - because snow will soak up its own meltwater at first, leaving the pan dry, and it will burn
If you leave your tent with the gear in it, always put the s/bag in a waterproof bag - especially if you think your tent is a bit suspect
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HUMANSNAIL -
For frozen ground obviously bigger/stronger/longer pegs are what you really want. But one trick is to take one decent steel peg to make the hole, then remove it and put your other peg in the hole
Peg extractors are for wimps - if you've ever struggled with sore freezing hands to remove pegs you'll wish you had one. Or you could take a suitable loop of cord
For deep snow, scraping back to soil is the best - toilet trowel? Or you could make some sort of dead man by burying crampons or rocks; or use your ice axe and trekking poles. Or fill a stuff sac with snow and use that
But if you get to that stage you're getting pretty serious
I think experience is the only way to estimate the insulation of combinations of mats & bags, but if in doubt, take it
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Some good tips there zuludog.
A spare tent peg makes a perfectly adequate peg extractor in my experience, Humansnail.
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Also a good mat is just as important as a good bag, Down ones are best but expensive.
Down is always best left on the bird it came from ;)
Was jus gonna put a foam mat down then the self inflating one, should be warm enough
Yes, foam mat and thermarest pro does work, I use these.
Good tips from zuludog, never thought about putting a jacket or fleece over the bottom of the bag.
Reading all this has confirmed to me that I want to wait until it has warmed up a little bit before I go out camping ;D Minus 5 here in north Cumbria atm.
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Down is always best left on the bird it came from ;)
Good tips from zuludog, never thought about putting a jacket or fleece over the bottom of the bag.
Inclined to agree about down.
I've often put my fleece over the bottom of my bag - or rather zipped it up and pulled it on over the bottom of the bag.
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I've some long plastic stacks about 18 in long and an "I" form about 1 X 1.5 in for camping in snow, I got them from a garden centre I think. I use them as deadmen of it's very deep otherwise just as normal pegs. When the weather's really bad skis make ideal anchorages.
I use an old 5 season (is there really such a thing) kerrimat under an old style full length thermarest.
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I use an old 5 season (is there really such a thing) kerrimat under an old style full length thermarest.
I remember them - but I went for the 4 season version. Still in use after 35 years!
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Wintertents should have flysheet all the way to the ground so snow cant get blown under it. Some tents have stormflaps which you can pack snow on to get it tight. Tent poles a little thicker than on a summer tent ex. DAC 10mm. No you cant have it so much warmer on the inside of the tent because you need good ventilation to get moist out so it dont stays frosen on the inside. In a tipitent can you have a heater/stove or open fire.
Yes you can have 5 seasons the Samis have 8 tree of them are winter.
I use my spring-autumn tent even in the winter its not perfect but it works.
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Thanks, some very good tips there. My pegs are basic 7" aluminium ones but I do carry one steel peg with me in case I need to start a hole on hard ground first. I've found this to be a problem in the summer sometimes.
A few days ago I saw on the net some 'T' shaped pegs that are designed to screw into the ground, maybe this could solve this problem? When I see them in a shop I might buy some?
I have also bought a £6 camping blanket from Decathlon to throw over my down sleeping quilt but havn't tested it yet. It works great over my duvet at home, two nights ago in particular.
I use my Zepypos One tent when its colder, always seems to work well enough.
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First all let me say, different folk feel the cold differently. So what might be comfortable for one may not be for another. With that in mind, if I were you I’d start close to home or your car and have a trial run before committing to the hills.
Personally, I use a mountain tent (without valences). The aluminium poles along are good enough to keep the tent up in all but the strongest winds, only then do I need a guy line or two. What is important, is to keep the wind outside. Use anything you have to block or cover the gap between the fly and the ground, at least on the windward side (wind can shift direction in the night), I’ve even used snow to do this before now. I can’t overstate this point, it’s worth the time taken to get it right. The next thing to pay attention to is the ground, you must be well insulated from it. Weather its two roll mats an air-bed, air-bed plus roll mat or just cardboard and newspapers this is the second biggest factor in staying warm. Then there’s the sleeping bag, tricky this one, because as I said at the beginning, everybody’s different. But if you’ve got those first two things right the sleeping bag will be easier to control. It must allow you to ‘breathe’ and not sweat, if you do sweat it has the potential to make you colder. A little trial and error should get this balance right, I find sleeping in the buff preferable to wearing clothes, yes I’m actually warmer that way, remember if your feet are cold wear a hat. Don’t miss your evening meal. Never go to bed wet. That should be enough to start you off topher, best of luck ;)
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Thanks, some great info on this thread.
I'm going to have a look for some longer,thicker pegs this weekend.
Also, great idea about building a little wall of snow to cover the gap between the flysheet and the ground.