Walking Forum
Main Boards => News and Articles => Topic started by: Skip on 11:07:45, 20/07/16
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Very sad news: a soldier died during a training exercise in the Brecon Beacons yesterday. The cause of death has not been confirmed but it was the hottest day of the year.
Story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36844425 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36844425)
and here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/20/soldier-dies-on-training-exercise-in-brecon-beacons-mod-says (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/20/soldier-dies-on-training-exercise-in-brecon-beacons-mod-says)
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Sad news indeed although it seems like the soldier died in camp, and before 0900, and therefore the fact it was a hot day may be completely irrelevant.
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Its the main reason that their the chosen training ground of most of the Uks military personnel.
Apart from the SAS being based in nearby Hereford, and Derring Lines Military camp on the outskirts of Brecon, the Brecon Beacons offer some of the most challenging open countryside anywhere in the Uk.
Mile after mile of featureless moorland, that attracts every kind of weather, their the ideal training ground for every soldier.
Ive passed Storey Arms carpark many a time, seeing a military truck full of combat clad recruits, and Ive even come across some Gurkha soldiers near Tal Y Bont.
How often do you ever see the military in Snowdonia? almost never.
A death is always saddening to read about, but apart from Dartmoor, there's no finer location to train our soldiers, and we must always pay our respects to people who lay down their lives in the pursuit of safeguarding our nation.
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Very sad news.It appears that the soldier was on some kind of fitness test.It didn't say what type of test or the exact location.
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Do not think these lads were 'laying down their lives' for the country, rather being maltreated in some misguided attempt to encourage 'toughness'. Demonstrating how to cope with very hot conditions and survive, and still be a fighting force, would be more useful and sensible.
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@altirando
Again you're jumping to conclusions without any real info, last time it was about teenagers 'lost' who turned out to be nothing of the sort. I'm sure we'd all be grateful if you tried to rein your imaginative mind in occasionally O0
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they pick the beacons for a reason to train. but on a very hot day like yesterday should they be doing it
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The soldier concerned had just completed an 8 mile basic fitness test carrying 25kg which had to be completed in 2 hours.It wasn't a race and no one was allowed to complete the test in under 1 hour 50 minutes.Sounds reasonable to me,especially as it was held in the early morning before things got too hot.
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Its the only way they can physically prepare our potential recruits for the kind of climatic conditions found in the Middle East.
What is the point of training our troops in normal British weather, when they may be called to fight in conflicts where temperatures regularly exceed 40C.
However unfortunate these casualties are, thankfully they are a rare occurrence.
To be able to fight successfully in very hot climates abroad, we must train our recruits in the kind of weather we have been experiencing recently.
Flying newly trained soldiers from the UK to the Middle East without first preparing them for the kind of weather associated with those regions, is very unwise.
The same goes with the SAS, their amongst the toughest and fittest of the Worlds Special forces.
The very unfortunate deaths two years ago, was the result of a failure of staff to see the symptoms of severe heatstroke and dehydration on potential recruits to the elite force of the British Army.
Insufficient supervision was the blame, and for members of the public offering what water they had, to very distressed soldiers, who unwisely did not carry sufficient water with them.
The majority of us carry more than enough water in sub 30C heat, but none of us are asked to carry a 50Kg ruck sack , an unwieldly rifle, and be told to reach a particular location in the Beacons in a time, most of us would struggle without all that extra kit.
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Not much detail but a little more about this tragic event http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/26-year-old-soldier-who-11639561
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The soldier concerned had just completed an 8 mile basic fitness test carrying 25kg which had to be completed in 2 hours.It wasn't a race and no one was allowed to complete the test in under 1 hour 50 minutes.Sounds reasonable to me,especially as it was held in the early morning before things got too hot.
O0
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Insufficient supervision was the blame, and for members of the public offering what water they had, to very distressed soldiers, who unwisely did not carry sufficient water with them.
With some knowledge of this incident the real problem was the soldiers started to go down the slippery slope of heat exhaustion towards heat stroke, and failed to recognise what was happening to them. They passed various water sources but failed to top up their water supply, thinking presumably there was no need, with the consequential unfortunate ending. I can't recall a time when a similar event occurred.
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How often do you ever see the military in Snowdonia? almost never.
Actually they did use the snowdonia national park quite a lot when I was a squiddy a very long time ago. They were however not allowed in uniform for fear of frightening the tourists. The military has a lot of different training areas all around the country, different areas are used for different activities. Some for live firing, other's for artillery or aircraft or whatever. I've spent many days in the Brecon Beacons and I wouldn't say it's particularly more wild or exposed than say Warcop or Otterburn or Cape Wrath. Why this poor man came to grief hasn't been established yet so speculating isn't helpful.
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Actually they did use the snowdonia national park quite a lot when I was a squiddy a very long time ago. They were however not allowed in uniform for fear of frightening the tourists. The military has a lot of different training areas all around the country, different areas are used for different activities. Some for live firing, other's for artillery or aircraft or whatever. I've spent many days in the Brecon Beacons and I wouldn't say it's particularly more wild or exposed than say Warcop or Otterburn or Cape Wrath. Why this poor man came to grief hasn't been established yet so speculating isn't helpful.
Well said. I did various trips to Snowdonia and there's a military camp near Capel Curig, but as you correctly say we used to wear civvies out in the hills as it's considered more an 'adventure training' area rather than a military training area.
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That's certainly true, as their annually involved in the 1000m Peak Race, but over the many years that Ive driven up and down the Nant Francon and A5, towards Bettws Y Coed, ive never encountered a military vehicle, such as a camouflaged truck or land Rover coming towards me.
They obviously use the road, as there would be little use of having a camp in the vacinity, but the camp is a quiet one, traffic wise.
You occasionally see army personell on the Epynt ranges, especially when their Red flag is flying to indicate life firing in progress, but the carpark opposite the Storey Arms, is regularly used by the troops, and if one regularly uses the A470, as i did when i lived in South Wales, seeing the army vehicles was a regular event.
Now that i live in North Wales, i cannot remember ever seeing a military vehicle of any type passing me on the road.
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ive never encountered a military vehicle, such as a camouflaged truck or land Rover coming towards me.
This just shows how fantastic their camouflage is then, lol
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;D ;D ;D O0
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Now that i live in North Wales, i cannot remember ever seeing a military vehicle of any type passing me on the road.
Not all vehicles used by the military are obviously military. For trips to Snowdonia we always used white minibuses, as I said it's more for adventure training rather than military training ;)
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I'm regularly up and down the A470 past Storey Arms, also over the Epynt ranges to Tirabad and Llanwrtyd Wells. Many a time I've seen white minibuses depositing military personnel out on some exercise or another. You quite often see obviously military vehicles on the roads around SENTA, but equally as often if they don't want to be seen, they won't be.
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Sad news, can I ask that people wait to see the facts of the incident before they portion blame. Accidents happen for many different reasons and at the moment we are unsure what caused this one.
To answer a couple of the things thrown up. Whilst I was in the military we used Snowdonia quite a lot. Indefatigable is an adventure training base near Anglesy, Capel Cruig camp, Bathesda Cottage and we did courses at PLB. All the time using civilian vehicles and wearing civilian kit. Most of the time we used hire cars to take us to and from these bases.
I have trained in Brecon and it is a harsh area but not quite as harsh as the Mountain Training centre at Kinlochleven, using the Mamore mountains. Its used to train troops for deployment to Norway for Artic training. Stornaway on the Isle of Lewis in the outer Hebrides. Cape Wrath training area where the RAF can practice close air support and drop bombs near you.
Our troops are trained in various roles in various countries. Cold weather training takes place in Canada and Norway, Jungle training in Belize and Brunei, warm weather training in Kenya, Oman and Cyprus. We don't train troops in the Brecon in the hope we get a warm day.
Training happens no matter what the weather and timescales for marches etc will be changed to suit weather conditions. In winter you need more time because of snow etc, you also need more calories to be eaten. These things are taken into consideration. Warm weather. More stops for water and cooling. You will also find directing staff will assess your personal admin skills and if it looks like your not taking care of yourself you will first be advised and secondly taken off for your own good. It's human for people to push themselves. Hide injury. No rules or regulations can cover every eventuality
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Not all vehicles used by the military are obviously military. For trips to Snowdonia we always used white minibuses, as I said it's more for adventure training rather than military training ;)
A very sad event, the loss of any training recruit, but then any death of anyone military personnel is always sad.
It must raise the question of how these training sorties are organised and run, even though the lads and lasses need to train in extreme environments and conditions, they need to be brought up to the mark sensibly and with the right support to prevent any fatalities.
Though the armed forces do tend to use white, unmarked, mini buses, I it find surprising, because I've seen quite a few military vehicles, in camouflage, when I travel to North Wales and Snowdonia.
There are quite a few unsigned camps/bases in Snowdonia, and also a few signposted, particularly Capel Curig Camp on the A5, which you can't miss when driving past.