access to unpaved roads

[scummbunny]

Hi there,
This question probably has an obvious answer but I cant find any info on this on the net.
I'm planning a walk over to Penkridge which for part of the walk sees me following the Heart of England way East to West over Cannock Chase.

On the west side of the chase there is a point where I can either follow the path Northwards until it joins the Staffordshire way and i follow it to Penkridge, or I can follow a footpath to the A34 and use an unpaved road which will take me almost directly to Penkridge and save me quite a few miles.

However I have no idea if I can legally follow this road. I know there are plenty of unpaved roads I have walked on the chase with no problems but I'm not sure about these as they are not part of the chase as far as I know. Can anyone enlighten me regarding right of way on these roads?
Thanks 

[sussamb]

Access varies, can you explain exactly where it is?

[scummbunny]

Well this particular road starts on os map 244.
Approx grid ref is 166 969.

If that's how you reference it - sorry I'm a bit rusty...

[sussamb]

Yes, I see where you mean ... it's around SJ 966 114 (reverse your grid).

I've checked all the maps I have, including on line ones and there is no right of way shown there.  Looking at Google earth shows one entrance way into Teddesly Park blocked by a gate and the other indicating it is private.  I suspect therefore what you're suggesting won't work 

[scummbunny]

Ok, Thanks for your help 

[barewirewalker]

Put Sussamb's grid ref. into streetmap and landed in Shoal Hill woods where there are a network of rights of way. I think the area you are talking about, which Sussamb has rightly pinpointed as Teddesly Park is 4km north of the point SJ 966 114. Would the route you wish to take start at   SJ 96520 16420 and end at SJ 94250 15265? Because if this is so then I think you have quite an interesting trespass, which highlights some of the anomalies of our rights of way system and the temptations to step off the Righteous Way.
Although there appears to be an abundance of rights of way in this area, I think your difficulties are centered around 4x1 km area without RoW running N to S on the eastern side of the A34. It is crossed by a 'white lane' and will you do any harm if you walk it?
If we had a right to roam closer to the Scottish model this would not be an issue.

[sussamb]

Duh .... Should have been SJ 966 144 .... Wrote it wrong!

[barewirewalker]

Having looked further using street map and google earth, I can see the OP's dilemma. He has pinpointed an important point, he has no legal right to make a direct crossing of the  A34, but this is no doubt a very nasty piece of road. A direct crossing is obviously the safest option, walking any distance along it would be hazardous and a distraction to drivers speeding along it.


If I have the correct RoW the OP is thinking of using, it is a bridleway, its blind termination on the A34 makes it as much use as a chocolate fireguard as an equestrian route, yet there is a perfectly good continuation on the other side of the road.


Personally if this was in my area I would walk it and hope that I was challenged, I would certainly bring it up on my Local Access Forum. An opportunity I probably will no longer have as our new chairman, an hereditary landowner, seems to be making moves to evict some members and I suspect I am one of those destined for the chop.

[barewirewalker]

 Looking at Google earth shows one entrance way into Teddesly Park blocked by a gate and the other indicating it is private.  I suspect therefore what you're suggesting won't work    

 


I suspect that Sussamb's assessment is correct, in a strict interpretation and I was tempted to use the internet to evaluate a trespass. With the help of Google Earth, free maps and internet browsers it is possible to make pretty good recce of an area.


Both an open and covert access to this area stand a good chance of being successful. First off I think it is unlikely that you would not be challenged because there are multiple tenants or owners in the barn conversions that have been developed in the outbuildings that remain from the pre-war ownership by the Littleton family, the original Teddesley hall was demolished in the 1950's. The tendency over the last 20 years of landowners taking advantage of the property boom has replaced the more observant country man with the less observant urban incomers, who do not know who their neighbours. 


At the time of Google Earth's photography the agriculture of that estate is totally arable, fair chance in today's practice any work in progress will be done by a contractor. Contractors have less interest in the property rights of their employers than the traditional farm worker.


The so-called unpaved roads, which I would suspect to be originally paved by the military occupation during the war and those leading to private residences e.g. the multiple occupancy of the barn conversions and other possible developments ? ex.military buildings (views on GE) are open ground. The lesser paved tracks appear to have more cover, either option of a open or covert approach you reach safe ground with the RoW running N to S close to the barn conversion.


The reason I see that this example points so clearly to the anomaly that now exists between the Scottish right of access and our rigid adherence to RoW's is the position of Penkridge Rail Station, situated within reasonable walking distance of an important amenity area such as Cannock Chase, it demonstrates how it is possible to make accessible to non car owners a place of physical recreation.

[barewirewalker]

If I have got the OP's query correctly identified it will be arrow no.1 on the map below;



Sussamb seems to have answered Scummbunnies question but I wonder if this is a 'lost way'? Lost Ways are the subject of an appeal by the Rambler's Association, which does not seem to be getting much attention, perhaps because they are not demonstrating how lost way actually affect walkers day to day access to the countryside.


I originally identified this anomaly on my rather dated Memory Map that does not have Open Access (OA) marked, but as this example rather intrigued me I harvested this map from 'Streetmap'. The edge of OA appears at the top right and runs N to S of image, but is the boundary of Cannock Chase OA. The map shows an unpaved road that presumably was the drive to Teddesly Hall, since demolished!


Why was a bridleway recorded that just stops at the A 34 when as possible continuation of way is shown by the complete line of access across the old estate leading to Penkridge (edge of. shown left/lower side of map). Sadly the lack of study into our 'off road' network has left many unanswered questions, there be many reasons that do not immediately come to mind today. One such historic reason that has shown up elsewhere was the need to take milk to the rail stations prior to the Milk Marketing Board, set up after WW2, being considered unnecessary when the Definitive Map was compiled. But the purpose of the Definitive Map (DM) was to create access to the countryside.


Lost Ways are often little bits of the jigsaw, misplaced in time, which could add up to a more complete access network that serves the needs of the 21st century. Penkridge Rail station still operates, despite the closure of many stations that could give access off main line rail to the countryside.


Were the unpaved roads of the defunct Teddesley Park Estate considered to be accessible? This was a mistake that was frequently made by the original compilers of the DM and this would be supported by the Rights of Way that finish and points 3 and 4. There is another anomaly on the  eastern side of Cannock Chase caused by the seeming respect for the privacy of the Earl of Anglesea's Beaudesert Estate, only the Estate was sold up and Beaudesert Hall allowed to fall into ruins a decade or more before the DM was compiled.


The original grand drive to the hall landscaped because of the location is now little more than a farm access track, but if was allowed to be included into the DM, it would now created a line of travel through the Chase that avoids urban sprawl. 

[youradvocate]

Just a small thing. At the end of your entry I read BWW, what is it?

[sussamb]

BWW = BareWireWalker 

[sussamb]

Were the unpaved roads of the defunct Teddesley Park Estate considered to be accessible?

I suspect they were.  If it was on my patch I'd be tempted to walk it just to see what, if anything, happens.  I do that frequently around Sussex and have only been challenged once, but even then was allowed to continue once I explained the situation.

[barewirewalker]

I commend your temerity, the access network needs to be tested and it is unfortunate that the results of those prepared to challenge the limitations of reasonable access cannot be published. I once was asked to submit some walk guides to a publication that claimed to be the best walks available as some of my improvements did not coincide with the actual constraints of the DM, my efforts were considered inadmissible.


Improvements in climbing have always occurred when perceived boundaries have been challenged and overcome, why not on the horizontal. 

[barewirewalker]

In the absence of any further comment from the OP, I should like to add another example of this sort of anomaly. There are many illogical and frustrating flaws in the access network. These will be side stepped by the followers of circular routes which are perceived as the normal form of leisure walking.


Walking to purpose, which may include targeted destinations is not recognised by the authorities, who look after the access network, and the importance of these anomalies does not get any attention.


The Coastal Paths can well be described as 'walking to purpose', the routes follow a geological feature. The SWCP generates £476,190.00 / mile per annum and the Welsh coastal path has earned £38,095.24 per mile per annum. A small and seemingly insignificant anomaly could make a route seem impossible or produce such an unattractive alternative route that it it makes the overall route worthless.


I believe that the OP's query shows some of the properties of this dilemma as does this example;



At the point of the RoW terminating at a white lane, the landowners has chosen to place a notice saying that there is no right of way on the back drive to Orleton Hall, so what was the original purpose of the footpath. The owners of the Estate would not have needed a right of Way. The rail and bus station are important destinations today, these are close to traditional market area of the town.


This example shares a link with the OP's dilemma, they are on a potential route across the middle of the country, from the east coast to the west coast.