Author Topic: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?  (Read 33104 times)

barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #30 on: 10:58:59, 04/05/16 »
An area without off highway RoW is a surefire way of finding lostways, the now chairman of the Shropshire Local Access Forum told me that bringing up the subject of 'lostways' is certain to annoy landowners, this may have been a warning; when he became chairman I got the order of the boot. I could not keep quiet on the subject because the more I have studied it the more I see the corruption of the definitive map as a factor that diminishes the effectiveness of the access network as infrastructure supporting the economy.
Gobowen Station has survived attempts to close it, but it is a prime example of the type railway stop that is close to the heart of access network, yet the major arteries are diseased and do not work as well a the terrain should allow.


To the east the access network is a mess, only mitigated by the canal system, but shows a jumble of declining estates, revived by high land prices and the mark of inefficient Parish Councils is dotted well out into the Shropshire countryside. Difficult pin an exact example so glaring as this chunk of footpath,west of the station, that must, surely!!,once have been tramped by the folk of Selattyn on the way to the station.


Before I leave my musings on this, 2 screen shots from google earth showing the route as it once might of been.






Top image shows the RoW's leading from the Station (E), the lostway leaves the highway at Bradhouse Farm and the second image picks up the lostway to where meets the highway to link into the current RoW network close to the top of the Selattyn ridge (W).

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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #31 on: 09:07:16, 16/05/16 »
In my previous post I said, "find an X zone and you will find a lost way", or words to that effect. Now there is a curious bit of mapping on the Landranger series. It is almost as if the Ordnance Survey is enamored of  our class system, a shaded grey area denoted 'Parkland or Ornamental Garden'. Sadly this demarcation often shows the ravages of time, permanent pasture ploughed up, and arable cropping taking the place of the grassland that was landscaped with a long drive up to hall or manor, a dwelling of large proportions and the home of a family with a name that will, almost certainly show up on past agendas of local or national politics.
Linked to this, I may be at risk of making a sweeping statement, but there is rarely a PRoW in these areas of parkland. Often from my observations these areas of parkland center on a much larger area without PRoWs. When a past President of the CLA, wrote about access, he said that we have the best network of footpaths in the world and in the same article expressed the opinion that it was made up 'shortcuts of yesteryear and past ways to work'. At the time the access network was first mapped by the OS, these large country houses set in 'Parkland' would have been a major employer and many would have walked to work.
Find an Area of Parkland and discover an X zone?


[/size]To the east the access network is a mess, only mitigated by the canal system, but shows a jumble of declining estates, revived by high land prices and the mark of inefficient Parish Councils is dotted well out into the Shropshire countryside. Difficult pin an exact example so glaring as this chunk of footpath,west of the station, that must, surely!!,once have been tramped by the folk of Selattyn on the way to the station.


It was by walking in the area that triggered my curiosity that brought the previous Lostway, that should have linked Gobowen Station with Selatyn, to my attention, but I had some few years ago time ago tried to puzzle the so called mess east of the Gobowen. Again by going for a walk in the area, it is possible to see that by not including the drives to large houses, the actual ways that originally formed the access network is incomplete.



6 areas of Parkland and if it was not for the canals there would be very little access. All of them center on a much wider area without footpaths. It is
Fernhill Hall, No.2 arrow, where I recently walked and found yet another anomaly that favours the landowner. I was trying to get from Whittington (bus stop) to Gobowen Station, without getting flattened as road kill and enjoy a little of the countryside in that area.



The parkland around Fernhill Hall is 50-60 acres depending on including the woodland adjacent to the house, the extended area of X zone is close to 1200 acres, close to the equivalent of 5 KM grid squares.


I walked out of Whittington North along the footpath that skirts the east side if the shades area, for about 1.5 km and then turned WNW toward Larches Wood to join up with the PRoW footpath, I found a way conveniently with style, gates and field margins, which led me to the Grey Path shown and to a gate on the road opposite the fingerpost to the footpath shown, leading from Little Fernhill. It was here that I actually saw signs of hostility, strategically placed barbed wire, chained and locked gates and rather unsafe structures to climb over.


Why is there a grey path shown on the above 1:25k OS map? The 1883 OS map shows it to Ferhill Hall, where from the back drive a pedestrian would be able to find another footpath, recorded as a PRoW and there is a destination that give reason to the whole length of way.





At first glance on today's mapping it is possible to miss the reason why the way through Fernhill Hall is a lost way, why would the people of Gobowen and beyond wish to walk all that way to the station? But there are 2 stations and one is for the now dismantled Cambrian Line and these are shown on the 1883 OS map.
The stiles put in place make me think that grant money is being spent on the area I took my little 'off Piste' detour and I suspect that "Conservation" is the buzz word. Public money from the generous drainage grants of the 1950's and 60's often got wetland like this into production, now it has become trendy for landowners to be conservationist. But the signs were that shooting was the main activity that conservation may have been motivated by.


Is the tax payer getting ripped off? Linking public transport into the access network makes the direct contacts that creates revenue, Gobwen is a rail link but it is sadly unattractive compared to Whittington with the Castle heaped with restoration funds and historically rich as a walk destination or objective.
 
That adds another saying; Find a Lost Way and Corruption of the Definitive Map is not Far Away. The missing part of the old route is to the advantage of the resident of the land the routes goes through. What is the point of the little bitty of PRoW footpath south of the Fernhill Xzone?
« Last Edit: 09:11:40, 16/05/16 by barewirewalker »
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #32 on: 14:12:55, 25/05/16 »
In my previous posts I have said that find an Xzone and you will  find a lostway. A more offbeat way of discovering an Xzone is to look up on an OS map the area where the high and mighty live.
Or even those people the newspapers like to write about.
So it was  with 'tongue in the cheek' that I looked up this lead, after reading a 'Sunday paper' a month or so ago,  Tara Palmer-Tomkinson is a name that appears with regularity and as she claims to be a 'country girl' and likes nothing better than to escape to the country, I wondered where that might be.
Just following 'on line' leads, with not too much knowledge of their acuracy, led me to this area of countryside that caught my eye as an X zone, centered on Dummer Grange in Hampshire, ? T. P-T family home.
Does it have a lost way?
And if it does, is it of any consequence?

 
[/URL]

 
What is the geography of this area that lacks PRoWs? Does it have an impact on the loacality? Not knowing the locality, I can only draw some conclusions from the evidence on the map.
It blocks E to W travel for 3.4 miles as the contiguous area spreads from the land east of Dummer Grange.

 
In 1887 the OS published a map that showed a Grange Farm, where Dummer Grange is now situated. This map also shows a footpath.
[/URL]
If that footpath had been included in the DM for the area, it would be the missing link in a direct route between Dummer and  Preston Candover, today it would allow a direct crossing of a road that must have changed since 1949 considerably.

 
[/URL]

 
And this is the sort of space a walker might expect, should the choice the of using the road to link the 2 ProWs be the option. The distance is 0.4 miles, is there missing from the access network  1mile of safe alternative.




 
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #33 on: 13:09:16, 28/05/16 »
Here is another picture (which is from the internet and from part of a search into Dummer Grange, I wonder why it is there, not because of it's scenic qualities) of the road that the Dummer Xzone will force the walker onto;
[/URL]

 
Charles Palmer Tomkinson owns a 1200 acre estate at Dummer according to Wikipedia, this is a little more than the average garden that landowners so often like to compare their circumstances to the rest of us, with the hack phrase "how would you like someone walking over your garden". Also previous OS maps have recorded a footpath, which could provide a safe option to walking around 700 paces along this road. My guess would be that CPT's land, free of ProWs, contributes mainly to the shape of this X zone.
Should a man, who taught Prince Charles to ski and described by wikipedia a 'Doyenne of the countyset', be set apart from the rest of society? To such an extent that his land management skills and responsibilities ignores a potential lostway on his property that has considerable benefit to society and economy. I have been involved in 'farm management', using a 6"/mile OS maps is a regular task associated with many management routines, both agricultural husbandry and farm management, so why not estate management. It is on such maps you will find the traces of these old ways and if they are not recorded it is probable that their exclusion is to do with the history of that land. If there is a safety issue, in any other managerial situation knowledge of  risk places an onus of responsibility to assess that risk. Landowners individually are only small occupiers of our countryside but their occupation of that space has implications on the rest of society,  much like any other business, such as cafe owner might put furniture on a pavement, to gain extra covers. However because the decisions about the formation of the DM was mainly made at parish and county level, it would seem that the interests of these individuals has taken precedence. Is this an example of such a case?

 
What of wider advantages, beyond the local amenity. There is modern infrastructure at the northern most tip of the X zone that shows how the old and the new can be complimentary to each other. Not on old maps.
[/URL]
A footbridge that gives direct crossing of a major highway (M3), linking pedestrian/leisure routes should be recognized as an important feature in the access network and part tourist infrastructure, how important?

 
There are some other features I have noticed exploring the map of this area, so I think it may well be worthwhile keeping an eye on Charles Palmer-Tomkinson's contibution or lack of it for a further post..

 
« Last Edit: 13:19:32, 28/05/16 by barewirewalker »
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #34 on: 13:19:33, 08/06/16 »

 
I took a virtual drive down this road, as the footpath shown on the 1880's map shows that it exits onto the road opposite the track now shown as a bridleway, Google's drivebye shows this.
[/URL]
One of the things that I have learnt from walking in the mid-Wales border lands, where the walk furniture expected by many in other parts of the country is still catching up with the RoW's, is how the old ways are demarked by the legacy of the past. So it was with little surprise that swinging Google north I find an open view of the terrain through a gateway. Not stupid, our ancestors, not likely to walk to no gap at all and have to jump over the hedge.
[/URL]
My guess would be that the lostway would come over the skyline, from Dummer Grange, approximately where the arrow points and the line on the map indicates a diagonal line acros the field. Would this be a valuable addition to the access network? It certainly looks safer than walking down that road. If the Scottish alternative of common sense applied the field margins, would create a route, which would not conflict with the cropping but the old maps shows a route one could argue gives a quality of way that allows the visitor to really appreciate the terrain.
[/URL]
Back to the other side of the road and looking south, the lostway joins directly into the RoW shown on todays OS map as a bridleway and can be seen as this track. The line of the footpath would, I think have led to the corner of the field shown to the right of the picture, maybe around where I have put the red arrow. This makes good use of the terrain, complimentary to the line offered the north section. A look at todays OS map shows that it links into a bridleway which appears to have no RoW linking it to any other part of public access.
So the benefit if this lostway could be also bringing into play a blind alley. Does this anomaly add to suspicion that the original intention of the 1949 Act was corrupted in favour of the resident landowner?
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phil1960

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #35 on: 13:56:50, 08/06/16 »
BWW I really have to take my hat off to you, credit where credit is due  O0
Touching from a distance, further all the time.

barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #36 on: 07:57:58, 09/06/16 »
BWW I really have to take my hat off to you, credit where credit is due  O0


Thanks Phil  O0
before I leave this particular example it may be worth looking at in the context of a smaller scale map.
The smaller scale map tend to generalize the areas and of course they do not hold the detail that will interest the walker, but it is possibly interesting to look at the more generalized overview here on this road map.

The shaded green areas roughly outline the North Wessex Downs, top left, and the East Hampshire AONB, lower right. Also of interest is the lower end of a rail line running south-east from Alton, The Watercress Line. Where the route I origininally traced on a 1:25k OS map leads to Four Marks station.
I never been in this part of the country, this purely following up a hunch explained earlier in my post. 
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #37 on: 10:11:44, 10/06/16 »
The original X zone which started this topic showed old ways that could join up with existing RoWs to make a line of travel of 10 miles across Shropshire.
On the second page of this topic, I have shown a X zone agravated by ways lost because of a WW2 airfield and its close relationship with another, which seems to have influenced the course of the Severn Way and taken it course away from an important geological feature related to that river. The Leaton Knowles/Berwick shows an anomaly which could be a difference of opinion between two parish councils but the advantage fall in favour of the greater privacy of the resident landowner.
The case of Broadfield Court X zone suggests the entire parish council of one or more CPCs went on extended leave during the compilation of the Definitive Map. This X zone lies in and interesting area of extended geography, especially if interest in long distance linear walking is growing.
The Dummer X zone reveals a lostway, which could make the access network in that area safer and a look at the extended geography shows major assets that can influence the economic importance of walking.
So how do our landowner view foopaths?
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #38 on: 18:33:32, 13/06/16 »
What is relevant about an article written 6 yrs ago, it is not often find in print the opinions of landowners, they are usually bawled at walkers across a field and if they are like the opinions I had leveled at me, so interlaced with the 'F' word as to be almost unintelligible. This was written by the Deputy President of the landowners' organisation shortly before he became president and the CLA published there first policy on Access for 15 year during his presidency.


They are some interesting points made;
Quote
rights of way provision would have to improve, both in terms of quality and quantity. Landowners would have to give more than they were taking away, thereby providing a net gain in access


Given this was his opinion 6 years ago has any actual action been seen from landowners that give credence to this statement. In fact it seems to be a sentiment that is missing from their attitudes.


He seems to be convinced that he knows what is wanted;
Quote
People want circular routes, easily followed and preferably somewhere they can park their car.


Does this mean any old track as long as it goes around in a circle, are we not allowed to reach features of interest, visit sites of historical interest?  Also our landowners forget a group of people without cars, walking allows them recreational exercise without the additional cost of equipment. Safe access to public transport could have been thought of. Perhaps the CLA have not noticed that the road network has got rather busier since the 'short cuts' of yesteryear were first walked.
Out of interest I have googled Harry Cotterell
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/features/countrynews/lateststory/4780865.Harry_is_the_perfect_choice_for_a_top_post_among_rural_watchdogs/
and thought look up Garnons on the OS map; it is not suprising, reading the link, that it sets a scenario for another X zone.





Quote
Our members know their own rights of way better than anybody else





Probably as well as the author of this article, has he failed to notice at least one feature which, at a guess, is within his estate.
The fact that Offers Dyke Path misses the real thing by so much might have imbued some deeper understanding about access than this article suggests.





Is he guilty by trivial dismissal, such as 'shortcuts' of yesteryear, of missing the real reason why the footpaths around his land appear to add up to a much longer way, with purpose that proves a wider and general usage? Can the grey paths, west of Garnons Hill, be lostways? They seem to fit into the RoW network as if they are missing parts of a jig saw puzzle. Add in Bridge Sollers, important infrastructure, which will have focused the routes people took in the past towards this river crossing, it becomes hard to believe that these 'grey paths' on the Garnon Estate are just internal ways.

If they are, should we to trust the formation of a " A Modern Network for Modern Needs" to someone who can miss such obvious features on their own home ground, in fact can the country afford too.
« Last Edit: 18:41:22, 13/06/16 by barewirewalker »
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #39 on: 12:00:53, 15/06/16 »
Being foully verbally abused by the occupier of land, whilst enjoying a walk in the countryside is the experience that started me on the path that now finds me writing this topic. Curiously it was another topic,which led me to open up the map, where the verbal abuse took place. Two maps and two different stand poinsts on access, I think I have learnt from that original map, because it has been the start of a learning curve and I have discovered. Whereas Harry Cotterell has lived much of his life in the area of the second map and from his writing, its seems that he has learnt nothing other than to re-inforce the prejudices that are inherent in the level of society he was brung-up in.

 
The two maps of 1:50k OS area about the same area and have a similar feature, bottom left hand side, a dwelling set in parkland and  the occupants of both these dwellings at the time of the compilation of the definitive maps was compiled probably considered themselves members of the same social class.


 
In Gregynog two spinster sisters lived out long lives, well repected but declining fortunes, if the very old farmer I spoke to on a hill overlooking the house told me true, they did not seem to be politically active locally, but academically active as recorded here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregynog_Hall
not the sort of people to interfere with the working of local government for there own advantage.

 
Wheras the map of a similar area from Garnons, where family what has inspired Harry Cotterell to be politically active shows a totally different picture. The incidence of access is low, yet HC paints a rosy picure of access network which needs some trimming, if we are to believe his assertions.
]
The experience I had on a track from Tregynon set me on a path to try to understand, why a working farmer would be so incensed that he felt he had to bombard me foul language, whilst I was squarely on a RoW, yet a map with barely any RoWs can give the President of the CLA, who oversaw their policy on access, the experience to have a working knowledge of the access network.

 
It is study, which has convinced  me the reason of my verbal abuse on the trail is down to the CLA's public relations activity, which has been directed at their drive to increase membership.
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barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #40 on: 11:49:06, 19/06/16 »
I have started to look at maps of our historical footpath network with an eye that connects to the part of my brain, which wants to learn. It is easy to look for examples which back up prejudice.  
The pre 1900 series of OS maps are a snapshot in time, when more people walked, there of course ancient ways very much older and I think these are on other maps, but not in so much detail. Harry Cotterell is right to say that many old footpaths are taken from a time when walking was a necessity, but how wrong is he to dismiss so many as shortcuts of yesteryear. Perhaps before we chuck these old ways into the dustbin of 2026 we should take a closer look, if there is something to learn, those people, who claim to write common sense about access, maybe should question their understanding of the access network our current Definitive Map is based on. Many of the footpaths on the DM are recorded on these pre-1900 OS maps, some of them are just shortcuts but they take people of the highway, many more are much longer routes of the highway and this is what the 1949 act was all about.  
I learn from google that Harry Cotterell lives at Garnons, runs the estate there and likes to think of himself as more of a farmer than landowner.  
Taking a closer look a HC's home ground, what can we understand from a map;  
[/URL]  
Grey paths pass right in front of the house, these often appear on older OS maps marked as footpaths and there continuity of way can be traced well back through adjacent sheets going back over several editions.  
 
On the 1885 map the same paths are there. But there is an extra one, showing an aditional line of approach from the north.A close look at this footpath highlighted red shows that it leaves the drive to Garnons house and crosses a field boundary to intersect a path, which is a junction of 5 paths. Infers a destination which is not the house and a clear intention to avoid the house.  

 
Footpath highlighted in green would seem to be the route to the house by workers and tradesmen.  

 
Footpath highlighted in blue shows a clear intention of one or more of the routes shown joining the interection of byepassing the house.  
Would this have been tolerated by the residents of Garnons? If the passage of people across the estate was too important, could not be stopped or was not visible,come to mind as reasons. A look at OS Explorer shows a drop of 30m within a 100m from the front of the house.  

 

 
So I Googled Garnons and gothis in the views of.  
 
A closer look at a recent OS map using MM's elevation profile shows this;  
[/URL]  
 
Now if the old reasons were important enough to pass the front of the house and those reasons still hold good today, an organisation that has a national policy on access should surely have the knowledge to understand the reasoning about such an example.  
Also is that clump of trees in a position where the front drive joins another serving a purpose. The L shaped wood adjacent would seem to be there to screen a building, part of the working estate? from the view from the house.  
BWW
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ron6632

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #41 on: 13:59:28, 21/06/16 »
Some very interesting anomalies there.


On the current map, most of these footpaths exist (or are at least marked), but not as PRoW's, with quite a substantial network in the woodland behind the house.  Are these permissive paths, or are they unavailable to the public?


There are a number that have been lost, specifically one to the West which would have passed straight through what is currently a large orchard, which would have helped connect several through routes.


Looking further afield on the current map, to the East, there is a missing bridleway between Bishopstone and Caroline Coppice (note the small spur from the main Bridleway you can see skirting the North of the large woodland in the picture below).  This estate seems to be riddled with paths that are not classed as PRoW


ETA - a permissive path would be orange.  The black dotted lines just note the existence of a path and not its designation.

barewirewalker

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #42 on: 14:39:50, 21/06/16 »
I some times think that the OS include grey paths as a bit of a protest to remind landowners, what was once on the map. You will almost certainly get a 'flea in your ear' if you try to walk them and get caught. Many 'Grey Paths' do not exist on the ground, as visible ways.
As regards the woodland the are probably 'Rydes' for woodland management and also used in game shooting. Those that might be footpaths can usual be inferred from connections with footpaths linking them outside of the wood. Obviously what I am trying to point out are lost ways that once served the community and the landowners chose to go against the will of parliament by not putting them forward for inclusion on the Definitive Map.


Where the DM has been more honestly compiled the RoW through woodland will be highlighted and can either marked as a track or a footpath.


Thanks for your interest. Are you by any chance local to this area?




« Last Edit: 14:52:23, 21/06/16 by barewirewalker »
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ron6632

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #43 on: 21:24:56, 21/06/16 »
No I'm not local.


It was Offa's Dyke that caught my attention here and as I had walked the path a couple of years ago I went looking for the route - some distance to the west.


I've got a fascination with maps (and an OS maps subscription) so I find this kind of thing fascinating.

Percy

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Re: Xzones or Black Holes on our maps?
« Reply #44 on: 21:37:58, 21/06/16 »
I some times think that the OS include grey paths as a bit of a protest to remind landowners, what was once on the map. You will almost certainly get a 'flea in your ear' if you try to walk them and get caught. Many 'Grey Paths' do not exist on the ground, as visible ways.
As regards the woodland the are probably 'Rydes' for woodland management and also used in game shooting. Those that might be footpaths can usual be inferred from connections with footpaths linking them outside of the wood. Obviously what I am trying to point out are lost ways that once served the community and the landowners chose to go against the will of parliament by not putting them forward for inclusion on the Definitive Map.


Where the DM has been more honestly compiled the RoW through woodland will be highlighted and can either marked as a track or a footpath.


Thanks for your interest. Are you by any chance local to this area?
I always read your posts with great interest but then have to conclude that they're almost completely incoherent.  :(

 

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