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Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: Barmy_Army on 16:24:28, 18/11/19

Title: Hardshell
Post by: Barmy_Army on 16:24:28, 18/11/19
Hello again, after the wonderful advice received a few weeks back in my general winter hiking gear thread I've saved a lot of money and hassle regarding layers for winter hiking. However, I'm still stuck searching for a hardshell jacket.


I was tempted by the Rab Downpour - but comments about pertex [compared with GTX and e-vent] are putting me off.
I also found a 3-layer e-vent jacket [Fjern orkan ] on sports pursuit - which sounds more robust, but I've not heard of the brand.


If anyone has any other suggestions up to about £140 or owns either of these two jackets, I would love to hear it!



Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: gunwharfman on 18:17:49, 18/11/19
When you write hardshell I presume you mean a waterproof jacket? Sometimes I get very confused as to what these words actually mean?
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: gunwharfman on 18:21:01, 18/11/19
I Googled 'define hardshell jacket' and it came back as a waterproof/windproof jacket. My jacket cost me £15 and works almost perfectly.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: Owen on 20:19:01, 18/11/19
I would recommend Mountain Equipment, I have two of their jackets and they're both excellent. The first one I got is a Firefox jacket very lightweight at 385g. I got it mainly for long backpacking trips. I've had it five years and it's been reliabley waterproof even in persist day after day rain.


As it's so lightweight I was concerned it could wear where the heavy rucksack straps rub over the shoulders. So, I brought a second jacket a Karakorum jacket, made of a slightly heavier gore-tex but still only 685g for a XL. This one I mainly use as my winter jacket, for walking, climbing and skiing in the Highlands. So far the Firefox jacket hasn't worn as much as I'd feared.


The Karakorum jacket has been replaced by the Lhotse jacket, I think. The newer Firefox jackets have an "active fit" i.e. tight on a racing snake, so better try one on before buying. The other jackets in their range also have a good reputation. Before I got the Firefox I had an older Mountain Equipment jacket for over twenty years. Unlike GWM I find it is worth paying for quality.


I've not tried e'vent but Rab clothing also has an excellent reputation.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: richardh1905 on 21:52:33, 18/11/19
The Mountain Equipment Lhotse jacket is a great bit of kit, but rather beyond your budget at £300, Barmy.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: BuzyG on 08:57:39, 19/11/19
If you can find the budget.  Mountain Equipment do some great lightweight bomb proof hard shell jackets. I am no label man, but after waisting my hard earned on three cheap, so called waterproof jackets, that all leeked, I shelled out, (see what I did there), on a ME Janak Jacket and it has been just amazing.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: gunwharfman on 09:45:49, 19/11/19
It is my opinion that staying dry is not the be-all and end-all of anyone's hiking experience. I cannot of course call upon any formal research to support my view, I have only my own experience to go by, but I maintain that rain does not happen as much as some people/organisations believe or suggest. So if I just take my personal experience of the last 10 years, I had days when it rained, I had days when it rained hard and possibly I had days when it rained all-day as well, but my memory of those days tells me that it rarely if ever rained at the same intensity all of the time. So from my viewpoint and learning from my past experience, shelling out as I did about 7-8 years ago over £200 for a keep-me-dry-jacket (which didn't keep me dry, I was still wet inside through condensation) was just a waste of money! And don't forget, even after buying the jacket I then had to add the cost of how to keep my legs and bum dry as well.

So I decided to beat rain at the cheapest and most effective cost that I could think of and to spend the money that I'd saved on more important items of clothing, that is when it's dry and not raining. If I want to buy another expensive jacket I can, but for me, the question is, what is the point? When its raining I don't care what I look like I just want to be dry!

My jacket is not perfect but it does the job well, for me its just a prototype, to prove to myself that my thinking and practice is sound. I hope that one day I can find the real jacket that I am looking for, properly designed for wet weather rather than, as I see it being a fashion statement for me. The nearest answer to what I am looking for at the moment is the Marmot Precip, single skinned, cheapish,  but for me as a design is just a bit too short! I would still need to purchase something extra to keep my legs dry.

Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: Owen on 09:53:42, 19/11/19
The Mountain Equipment Lhotse jacket is a great bit of kit, but rather beyond your budget at £300, Barmy.


Ouch!! Didn't know they'd gone up that much. I only paid that much for both jackets.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: richardh1905 on 17:44:05, 19/11/19

Ouch!! Didn't know they'd gone up that much. I only paid that much for both jackets.

£370 on the ME website, best I have seen online recently is £295 at Gaynors.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: April on 20:10:31, 19/11/19
I have a Rab Downpour jacket. I bought it in Nov 18 I think. The first time I wore it in rain it didn't seem to be very waterproof and I was not impressed with it. I have used it in rain since (quite a few times  ;D) and apart from the pockets filling up with water the rest of it has performed better and I've been dry underneath it except for the wrist area of my sleeves. I have killed two phones though so if you do buy one do not keep your phone in the pockets! Would I recommend it? I'm not sure tbh, I don't know if I would buy another one even though I have kept using it for a year. It does absorb water and becomes very heavy when it rains for any length of time. I haven't felt the need to go and buy a replacement yet so I might need another year using it to give you a better answer  ;)
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: BuzyG on 09:31:23, 20/11/19
It is my opinion that staying dry is not the be-all and end-all of anyone's hiking experience. I cannot of course call upon any formal research to support my view, I have only my own experience to go by, but I maintain that rain does not happen as much as some people/organisations believe or suggest. So if I just take my personal experience of the last 10 years, I had days when it rained, I had days when it rained hard and possibly I had days when it rained all-day as well, but my memory of those days tells me that it rarely if ever rained at the same intensity all of the time. So from my viewpoint and learning from my past experience, shelling out as I did about 7-8 years ago over £200 for a keep-me-dry-jacket (which didn't keep me dry, I was still wet inside through condensation) was just a waste of money! And don't forget, even after buying the jacket I then had to add the cost of how to keep my legs and bum dry as well.

So I decided to beat rain at the cheapest and most effective cost that I could think of and to spend the money that I'd saved on more important items of clothing, that is when it's dry and not raining. If I want to buy another expensive jacket I can, but for me, the question is, what is the point? When its raining I don't care what I look like I just want to be dry!

My jacket is not perfect but it does the job well, for me its just a prototype, to prove to myself that my thinking and practice is sound. I hope that one day I can find the real jacket that I am looking for, properly designed for wet weather rather than, as I see it being a fashion statement for me. The nearest answer to what I am looking for at the moment is the Marmot Precip, single skinned, cheapish,  but for me as a design is just a bit too short! I would still need to purchase something extra to keep my legs dry.
In the summer I would agree with you.  Even if you are wet through you should be able to keep warm by simply walking.  In the winter I completely disagree.  Staying dry is very important, it really doesn't take that long to die of hypothermia on a British mountain in mid winter.  As a winter surfer of 25+ seasons being cold and wet is something I do no a fair bit about.  It's a lot warmer out at sea than on a mountain top and even with the best modern wetsuits 4 or 5 hours and your getting dangerous cold.
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: juliestephen on 11:45:55, 13/12/19
Hello Barmy_Army,

The hardshell jackets are designed for tough outdoor adventures.It has high waterproofing and wind proofing capability.
Do you want more reviews about Hardshell jacket means go for outdoorpursuits.com/best-hardshell-jackets/ where you can find the jackets for £150 itself.


Hope the answer will help you more..
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: jimbob on 13:06:48, 13/12/19
Screwfix selling Helly Hansen Haag for under £70.
These are waterproof and breathable.

They are favoured by construction workers and farming people

Had a look at them but don't need one,  yet. They look to be of the great quality you would expect from Helly.

Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: El Principe on 14:47:43, 14/12/19
I have an Arcteryx SL Beta Hybrid in dark blue. Absolutely phenomenal piece of kit, truly 4-season applicable (very lightweight) and looks amazing too.

But it was £350 approx.

I tried on around 10 jackets from various brands before settling on Arcteryx because the fit was better (not too long in length, roomy in shoulders and arms). Oh and the looks are much better.

Personally I would go for gore-tex because various other membranes are less reliable, in my experience.

If I wasn't wearing Arcteryx I would probably be wearing Mountain Equipment, Rab or Stellar Equipment (the latter actually use a DermizaxNX membrane, I use their trousers - excellent).

Check out https://www.outdoorgearlab.com (https://www.outdoorgearlab.com) for great product reviews.

Join sportpursuit.com for great deals on last season clothing. And lookout for a hardshell with pits zips, they are a must if you run warm or use it in warmer temperatures!!
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: Slowcoach on 16:45:38, 14/12/19
Ellis Brigham were selling ME Ogre jackets at half price last week. £130
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: watershed on 16:50:08, 14/12/19
 Hi, BA
the Montane Pac Plus Gore-Tex Jacket might fit the bill, it seems to get a good write up at a price near your budget. I see they are selling at about £150-£180 so shop around. £158.99 at Ultralight gear which gives free postage and are very reliable to deal with, I have used them to buy quite a few things.
I haven't got one of these jackets but the spec's look good at the price.
 I use a Rab Latok Alpine jacket for through hikes, it is dearer but reviews suggest it is particulary good for ventilation and high activity, I do like it, and have used it on two long hikes.
For day hikes with possible showers I use a RAB super Kinetic, which is incredible light and stretchy, but gets damp in heavy prolonged rain, especially at Ruck Sack contact areas. I have used this on one 200 mile hike but although I love the jacket found it wanting in a heavy torrential shower between Fort Augustus and Newtonmore.
                     
Title: Re: Hardshell
Post by: Flanners on 20:58:04, 14/12/19
I use a Rab Bergen eVent shell jacket for Autumn/Winter days out when it's going to be stormy, snow/sleet/rain etc, Rab Downpour Plus as a 3 Season shell in changeable conditions and a Marmot Precip for the backpack in Spring/Summer hiking. Rab Alpine/Nimbus/Cirrus etc for cold clear Winter walks and hikes.

Never have found the perfect waterproof, given I walk hot I find significant moisture on the inside, main concern is not really waterproofing as I have yet to find a true 'breatheable' shell garment (GoreTex being my worst experiences) but windproof to keep me from the windchill/cold.