Author Topic: Comfort in sustained rain?  (Read 6916 times)

Kev06

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #45 on: 09:10:53, 27/02/21 »
It is sometimes claimed that if gore-tex gets dirty then dampness can get through, by the contamination wicking it. But it has never happened to me, so not sure if people are just seeing the effects of reduced breathability. Certainly when the DWR fails, people have misinterpreted the reduced breathability from that as leaks.


For me (unless the shell is damaged or an opening is presented to the rain) it is only ever the breathability that has resulted in wetness. Which sadly is pretty normal in less cold conditions - even with well maintained gore-tex. For all the hype on breathability, the stay dry promise doesn't seem to cover getting sodden from the inside, but personally I don't find the resulting sauna any more pleasant whichever direction it originates from.  The new Pro version does sound significantly better, but so costly that I've yet to try it.

Kev06

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #46 on: 00:26:53, 12/03/21 »
Following on from the helpful suggestions, I bagged a used goretex-pro jacket to try, by mountain equipment. Quite surprised how close fitting it is, their small is said to be for a 38"-40" chest and I'm 39", yet I find it snug even just over a t-shirt. However, I'm hoping that might be good for my purpose, since (as I understand it) air gaps can slow the transfer of sweat and also allow parts of the shell to become cold and clammy.

It was wet here today but reasonably cool, so not very demanding conditions to test in. But I stomped up a few hills and it didn't get oppressive or damp inside, so that is encouraging.

I'd also ordered a HH 'lifa active' base-layer to team with it, but there was a stock problem - in fact many things like this seem to be out of stock all over (not sure if it is just me being unseasonal, or if it is pandemic related). So I decided to order an odlo 'active f-dry' base layer instead, which is also a dual material/layer approach to wicking and seems well regarded in fields like cycling and running. (Possibly even more open weave ones would be better, but I'm struggling enough with close fitting, without also looking like fishnets). So high hopes when that arrives, too.
« Last Edit: 00:34:15, 12/03/21 by Kev06 »

richardh1905

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #47 on: 08:41:21, 12/03/21 »
Following on from the helpful suggestions, I bagged a used goretex-pro jacket to try, by mountain equipment. Quite surprised how close fitting it is, their small is said to be for a 38"-40" chest and I'm 39", yet I find it snug even just over a t-shirt. However, I'm hoping that might be good for my purpose, since (as I understand it) air gaps can slow the transfer of sweat and also allow parts of the shell to become cold and clammy.

It was wet here today but reasonably cool, so not very demanding conditions to test in. But I stomped up a few hills and it didn't get oppressive or damp inside, so that is encouraging.


Yes, there is a trend for close fitting shells, something for people to be aware of.
WildAboutWalking - Join me on my walks through the wilder parts of Britain

gunwharfman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #48 on: 09:30:44, 12/03/21 »
I've tried close-fitting, not to my liking, especially finding when there isn't enough room underneath to 'layer up' as I became colder and colder. My yardstick is if I cant fit my down jacket underneath comfortably I don't want to know. It's not that I will take it with me as such, it just seems to indicate to me how close-fitting I shouldn't go to.


Kev06

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #49 on: 09:56:45, 12/03/21 »
Yeah, I've always gone large enough to accommodate as many mid layers as may be wanted, even in the depths of winter. Though thinking about it now, that usually only lasts a couple of months, and of course makes the shell really quite baggy and flappy for most of the year (yet not in a nice airy way, like a poncho).

So this more snug fit is quite a departure, and initially seemed like a mistake. However, I've already grown to quite like it, and of course it is the milder and warmer times of year when I most want the benefits that I'm hoping it'll bring. So perhaps it could be worth reserving my old/bigger classic gore-tex jacket for winter layering, and (if it works out) this newer one for the other three seasons. Possibly also think about an outer layer of insulation for breaks, rather than a mid layer - if it is seriously throwing it down I tend not to stop anyway.

All just possibilities at the mo, but seems worth thinking about. I haven't been overwhelmed by my current/past solutions, so could be worth at least trying a new way.
« Last Edit: 10:00:18, 12/03/21 by Kev06 »

gunwharfman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #50 on: 12:27:15, 12/03/21 »
It was raining and drizzling when I went out for my off-road run this morning so I tried just wearing my Brynge string vest and my Rab Kinetic on top. I found it worked surprisingly well, I felt warm enough, I perspired but didn't feel wet and when I got to my halfway rest spot I just took off my jacket and let the breeze dry me off, that worked well and only took about 3 minutes. If I'd been wearing my merino or my bamboo baselayer then feeling dry would have taken a lot longer. At the moment I'm just trying to use every weather type and torso clothing combinations to help me decide what gear to take with me when I next hike.

Kev06

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #51 on: 13:41:15, 12/03/21 »
Another useful post, thank you! That is very much along the lines I'm hoping for myself, with the synthetic base-layer and a reasonably breathable shell, so is quite encouraging.

I don't understand why I don't get on so well with merino, as it is often described as non-itch. But I also find that it feels continually damp once I've warmed up (which also isn't what people tend to say about it), so going for wicking and fast drying seems like the way to go. Really just a comfort barrier between the skin and the often cold/clammy shell, that otherwise interferes as little as possible with the normal process of sweating away the heat.

Though in cooler times I could try some thin merino over it, perhaps. Might possibly provide a temporary home for moisture, away from the skin, when short periods of high activity outstrip the shell's breathability. Though I think simple/cheap fleecy stuff might provide better actual throughput of moisture for more sustained activity.
Cheers,
Kev

Birdman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #52 on: 18:33:56, 12/03/21 »
If you hike in the rain you will get wet Smiley
Either from the rain or from condensation inside your jacket. It's a fact of life. Don't get worked up about it.
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Kev06

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #53 on: 19:26:33, 12/03/21 »
Yes indeed. That is why the point behind this thread is not about staying dry, but rather to stay more comfortable. So in all likelihood managing the moisture and temperature better, rather than expecting to be rid of it.

I've been through a long phase of getting wet rather than fully keeping out the rain, and it could be that is still the best way in warmer seasons. But on very wet days it definitely has its limits of enjoyability, whilst at least the moisture and heat coming from inside is of finite quantity. So dealing with that (nicely) seems worth another go.

Rain used to be part of the fun in a way, on purely recreational walks. But now I walk all the time and in whatever weather, I think it would be nice if relatively simple things could improve the experience somewhat - but either way, I'm not in danger of getting worked up about it so no worries there. :)

gunwharfman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #54 on: 20:48:28, 12/03/21 »
I agree with you totally Birdman, which is why I look for natural ways to try to keep me dry as possible. In my experience, most rainy days have lulls in them (not all though, I've been in some real bummers) and that's the main reason I like to buy garments with full zips. In a lull, I open the zip, it helps to dry the inner perspiration fairly quickly, if it's real wetness from the outside it's often more difficult. It's just a chore that sometimes I need to go through.

Birdman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #55 on: 09:04:28, 13/03/21 »
I agree with you totally Birdman, which is why I look for natural ways to try to keep me dry as possible. In my experience, most rainy days have lulls in them (not all though, I've been in some real bummers) and that's the main reason I like to buy garments with full zips. In a lull, I open the zip, it helps to dry the inner perspiration fairly quickly, if it's real wetness from the outside it's often more difficult. It's just a chore that sometimes I need to go through.


Yes, the most effective way to prevent/ get rid of condensation is simply venting. During a lull, just zip your jacket open and you will dry pretty quickly. I also find that armpit zips work quite well.
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

Kev06

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #56 on: 11:20:49, 13/03/21 »
It does surprise me that there haven't been more developments with venting. There are front/chest zips these days as an alternative to pit-zips, but otherwise not a lot seems to be greatly different from years ago. In fact at one time there were jackets with overlap-style vents, which would work well in the rain (provided it wasn't being blown upwards) but I've not seen those lately.

I suppose many membranes don't breath well (or at all) until a sweaty differential has built up, which vents might prevent. Or perhaps adding vents doesn't look good when trying to market breathable technology as if it performs akin to a net curtain. It also seems there's more crossover in application too, so jackets that are expected to also cope with things like climbing might not be optimum for walking. Or probably I'm over-thinking and its simply fashion :)

That said, Patagonia have done some interesting things, I quite like they way they think and have got on well with their wind-proof layers in surprisingly heavy intermittent rain. Unfortunately their more water-resistant innovations seem fairly warm, but it is encouraging that such things exist.

Though venting aside, Gore-tex look to have finally made some substantial improvements, too. If I understand correctly the pro and active versions are both more breathable and even slightly air permeable at last, so I'm looking forward to seeing if this time expectations might be at least a bit more supported.
« Last Edit: 11:26:18, 13/03/21 by Kev06 »

Birdman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #57 on: 12:08:50, 13/03/21 »
The Achilles-heel of all breathable jackets is really the Durable Water Repellent (DWR) coating, which is really not durable at all in my experience. Once your breathable jacket wets out, it's no better than a plastic bag.
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jimbob

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #58 on: 12:20:03, 13/03/21 »
Pit zips. I have a venerable jacket that has pit zips.   I opened them on first use years ago and have never, ever closed them since. Strangely for whatever reason rain has never been a problem in that area. Thinking about it,  for me, I don't think the actual zips are necessary, permanent pit venting seems to work. And can I say if it works on the hills in Northumberland with the rain coming at you horizontally from the German sea then it may work anywhere in the UK. As they say, when the wind is from the east tis neither fit for man nor beast.
Too little, too late, too bad......

Birdman

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Re: Comfort in sustained rain?
« Reply #59 on: 12:31:44, 13/03/21 »
@jimbob, yes surprisingly little water comes in through the pit-zips. That is my experience too. For me, most water is usually entering through my sleeves, because I (hill)walk with poles so my arms are more or less horizontal and sometimes slightly up.
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

 

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