Oops she did it again

[Andies]

Mrs A has been caught tresspassing again 
A walk with son two and his pooch strayed somewhat from the rights of way, and they were spotted by the landowner who raced to the scene in his pickup. Usual stuff from him but it was amazing how the tone of the landowner changed once son two had mentioned that he was a policeman. Perhaps this is the way forward for walking all those lost ways 
Anyway Mrs A has said just like last time that it won't happen again 

[gunwharfman]

I've been running through a private area since the beginning of lockdown but so far I haven't seen any landowner or their staff! I've had my spiel prepared for months, along the lines of "Am I hurting your land?" "There's always someone like you out to spoil other peoples fun" "So, sue me!" Something like that, maybe less maybe more, what I will actually say will happen on the day and a lot will depend on his or her opening words. But if he or she is carrying a gun I'll just say sorry and plead innocence.

[ninthace]

Under current English law if am on someone else's property and I not on CROW land or a Public Right of Way, then if challenged I would have no alternative but to apologise and politely explain what I was doing there and ask if I may continue.  I am too good a navigator to plead igonorance.  If I am refused permission to continue then I would offer to leave.  There is no point in a confronation, it would achieve nothing and legally I am in the wrong.
On the other hand, if I am where I am allowed to be, then I would equally poltely point out that I had a right to be there and would endeavour to prove it with my phone, gps or map.  If I was not allowed to continue then I would leave, saying that I intended to report the matter.
Bottom line, I may not like it but until the law is changed, if I am trespassing I am in the wrong amd there is no point in arguing with the landowner, better to get the law changed.

[cornwallcoastpathdweller]

I've been running through a private area since the beginning of lockdown but so far I haven't seen any landowner or their staff! I've had my spiel prepared for months, along the lines of "Am I hurting your land?" "There's always someone like you out to spoil other peoples fun" "So, sue me!" Something like that, maybe less maybe more, what I will actually say will happen on the day and a lot will depend on his or her opening words. But if he or she is carrying a gun I'll just say sorry and plead innocence.

I am surprised by your attitude here to be honest.


If i went running through your private back garden would you just wave at me smile and let me carry on? 
i thought not.
Terrible advert for our hobby to behavemin such a manner.

[cornwallcoastpathdweller]

Under current English law if am on someone else's property and I not on CROW land or a Public Right of Way, then if challenged I would have no alternative but to apologise and politely explain what I was doing there and ask if I may continue.  I am too good a navigator to plead igonorance.  If I am refused permission to continue then I would offer to leave.  There is no point in a confronation, it would achieve nothing and legally I am in the wrong.
On the other hand, if I am where I am allowed to be, then I would equally poltely point out that I had a right to be there and would endeavour to prove it with my phone, gps or map.  If I was not allowed to continue then I would leave, saying that I intended to report the matter.
Bottom line, I may not like it but until the law is changed, if I am trespassing I am in the wrong amd there is no point in arguing with the landowner, better to get the law changed.

Exactly the right thing to do, down to a t.

[barewirewalker]

I am surprised by your attitude here to be honest.


If i went running through your private back garden would you just wave at me smile and let me carry on? 
i thought not.
Terrible advert for our hobby to behavemin such a manner.

The flaw in this analogy is scale and the countryside visitor not drawing attention to it is the reason why political opinion has not been aroused within the general public and the media to the selfish occupation of countryside without regard to how that occupation affects the wider community.

If more acted both actually and virtually to show the obvious flaws in our access network and challenged outdated notions of Squiredom a hobby might be allowed to grow in a sport that serves the young as useful training and benefit all of our mental and physical health.

I doubt the OP receives a subsidy for field margins, which we all pay towards, for parts of his garden that is left free of cultivation.

[April]

I was expecting you to reply BWW 


Where would all of us walkers be without the Kinder Trespass of 1932?

[Jac]

I was expecting you to reply BWW 


Where would all of us walkers be without the Kinder Trespass of 1932?

Well said

[ninthace]

I was expecting you to reply BWW 


Where would all of us walkers be without the Kinder Trespass of 1932?

Absolutely, but not the same thing.  The mass trespass was a pollical action which I would put  in the "Better to get the law changed" category that I alluded to.  I doubt further reform will ever be achieved my multiple uncoordinated individual trespass events.   Surely it is better to campaign and persuade rather than confront?.  Confrontation just causes people to take more entrenched positions.

[Andies]

I am surprised by your attitude here to be honest.


If i went running through your private back garden would you just wave at me smile and let me carry on? 
i thought not.
Terrible advert for our hobby to behavemin such a manner.

I suspect gunwharfman's  back garden doesn't run to a few hundred acres, but then I might be wrong?

I was expecting you to reply BWW 


Where would all of us walkers be without the Kinder Trespass of 1932?

Exactly there are times when breaking the law might be considered reasonable?
To be clear I have tresspassed for a number of reasons:
1. I have genuinely been lost and strayed as a result;
2. I have taken an alternative route to avoid an obstruction or a dangerous situation such as cattle or busy road;
3. I believe a route has been falsely not included on the definitive map. By that I consider it's exclusion therefrom has resulted from either poor adherence to the process of establishing this or down right corruption by the land owning classes.
It is all to easy to say obey the law to me as a  walker when the very place I am now forbidden to walk has resulted from a crime committed against me and others by a landowner in the past. I know many will take issue with my stance on this but this is where I find my experiences have taken me. To be excluded from so much of this country by landowners who have all too often acquired that land from profits derived in the past from the worst excesses of our colonial past doesn't sit well with me. In this part of Suffolk there are a number of large estates whose history owes much to the shameful attitudes of the past. Their belief in entitlement often persists as manifest in their corruption of the definitive map and consequently, for what it is worth, I will keep making the argument not to just accept the current system.

[WhitstableDave]

Just a thought...

If trespass becomes a criminal offence, is it possible that making a forum post (i.e. a social media post) that appears to encourage others to commit trespass might be considered an act of incitement (to commit a criminal offence)? Might it also be possible that a forum owner who does not remove such posts might be open to a charge of conspiracy to incite others to commit a criminal offence?

As I said, it's just a thought - but it might be applicable before long. I don't think that incitement or conspiracy to incite can be applied to civil offences, but I'm pretty sure they can be applied to criminal ones...

[pleb]

Is nobody going to say "female navigators"? 

[pdstsp]

It is all to easy to say obey the law to me as a  walker when the very place I am now forbidden to walk has resulted from a crime committed against me and others by a landowner in the past. I know many will take issue with my stance on this but this is where I find my experiences have taken me. To be excluded from so much of this country by landowners who have all too often acquired that land from profits derived in the past from the worst excesses of our colonial past doesn't sit well with me. In this part of Suffolk there are a number of large estates whose history owes much to the shameful attitudes of the past. Their belief in entitlement often persists as manifest in their corruption of the definitive map and consequently, for what it is worth, I will keep making the argument not to just accept the current system.

Well put Andies, and I for one, agree 

[ninthace]

Is nobody going to say "female navigators"? 

Not me Chief!  Mrs N is left/right challenged when faced with a map under husband induced stress, that is why I have a satnvav in the car, but I let her program it.  Out walking, she trusts me completely, though that does not stop here muttering if we end up in a muddy bit not marked on the map (another OS shortcoming    )

[cornwallcoastpathdweller]

Obviously a polarising point then.
I still do not see whay people should be allowed to roam at will through others property, and then be happy with creating intentional confrontation when told to leave?
Im sure all those that agree with such a view would be quite happy for people to roam at will through their private gardens also?  maybe their private lounge? where does that viewpoint end?
Trespass however you look at it is against the law, and to suggest abusing somebody who tells you to stop is just creating a whole additional issue for no gain at all. 
Doesnt do the image of walkers any good in the countryside does it.