Author Topic: Boots recommendation - can't believe I'm having to do this so soon.  (Read 22110 times)

GnP

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
I did get into the whole idea of barefoot shoes/boots at one time and the concept appealed . The reality for me was different though as I like the idea of my feet being well protected from heavy thorns or anything sharp , come to that .
I wear boots at the moment with soles that flex relatively easy but that gives me a better sense of what is underneath my feet.

The idea that our ankles need strong support though is something I have problems with . Our feet and legs have developed very well entirely on their own over eons .
I have twisted my ankle slightly a few times on stones etc , but I feel that if we stay reasonably fit and conditioned then a slight twist is not going to bother a person much . On the other hand a pot hole or a stone underneath our boot may still end up damaging an ankle even with leather wrapped around our ankles ...& I agree with Ronin that if boots are too stiff then I get too much of a vague feel for what I am walking on .

I like the look of the Altberg Sneekers because they look like something that would allow a feel for what is lying underneath & be comfortable , and because of them being high might be nice and water proof in long grass etc, as long as the leather is looked after well . With all the rain we have had in the last six months I`m getting through Graingers G Wax like it is going out of fashion... :o


It is the usual problem though in that how do we know if a boot will fit well unless we try them on , and at the moment it is mail order or wait a few months. ...
A night under silnylon. Doesn't have the same ring to it.

WhitstableDave

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3254
I agree with comments in the last two posts concerning the use of trail running shoes rather than boots.

I should point out though that the soles on trail runners vary tremendously and that getting bruised feet is unlikely nowadays. Or at least, it should be if the right choice of shoes is made!

For example, a very popular trail shoe at the moment is the Hoka One One Speedgoat 4. The foam cushioning (midsole) under the heel is 32mm thick, and 28mm thick under the forefoot. And the Vibram outsole has 5mm lugs, which adds up to a good inch-and-a-half of protection underfoot.

Decent less well-cushioned trail runners usually have a stiff rock plate between the midsole and the outsole, which is supposed to protect feet from... well, rocks. Recently, carbon fibre plates (popular in expensive road running shoes) have started to appear in trail running shoes - at a price!

The uppers on trail runners also vary considerably. Super-light shoes might offer little in the way of foot protection, while heavier ones will have tougher toe-protectors and mesh.
Walk, Jog, Run : our YouTube video channel.

Kev06

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Much as I'm a boot fan, I struggle to accept that they give quite the levels of ankle support often claimed; once they're worn in, even taller leather ones are so flexible that they seem to offer fairly little in that regard. For me, the ankle protection is more about shielding from the environment being walked on (or very often through!). Probably thats quite dependent on the type of terrain, but the other clincher for me is that I get much less sliding and friction in the fit of boots than in shoes, especially on downhill or uneven terrain, so can lace less tightly and so more comfortably.

I've tried the altberg defenders. Brilliant construction, but never fitted me properly. Sloppy fit, loose heel, narrow toebox. Lots of people love them find them comfortable though!
Altberg's Aforme last has a closer heel fitting and seems a bit more modern and sculpted generally, supposedly taking some direction from sports shoes. Unfortunately whilst it is used on some of their civilian boots, the only military boot that (I think) they use it on is their newer 'ops' boot, which doesn't seem at all common/cheap second hand (presumably not standard issue) and so I've never tried it. I too would like a better toe shape than the defenders offer, though might struggle if the last is narrower around mid-foot rather than just the heel.

richardh1905

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12710
I'm not a fan of the trend amongst some manufacturers to cut away the boot at the back of the heel - less support, and a way in for water when you are splashing through bog.
WildAboutWalking - Join me on my walks through the wilder parts of Britain

kinkyboots

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1535
Much as I'm a boot fan, I struggle to accept that they give quite the levels of ankle support often claimed; once they're worn in, even taller leather ones are so flexible that they seem to offer fairly little in that regard. For me, the ankle protection is more about shielding from the environment being walked on (or very often through!).

The Altberg Defender was never intended to be used for recreational hiking purposes. As you say there's very little support above the ankle once worn in due to the softer leather used above ankle level in their construction. At best the Altberg Defender is designed for use on low level terrain i.e the sort of terrain where most military training exercises take place. When the army needs to go on higher level terrain they tend to move up a level and use a sturdier boot.

I often recommend the Altberg Defender on here as suitable for use as a daily dog walking boot and for most people that's usually on low level terrain. They're cheap to buy and cheap enough to replace when the soles wear out and they dry quickly so are suitable for daily dog walking use. There's absolutely no point paying for resoling when new replacements can be had for around the same cost.

The Altberg Military Ops boot you mention is a relatively new addition to the website although I'm not sure if they have an MOD contract to supply them which maybe the reason you don't see many/any for sale on ebay. I'd not seen it on the website before I looked today and I do look regularly.

If you would prefer more ankle support you really need to be looking at something from Altberg's hiking boot range which have been specifically designed to have the appropriate level of ankle support for hiking but they obviously come at a much higher cost.

Kev06

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Yeah as you say the defender wasn't intended for recreation, more industrial kinds of use (like tabbing with heavy packs). I find the durability needed to cope with that is really quite useful for an everyday walking boot, just a slightly more comfortable insole is the only thing I feel needs changing. Though Altberg do make a civilian version, if preferred.

Though I was speaking more generally wrt ankle support (I've had many 'recreational' types over the years!). Now of course mountaineering boots can offer useful amounts, but when it comes to normal walking boots most of those IMO really don't offer much ankle support at all, and increasingly less so with the trend towards softer materials and often lower-cut styles. There are a few such as you mention that genuinely are supportive, but people tend to assume it applies to all, and it really doesn't.

Yes, Altberg's ops boot is quite recent, I think only about a year old. Hopefully in time more people (and maybe even the MOD) will take it on.. and so generate more of a used market that people like me can aspire to.

Kev06

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
(oops double post)

Ronin83

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
The reason for the cut down bit on the calf was due to lots of injuries. It prevents pushing on the calf or the muscle below that (forgotten the name). It makes perfect sense.
Personally I think a bit of help and support 'on the day' is OK so you can freely enjoy the experience, but support is not something to always fall back on.
We should train without it to strengthen every muscle and tendon by itself and promote natural, functional movement if you value long term health.


If you use a wheelchair every day, eventually you will NEED a wheelchair.



pdstsp

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3826
Interesting thoughts here.  The advice to me to wear boots because of my achilles issues came from two medical practitioners - an orthopaedic surgeon and a physio, both of whom examined me, and, in the latter case, treated me, so I am going to stick with their advice as it has given me six years of mainly pain free walking in mountainous areas.


I note that Kev06 thinks that boots don't give ankle support, while Ronin seems to imply that we can become too reliant on ankle support and that this can lead to problems later on.



I read somewhere, and cannot now find it, that the cut out on the back of shoes was actually a cause of several injuries.


Guess it all shows there's no answer that suits everyone at all times. O0   Sometimes it's best to go with what works.

Kev06

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Yes, all very individual. Similar things can probably be said of insoles/footbeds too, which for me are another important aspect of boots. If one has certain kinds of foot problems then highly supportive insoles can be invaluable both for comfort and for preventing further damage, yet people tend to assume the same benefits will therefore apply to strong healthy feet and IMO that is potentially flawed logic.

There can also be a big difference between what may be best for wearing day-in day-out and what might be needed to prevent injury during unusually demanding hikes. For some people these may not be very distinct, but others might sit in an office 99% of their time and then (e.g.) suddenly try to do a long-distance trail, which goes far beyond what their feet are trained for.

So yes, all you can really do is work out what works best for you, your feet and your pattern of use. It took me years, and is still being refined.

GnP

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
I agree that all we need do , is wear what feels comfortable and gives results we are happy with .

One thing I believe is that the really high priced gear is often not the best choice and the belief about buying cheap is always false economy can be contradicted at times .

I have never found cheap boots that are comfortable for me , but have found cheap fleeces and the relatively cheap Regatta coats well worth considering .

The other thing about boots that I decided a decade back is , that if they do not feel good straight out of the box then I refuse to buy .
I used to believe that footwear has to be broken in and to some extent still do , but having suffered over the years waiting for my old Brasher boots to finally break in , I had enough . Life is too short .  :-\ :)
A night under silnylon. Doesn't have the same ring to it.

kinkyboots

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1535
Yes, all very individual. Similar things can probably be said of insoles/footbeds too, which for me are another important aspect of boots. If one has certain kinds of foot problems then highly supportive insoles can be invaluable both for comfort and for preventing further damage, yet people tend to assume the same benefits will therefore apply to strong healthy feet and IMO that is potentially flawed logic.

The one big flaw in your thinking is that you seem to be forgetting that all feet change over time and with age regardless of whether we like it or not. They all spread and the arches fall to a more or lesser extent. It's just a natural part of the ageing process and has absolutely nothing to with having strong healthy feet.

Using a supportive insole such as the Superfeet Green which provides arch support, correctly positions your feet preventing over or under pronation, improves your posture and helps prevent future back problems developing is far preferable over time to using the softer spongy type of insole such as the Sorbothane Double Strikes which only provide cushioning but basically allows the foot to do as it pleases with absolutely no control.

This may or may not affect you now but it will eventually as you age so it's something definitely worth thinking about sooner rather than later.

Kev06

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
The thinking isn't flawed IMO, but then I would think that :) It is supposed to suggest that our response should be intelligently tailored to fit the actual (and I agree, changing) circumstances - both in the degree of support and when this is provided. By its nature, this means not becoming polarised - less support doesn't automatically mean no support, and is also relative to the foot in question (for example the same green insole will give much more support to a low arch than it will to a high arch).

Preventing degradation (whether over time or by more sudden injury) is a matter of keeping the feet and ankles both healthy and also strong enough, which requires both sufficient support and also sufficient useful exercise. IMO 'both' of these things need proper consideration. So there are certainly occasions when lots of support is appropriate, but it shouldn't be so much and/or so frequent as to allow the foot to become lazy and weak.

It is human nature to assume that what is good for relatively extreme conditions must be even better for lesser situations, so there are people who wear essentially corrective levels of support so often that it may actually be detrimental to their strength. Conversely there are also people who entirely trust to nature alone, even though wearing footwear and probably their pattern of exercise isn't actually natural (and nor probably is living much past one's 50s). I don't subscribe to either of those extremes, myself.

kinkyboots

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1535
The Superfeet Green insole was used purely as an example as it's the most widely used supportive insole on the market. Superfeet also make the less supportive Superfeet Blue and a range of other similar insoles. Similarly Sidas and a few other companies also make a range of supportive insoles to suit low, medium or high arches.

The main thing was to point out the differences and benefits of using the supportive type of insoles over the less supportive softer spongy cushioning type insoles on the market.

Any competent independent bootfitter will tell you which insole suits your particular feet the best for your intended use.

As always at the end of the day, as with boots, the user makes their own decision and lives with the potential consequences of that decision. 

jimbob

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503

Any competent independent bootfitter will tell you which insole suits your particular feet the best for your intended use.
 
Therein lies the rub, Kinky boots.
Just saying,  in my personal experience there are very, very, few companies that bother to train their staff to be properly qualified footwear fitters.In very many years I have only come across one qualified boot fitter, and that was because she personally spent her own money to get the training she'd also done mountain leadership courses and as a youth got her Gold DoE. Many of the other employees seemed to know you should put your foot on the measuring block, full stop.
The pity is, I would use the Black's shop where that fitter worked but she left, and now they have no one who is trained in any way. Which us why I am eventually taking your advice to get to the Whalley  shop.Oh, also I know you hate Karrimor, but their walking shoes ain't half comfortable. 😁

Too little, too late, too bad......

 

Terms of Use     Privacy Policy