Walking Forum
Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: WhitstableDave on 14:49:49, 09/10/20
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There are times when comments go off-topic and to reply to the off-topic comments would only serve to keep the topic off-topic for longer. The answer, of course, is to start a new topic and reply there - as I'm doing here. :)
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There is a long running running thread on the forum, I used to go running but haven't for years and it doesn't interest me so I don't read it. But I would never dream of going on to the thread and then complaining it is a running thread and say it shouldn't be there because this is a walking forum and they are talking about running.
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… taking your example about threads, running is running - we either do or don't.
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I find this discussion interesting and relevant, firstly because I enjoy both walking and running (during the same activity), and secondly because I’ve read many claims as to what walking is supposedly all about and to which I usually disagree!
I can’t recall anyone ever suggesting that camping isn’t walking and therefore topics about camping and tents and gas and so on ought really to be posted in the Hikers Bar and not in areas about walking. But, of course, many walkers see camping as an integral part of what they do – what they simply call ‘walking’ (or ‘hiking’) - and quite right too!
So why should running be treated any differently to camping in that respect?
I watched a video a little while ago in which, after walking to the summit of Kilimanjaro, the mountaineer jogged back down. He explained that it was not just a faster way to descend, but that it was also often safer to run on a loose surface. Quick, light steps can make slipping less likely. That made sense to me and I’ve tried it several times coming down hills and I believe it’s a Good Idea.
Also, I’m not sure how many members are bothered about maintaining a brisk pace over the whole distance, but I am, and running at an easy pace down hills (which takes surprisingly little effort) can help to compensate for the slower slog going up them.
A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I were nearing the end of a walk on Dartmoor, between Great Links Tor and Brat Tor, when we were caught in heavy, very cold rain. To warm up, we descended the hill at an easy run and were glowing nicely by the time we reached the bottom. There’s a well-known effect of running called ‘runner’s high’ which we definitely felt and we agreed that the run was our favourite bit of the walk (or 'activity'! 8)).
I’ll finish by turning things around… runners – and especially trail runners – wouldn’t dream of dismissing walking as some walkers dismiss running. Walking is what trail runners do when hills become too steep or simply too much, and they walk to recover sufficiently for another period of increased effort. It's all part of the same activity (or walk, or hike, or run, or whatever we want to call it).
So there we have it. Perhaps someone (whose pseudonym begins with an 'n'!) will point out that it’s impossible to walk and run at the same time. Point taken. But, pedantry aside, I like to point out that walking means different things to different people, and that running and walking can sometimes be combined into a single activity that has merit for some people and that they enjoy every bit as much as others enjoy their own ways of doing things. ;)
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I walk, I run and I walk/run. For me the activities often and naturally blend into each other. I like to read all entries, especially about personal experiences, what people see, who they meet, how their equipment worked or didn't work, and so on. It's also useful for me to read about a piece of clothing or equipment which appears to be specific to one activity but then can be used for another.
My own opinion is that this year has been very different for us (Covid-19) and it's easy to run out of ideas or variations just on the subject of walking, which is why I think other subject areas have crept up on us. Also, the subject of walking can only be taken so far, new subjects rarely appear and we are often going over the same ground but in different ways. I personally don't mind this at all, I still like reading the entries.
So for me, like 'running' 'the rant' section and our views about Covid-19, I find them all interesting and I gain a lot of knowledge as well. As an individual I personally find the Hikers Bar the least intersting, I'm not a 'light banter' person at all but thats just me.
I suspect if the Walking Forum tried to be 'pure' about walking, perhaps it wouldn't last very long?
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I walk but I don't run. I don't like running and I find threads on running of little interest so I only dip into them occasionally just in case they have become interesting. That said, there are often threads on the forum that are often of little or no interest to me, photography or trip reports for example. When a new topic pops up, I dip in and if I like it I stay, if not I ignore it. The "show unread posts" filter is invaluable in this regard. I enjoy the Hikers Bar for the humour, the banter and to cross intellectual swords from time to time. Thankfully we are all different and we can learn from each other to a greater or lesser extent (except runners ;) ). I would not proscribe any topic, even running, so crack on.
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Back in the bad old days when pubs shut in the afternoon, I would often break into a run when coming off the hill to catch last orders! :D
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I don't run, never have done really, used to do a bit of cross country at school. Most of the runners I know, it seems to be all about the time. So they tend to do the same routes, just to see if they can improve their times.
I used to do a bit of school boy cycling, but gave it up. Now I avoid cycling forums like the plague. The whole cycling "scene" is just not for me.
Walking on the other hand is still in essence the same now as it has always been.
So for me it is each to his own.
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Dave When you use the term running, are you also including jogging or is that a separate discussion?
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Dave When you use the term running, are you also including jogging or is that a separate discussion?
..and what about hiking? ;)
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Dave When you use the term running, are you also including jogging or is that a separate discussion?
If jogging is simply running at an easy pace, then I'm definitely including it! ;)
The way I see it, is that what we call 'walking' should not exclude running - I'm embracing inclusivity!
It won't suit everyone, but running (or jogging) while on an activity we'd usually call 'walking' might be of benefit to some people in some situations. The possible examples I gave included: descending hills more safely; improving average speed; and warming up.
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..and what about hiking? ;)
I think we each tend to use that word differently. I prefer to avoid it altogether as I see it as an Americanism. ;)
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So why should running be treated any differently to camping in that respect?
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Interesting topic for discussion, and interesting question, Dave.
I certainly have no beef with running popping up on a walking forum from time to time, and I have been known to avidly 'dot watch' - the Spine Race is surely the ultimate example of how the line between running and walking is blurred.
As for wanting to get around a walk at a brisk pace, sometimes I do, as on my last walk as I had limited time, but on other occasions I like to take my time and savour the experience - wild camping in a remote location is an extension of this.
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If jogging is simply running at an easy pace, then I'm definitely including it! ;)
The way I see it, is that what we call 'walking' should not exclude running - I'm embracing inclusivity!
It won't suit everyone, but running (or jogging) while on an activity we'd usually call 'walking' might be of benefit to some people in some situations. The possible examples I gave included: descending hills more safely; improving average speed; and warming up.
Not sure that I would call running a safer way of descending, but I would add "getting down off the hill quickly as a thunderstorm is coming" to the list.
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I think we each tend to use that word differently. I prefer to avoid it altogether as I see it as an Americanism. ;)
Not a great fan of the word myself, but each to their own. Ultimately all it means is a long walk.
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What you say about running could equally be applied to cycling - some people cycle up a remote glen to gain access to a walk, and quite often (for me) a fair amount of walking is involved in a steep cycle ride!
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I wasn't saying that we shouldn't talk about things which are not walking, quite the opposite in fact.
I walk but I don't run. I don't like running and I find threads on running of little interest so I only dip into them occasionally just in case they have become interesting. That said, there are often threads on the forum that are often of little or no interest to me, photography or trip reports for example. When a new topic pops up, I dip in and if I like it I stay, if not I ignore it. The "show unread posts" filter is invaluable in this regard. I enjoy the Hikers Bar for the humour, the banter and to cross intellectual swords from time to time. Thankfully we are all different and we can learn from each other to a greater or lesser extent (except runners ;) ). I would not proscribe any topic, even running, so crack on.
I agree with most of what ninthace says above. Though he's wrong about trip reports and, as he isn't likely to be back in this thread, I can get away with saying it. ;)
I used to run for fitness but it was never for pleasure. I enjoyed the fact that I was outdoors and I enjoyed having done it but I like walking for its own sake. If it was practical I would never use any other form of transport.
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I agree with most of what ninthace says above. Though he's wrong about trip reports and, as he isn't likely to be back in this thread, I can get away with saying it. ;)
I heard that! Pardon? I'm not wrong about TRs. I said "are often of little or no interest to me" not that they shouldn't be on the forum. I don't want Mel, April, Beefy, Karl et al lynching me. I'm in enough trouble with the forum police as it is ;)
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You are correct this is a walking forum.
Hopefully you are being humorous. Out and out running is covered in running forums. Even in this forum there are separate topics covering that pastime. You seem to confuse the odd jog down a hill whilst out "trekking" with the completely different sport, / pastime of running.
Your love of speed walking shines through many of your posts. As has been stated quite often by a number of posters most of us walk and take part in this forum because we enjoy taking in the views at a leisurely pace and reading about good places to see and good equipment to use whilst visiting them, walking, hiking, trekking, slavering about, whatever you want to call it, albeit with the odd bit of running to catch the bus or whatever.
However please do not turn this forum into an out and out runners forum, there are plenty of better forums on which to post such matters.
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I wasn't saying that we shouldn't talk about things which are not walking, quite the opposite in fact.
I agree with most of what ninthace says above. Though he's wrong about trip reports and, as he isn't likely to be back in this thread, I can get away with saying it. ;)
I used to run for fitness but it was never for pleasure. I enjoyed the fact that I was outdoors and I enjoyed having done it but I like walking for its own sake. If it was practical I would never use any other form of transport.
I know. But if I hadn't quoted you, then the reply to your post wouldn't have made much sense. Sorry. :-[
I only started running a few months ago and most has been on the treadmill, which suggests I do it purely for fitness. However, the fitness I've gained from even that kind of running has benefited my walking very significantly.
I also do a 10k trail run most weekends with my wife. We usually use little-known tracks through our local woods and we absolutely love it. On other occasions we walk the same tracks and we get a similar amount of pleasure both ways, which is partly why I think that walking and trail running have a lot in common. :)
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I heard that! Pardon? I'm not wrong about TRs. I said "are often of little or no interest to me" not that they shouldn't be on the forum. I don't want Mel, April, Beefy, Karl et al lynching me. I'm in enough trouble with the forum police as it is ;)
;D When an email popped up to say that there had been a reply in this thread I knew it would be you ;D
I know. But if I hadn't quoted you, then the reply to your post wouldn't have made much sense. Sorry. :-[
No problem Dave, I just wanted it to be clear to people who hadn't read the other thread.
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When descending a hill, I usually go quickly using a method that protects my knees and makes me look a little silly. It would sometimes be difficult to determine whether I was running or walking when descending. I agree with WDave that fast descent can be safest over loose or unstable ground, but care does need to be taken with speed. One winter I was descending a Munro with a couple of colleagues. We agreed that I would go first, as I would be much faster, and I would wait for them to catch me up. Unfortunately, I tripped on a protruding rock, which was enough to tip me forwards without putting me flat on my face. There then followed a period of acceleration where my lower body attempted to catch up with my torso. Realising that this could end in tears (or worse), I veered off track into some heather, caught my boot on a plant and almost completed a full somersault. My big winter pack took the brunt of the landing. Once it was realised that I had survived, there was much hilarity about my sprint down the steep mountainside followed by a somersault. :-[
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Who worries how you get around in the country side. Walk, jog, run quickly down hills, scramble, climb with ropes. ski. I've even watched kite boarders reach the highest point of Dartmoor. Never tried the last one myself. But I'm happy doing any of the others, if not very good at any of them. Just enjoy the hills and mountains and tell us all about it, if you feel so inclined. No one has to read what we each write.
OK it's a walking forum so the core is around walking. I've never once seen a thread on Olympic type walking. (Please don't start one) Fell running trail running though, they are just simply walking through the countryside whilst lifting both feet off the ground at once. O0
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... Fell running trail running though, they are just simply walking through the countryside whilst lifting both feet off the ground at once. O0
I love that description! O0 :)
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It won't suit everyone, but running (or jogging) while on an activity we'd usually call 'walking' might be of benefit to some people in some situations. The possible examples I gave included: descending hills more safely; improving average speed; and warming up.
It would certainly improve your "journey time" average speed Dave but not your walking average speed. It would make you look like a really slow runner O0
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This topic has made me think of one extra item if I was a concrete/tarmac runner I wouldn't bother to write in anything! To me concrete and tarmac runners are the people who should write into running forums. I'm very much an off-road bloke so I consider that I'm part of the 'club' and part of the subject that we all write about, being in the countryside and enjoying it, and for me, meeting talking and laughing with people who are also in the countryside.
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This topic has made me think of one extra item if I was a concrete/tarmac runner I wouldn't bother to write in anything! To me concrete and tarmac runners are the people who should write into running forums. I'm very much an off-road bloke so I consider that I'm part of the 'club' and part of the subject that we all write about, being in the countryside and enjoying it, and for me, meeting talking and laughing with people who are also in the countryside.
I'm with you there 100% GWM. O0 My wife mainly runs on promenades, pavements and roads and she buys running magazines and running gear and is active on running websites. I'm just a walker who enjoys the odd bit of jogging on walks as well as the occasional off-road run.
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Hi everyone, due to circumstances I don't come on here any where near as I used to, but once I am fully mobile again, I will be back properly. For those that don't know me as well, I'm known for my high mileage non stoppers on long distance paths.I am an ex road, cross country and fell runner and hold a few age related FKT's (fastest known time).When I walk with a pack whetther I'm on a day walk or a multi day backing trip, I am walking the entire way.
When I ran on any terrain, be it road, country or fells, I ran the whole way, until that is the fell became that steep you physically couldn't, then it was fell runners knee pushes until it eased off and then would run again at the first oportunity.The onlt time I would mix running with walking was when competing in an Ultra distance event.That brings about another angle. many people taking part in Ultra distance events class themselves as Ultra Runners, although most of the time if not all of it, they are walking.You could say that running, walking, backpacking even higher mileage walking have their own seperate identity, but many a time one one mixes with the other and I can't see anything wrong with that being mentioned in conversations so long as it doesn't detract from the original point of the post.
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Just to stir the pot, when does walking become scrambling? I wouldn't say I've been scrambling if I did a walk that required a few moves with hands. If I happened to nip up/along a grade 1 along the way, I'd probably still say I'd been walking. To me, it depends what the intention of the trip was - was it to go for a walk, which happened to involve some scrambling, or was it to go scrambling, which happened to include walking in and out?
Actually, I wan't just stirring. The same distinction to me applies to running. I may go for a walk and end up jogging or running sections. I may go for a run and end up walking sections. The intent of the activity is what counts in my head.
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Most of the runners I know, it seems to be all about the time. So they tend to do the same routes, just to see if they can improve their times.
I guess I buck the trend. Sure, I do have some standard runs from my house, and I do take satisfaction in noting the times (mostly getting slower nowadays), but when running of fun its mostly about getting to see more than if I'd walked. With an hour to spare I can perhaps walk 4km, which significantly restricts my options and leads to the same routes being covered. Running means I can perhaps cover 10km, opening up far more choices for routes.
As an orienteer, I compete on a different route every time, so comparing to my previous times isn't really a thing. I tend to be more impressed with myself for doing neat nav than running fast.
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Is the common factor the need for countryside? I became my Schools captain of cross country running, wasn't until many years after I left that I discovered it is the oldest documented cross country running club in the world. I had to lead School runs that had been run since the late 1800's, there was a run every week of the Autumn term and I had to remember the routes. In the Mid 1950's faint lines of paths across field and a hint of a gateway or stile were not backed by waymarks and fingerposts. Before leading a new run I had to read the run reports of previous school captains, until I had put together enough information to make me feel sure of the way.
A runners just eats up a bit more countryside in a shorter time than a walker. Perhaps we should ask if they can do it as safely as we would like to do ourselves. My granddaughter had a friend call off from her birthday party year before last because her aunt had been killed in a hit and run the evening before whilst out running.
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If we read Thom's Pedestrianism (1813) we will find that the history of this sport is firmly rooted in the long distance challenge walk.Running is considered as part of the training to get the athlete fit enough to cope with the challenge.
"The pedestrian who may be supposed in tolerable condition, enters upon his training with a regular course of physic, which consists of three dozes. Glauber Salts are generally preferred; and from one ounce and a half to two ounces, are taken each time, with an interval of four days between each doze[27] (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55644/55644-h/55644-h.htm#Footnote_27). After having gone through the course of physic, he commences his regular exercise, which is gradually increased as he proceeds in the training. When the object in view is the accomplishment of a pedestrian match, his regular exercise may be from twenty to twenty-four miles a day. He must rise at five in the morning, run half a mile at the top of his speed up-hill, and then walk six miles at a moderate pace, coming in about seven to breakfast, which should consist of beef-steaks or mutton-chops under-done, with stale bread and old beer. After breakfast, he must again walk six miles at a moderate pace, and at twelve lie down in bed without his clothes for half an hour. On getting up, he must walk four miles, and return by four to dinner, which should also be beef-steaks or mutton-chops, with bread and beer as at breakfast. Immediately after dinner, he must resume his exercise by running half a mile at the top of his speed, and walking six miles at a moderate pace. He takes no more exercise for that day, but retires to bed about eight, and next morning proceeds in the same manner."
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55644/55644-h/55644-h.htm (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55644/55644-h/55644-h.htm)
I should imagine people in Barclay's day would have considered a five mile walk as their usual mode of transport in the same way as people in parts of Africa have to walk several miles each day to fetch basic necessities such as water.
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I used to run for fitness but it was never for pleasure. I enjoyed the fact that I was outdoors and I enjoyed having done it but I like walking for its own sake. If it was practical I would never use any other form of transport.
It's pleasurable at a slower clip but if you start out not particularly running-fit you have to do the fitness grind first to get there.
A runners just eats up a bit more countryside in a shorter time than a walker. Perhaps we should ask if they can do it as safely as we would like to do ourselves. My granddaughter had a friend call off from her birthday party year before last because her aunt had been killed in a hit and run the evening before whilst out running.
We'd all be safer if we stayed wrapped up in bubble wrap not moving from under shelter with nothing but essential goods except to obtain food and perform minimal exercise to maintain basic health. It would be rubbish though, life is better with running in it, even if the runs themselves aren't always pleasurable (sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, depends on your objectives for the run!). Those unpleasant runs are often the ones that provide the greatest sense of achievement too, so swings and roundabouts.
This topic has made me think of one extra item if I was a concrete/tarmac runner I wouldn't bother to write in anything! To me concrete and tarmac runners are the people who should write into running forums. I'm very much an off-road bloke so I consider that I'm part of the 'club' and part of the subject that we all write about, being in the countryside and enjoying it, and for me, meeting talking and laughing with people who are also in the countryside.
Probably why I don't post much here these days, though I do, do the occasional off-road walk which I enjoy and walking is still walking wherever you do it. I'd do more of it too if I had a car to get out there and if my fiancée was better able to traverse uneven terrain with her lack of depth perception. Might not be part of the club anymore, but I have been and I still share the enjoyment of the past-time if not so much the doing it as I'd like.
I'm with you there 100% GWM. O0 My wife mainly runs on promenades, pavements and roads and she buys running magazines and running gear and is active on running websites. I'm just a walker who enjoys the odd bit of jogging on walks as well as the occasional off-road run.
Why write about walking around Kent then?
There's a couple of people who write about more urban walks on here. It's not as engaging as the beautiful fells but it makes a nice change to read from time to time and walking is walking. I enjoy a nice amble through a pretty village, not as much as a jolly in the country but it's a pleasant experience none the less.
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I'm just a walker who enjoys the odd bit of jogging on walks as well as the occasional off-road run.
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Why write about walking around Kent then?
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I'm struggling to understand how your question relates to what I wrote, Rob.
I write about walking around Kent because that's where I live and where I do about 90% of my walking. I enjoy keeping a diary with photos and I share it here because I think some people might be interested. I've walked in many other parts of the UK and I've shared those accounts too. I hope that helps.