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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: legs-o-lead on 14:35:15, 27/11/15

Title: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: legs-o-lead on 14:35:15, 27/11/15
Walking on Dartmoor in winter means crossing some fast flowing streams about 10 feet wide, and a max of 2 feet deep. Taking spare shoes/Crocs/sandals to change into/out of at each river seems too slow/laborious. Jumping from slippery rock to slippery rock is fraught with risk of serious injury/fall/getting totally soaked, and the thought of just wading across in boots (sans socks or otherwise) is anathema as I don't want to spend the rest of the walk with wet/cold feet..... has anyone tried plastic bags/gaffa tape or variants? Are there any other tips ? Out with friends last weekend we spent 40 minutes trying to find a suitable place to cross the River Walkham near Dead Lake as it was in full flood. Has anyone got a reliable strategy ?
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: mike knipe on 15:12:43, 27/11/15
I usually remove boots and sock and put some cheapo sandals on...  just like you don't want to do! This is great providing you don't forget to take your boots across, which is what I once did - crossed that river 3 times altogether. Chilly!  You used to be able to get some heavy duty polythene "wet waders" which I once used on a TGO challenge - crossed the River Feshie in them and they were great. You'd have to google to see if they're still available. Unfortunately I put a hole in mine whilst chucking them across the river for my son to use (I weighted them with rocks..dhuhh...) Wet waders went up to just below the knee and tied at the top to stop overflows and they went over your boots, so very little faffing about. There was a weight penalty, though.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: legs-o-lead on 15:47:30, 27/11/15
Hi Mike, that is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of... plastic bags or something similarly light, foldable and (ultimately) disposable. I didn't realise there was a specific product out there to suit the bill though.... I will google it now I know.
Cheers
P
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Slogger on 16:02:49, 27/11/15
River Feshie! We failed big style to get across to the bothy. Managed to get across most, from island to island, but could not get across the deep and fast flowing last twenty foot or so wide channel. We had carried a bag of wood for a fire in the bothy and didn't want to carry it all the back round via the bridge that we had crossed earlier, so threw it all piece by piece onto the far shore.
We back tracked then walked up the other river bank to the bothy, then went to collect the wood. This was around a couple of hours after trying to cross. It had all been washed away, the river had rissen around 2 -3 feet!
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: fernman on 22:15:44, 27/11/15
There's a USA manufacturer sells Wiggys Waders which they say are under 1 lb weight per pair, they'll come up in a search. I heard about them in a backpacking blog (I'm not sure it would be appropriate for me to name it here) whose author has taken them on TGO Challenges.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: oodboo on 07:22:51, 28/11/15
Just thinking cheap and disposable here but has anyone tried rubble sacks? I don't think bin bags would be durable enough but rubble sacks are pretty tough, weigh next to nothing and are cheap.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Roburite on 10:09:14, 28/11/15
I used to take some supermarket carrier bag on one of my regular walks. The stream was just too deep for my boots to cope with. I slipped them over my boots and held them up by the handles which meant I had to take the few steps across in a half crouch. Of course free bags aren't available any more but a couple of "bags for life"  may be worth the expenditure.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: youradvocate on 10:10:28, 28/11/15
This happened to me this August in France, the muddy water just burst through over the footpath in front of me, about 12 - 15' wide and about knee height. Very scary at the time and no alternative route, other than to go back. I took my boots and socks off, hung them around my neck and then waded across wearing my flip flops. The most important tool was my walking sticks, they gauged the water depth, helped me to locate any deep underwater holes (there were none) and helped me to steady myself against the strong water flow. I could feel the earth and stones moving under me.

A couple of years ago in the Lakes, whilst trying to leap from rock to rock without walking sticks aid, I slipped and fell in up to my knees, something I never want to repeat. For me, nothing worse than wet feet, wet socks and wet boots, especially when it is raining hard at the time anyway! In addition to normal socks I also carry a pair of trainer inserts with me, it doesn't fully solve the problem but with these and a pair of dry socks it certainly helps when errors are made.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: legs-o-lead on 10:14:14, 28/11/15
There's a USA manufacturer sells Wiggys Waders which they say are under 1 lb weight per pair, they'll come up in a search. I heard about them in a backpacking blog (I'm not sure it would be appropriate for me to name it here) whose author has taken them on TGO Challenges.
From a Google search it doesn't look like these are availabe from UK sellers... anyone know differently ?
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Summit on 10:42:39, 28/11/15
This is a tip from my military days.  First and easiest was Berghaus yeti gaiters. Put simply if the river is deeper than the top of these the current will usually be too strong to cross in winter anyway.  Second buy some army surplus NBC over boots like these.  http://www.johnsonsofleeds.co.uk/shop/en/boots/205-nbc-protective-over-boots.html (http://www.johnsonsofleeds.co.uk/shop/en/boots/205-nbc-protective-over-boots.html) Put them over your boots and tie them as tight as possible around the ankle. Put your gaiters over the top of them. Fit these small bungees originally used as trouser ties by the forces over your gaiter before the top of the over boot.  http://www.cadetdirect.com/trouser-twisters (http://www.cadetdirect.com/trouser-twisters) This is not perfect but should keep you dry for most crossings.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Summit on 10:47:39, 28/11/15
Best tip I ever learned was to find the longest straightest widest stretch of water from your map. The same volume of water is passing each part of the river at the same time. If it's straight then you are more likely to have an even depth as apposed to corners that always have a deeper bank due to camber.


The widest is obvious too. If the same volume of water is made to go wide it will usually be shallower. The river bed is also more likely to be firm because the power of the water has not been able to push the bottom away or it would be deep rather than wide.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Mel on 11:54:57, 28/11/15
Yeti gaiters?
 
Having said that, I've crossed streams in my Trekmates gaiters and not had wet feet or legs - the water has been about mid-calf deep.
 
... summat to do with water pressure creating a seal between the gaiter and the boot I think  :)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: fernman on 13:46:55, 28/11/15
From a Google search it doesn't look like these are availabe from UK sellers... anyone know differently ?
The blog author probably ordered them direct from the Sates, he seems to buy a few items that way. My experience when trying to buy something (different) that was only available from USA is that many suppliers wil not ship abroad, while the carriage is high with those that do. You also have the possibility of Customs duty and VAT being charged at this end. However, as a lot of things are cheaper in USA than here, it can still work out comparable.

Youradvocate's mention of using his poles to locate any deep water holes brought back a memory from years ago when I was in a fishing match on the middle Thames which was swollen and rose alarmingly through the morning, till the match was abandoned. Three of us at the upstream end were cut off, and waded across the fields behind us towards higher land. Suddenly one of our trio totally disappeared in the water, leaving just his hat floating on the surface. He had unknowingly stepped into a big hole in the field. He climbed out spluttering but laughing, even though he was soaked through. Fortunately we used to keep a bag full of spare clothing on the coach for such situations.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Trenchfoot on 14:02:34, 28/11/15
if you're not alone, then draw lots, the loser has to then 'piggy back' the others across.  ::)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Strider on 15:19:21, 28/11/15
 ;D

Good point about finding the widest straight section....

A pair of rubble sacks sounds like the way to go.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Wurz on 20:51:57, 28/11/15
When I used to work on the moor I used Scarpa Manta's and a pair of Yeti's and they worked very well.  Yeti's are ideal for somewhere like Dartmoor with a lot of bog trotting and streams.  They aren't so good in snow where it can ride over the toe, climber used to superglue them in place.  They also weren't good on mixed rocky routes as the rands cut quite easily.  But for moorland  O0

Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Lee in Doncaster on 08:49:48, 29/11/15
It's not that much of a problem where I go walking in the Peak District. I'll just usually walk upstream and find somewhere easier to cross or ford; having waterproof boots also helps.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Owen on 11:00:29, 29/11/15
I'm heading for Sarek in August, river crossing are a problem in this area. The only real answer is use  extreme caution, bare legs, take your boots off and wear trail shoes, and use walking poles.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: barewirewalker on 12:12:49, 29/11/15
The 'Rubble Sack' option was given as an answer to this problem some years ago, I cannot remember if it was on this forum or another but due to what seemed good advice I carried a pair of rubble sacks around in the bottom of my rucksack for a number of years.


Then one day there came a need to use them, having been unwise and not had a practice run in private and solo, my first attempt was in company....not wise if you are concerned of preserving self image.


Firstly they are bulky once put over the boots, so the foot does not go where it normally goes, even in quite mild currents. My first attempt was on the River Vyrnwy, a ford crossing, that had quite a distance between banks and was rather stony. Once across is where I should have stayed, it would have been a perfect use of this simple accessory and the dangers of having them as a sole member of the party would not have been discovered.


On my return back to the other bank, I should have noticed that the stony bottom had started a tiny leak, but brimming with the exuberance of my successful crossing I gallantly gave way to the suggestion of the 'pack horse' option and 'Piggy backs' became the order of the day.


The deepest part of the crossing was just before making the far bank and it was at this point I realised that the weight of a person on your back does not counterbalance very well with extra weight sloshing about a bootfull of water on one foot, I rather unceremoniously pitched my burden onto the far bank, mud (not a total soaking) were the recriminations that rang in my ear for the rest of the day. Mitigation for my efforts were not high on the agenda and for the rest of the day one very soggy foot was my only consolation.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Strider on 14:09:33, 29/11/15
 ;D A good deed never goes unpunished does it!
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Summit on 17:22:21, 30/11/15
Just for fun. This is how not to do it


http://youtu.be/zo0Idl_SzP8
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Strider on 00:38:04, 01/12/15
The lifejackets betray a certain degree of pessimism  ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: barewirewalker on 11:18:53, 01/12/15
;D A good deed never goes unpunished does it!
Indeed  ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: midweekmountain on 13:43:57, 01/12/15
I use an old pair of teva's
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Doddy on 12:28:08, 09/12/15
It depends on water temperature, stream size matters. If there is going to be a few streams in trail shoes I just wade on through at the widest part;I find trail shoes it is the wettest but safest way;take socks off if you can be bothered; or wring them out at the other side. Worth finding a single good staff/branch rather than walking pole.
 
Sods law and experience tells me that it is nearly always deeper and more slippery than you think and looking for a better place i,e stepping stones is usually a waste of time. Jumping form rock to rock is the easiest way to fall in. Plastic bags make it more slippery, heard of folks going over only socks to get a better grip. In sandals your feet tent to squidge out sideways from them which is off putting if not painful.
 
In a wide stream you will inevitably touch something that feels awful. You will think at best it will be a weed, fish, crab. In warmer climes you will think snake or alligator either way your crossing speed increases greatly.

In the US someone told me that poisonous snakes squiggle/swim from side to side whereas non poisonous swim straight -either way an increase in crossing speed occurs. Is this snake notion true.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: legs-o-lead on 12:59:08, 09/12/15


In the US someone told me that poisonous snakes squiggle/swim from side to side whereas non poisonous swim straight -either way an increase in crossing speed occurs. Is this snake notion true.

I suspect this is a little bit of a leg-pull, as anything long and skinny is going to have to wiggle to move forward in water? Wagging it's [censored]-end back and fore might work for a fish, but snakes taper, so not likely to be very efficient......

Good point about the plastic bags being slippery though...
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: alewife on 14:58:35, 09/12/15
Cottonmouths (poionous) swim side to side, compared with the various water snakes from the same kind of area of the US which swim straight but not sure if this is a way of distinguishing all poisonous/non-venomous species.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: legs-o-lead on 15:15:20, 09/12/15
Cottonmouths (poionous) swim side to side, compared with the various water snakes from the same kind of area of the US which swim straight but not sure if this is a way of distinguishing all poisonous/non-venomous species.
How do they "swim straight" ?
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: midweekmountain on 16:55:59, 09/12/15
There seems to be a lot of rumours about snakes in the US, a couple of guys on different occasions told me that copperheads arn't really dangerous cos they can't open their mouths wide enough to really sink thir teeth in, I was unsure about that one so when I visited the zoo at St Louis I had a word with the keeper.

He showed me a skull of a copperhead and a diamond back rattler and they both looked very menacing to me and he confirmed to you don't want to get bitten by either.

Then theres the rhyme "Red to yellow, kill a fellow; red to black, venom lack,"........every kid you meet in the states recites when you mention snakes.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: alewife on 17:54:54, 09/12/15
How do they "swim straight" ?

 ??? Cottonmouths make a defined S shape when they swim, watersnakes of course send waves down their bodies to propel themselves forward, but its much less pronounced than an S shape (so I've been told - I'm no kind of snake expert) I'm sure if you put cottonmouth or moccasin snake into youtube you'll get a demonstration.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Owen on 20:23:27, 09/12/15
Copperheads, Cottonmouths, Rattle snakes? Next time I meet any of these in Scotland I'll let you know. You'll probably hear me scream.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Doddy on 21:09:04, 09/12/15
Sorry for the thread drift. I also posted on this on whiteblaze,net and one of the posters came up with this; poisonous snakes swim higher in the water. With a Cottonmouth, most of their body is above the surface when swimming. With the common water snakes, they swim lower, with usually only their heads sticking out.

source  http://www.livescience.com/43597-facts-about-water-moccasin-cottonmouth-snakes.html

I had already come across two Cottonmouths in the southern states, one with a mouse in its mouth, how I spotted it on the trail in front of me I will never know; I gave it about five metres space! So in Georgia I was keen to glean some information from this snake guy. He was knowledgeable and clearly experienced though he didn't have to know much to know much more than me.

In the Sierras I dodged off the trail to the brush for a call of nature and when walking through the brush I thought what am I doing here in Rattler territory.
 
Another tip I picked up is not to stride over a big log before looking over the other side- a prime snake spot.

Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: legs-o-lead on 09:56:09, 10/12/15
Sorry for the thread drift.

That's one of the things I love about this Forum is the way threads weave about and just how much stuff people actually know.....  :D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Doddy on 14:43:15, 14/12/15
Yep, on Youtube there is snake swimming info i.e Chased by a nest of cottonmouths - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=314N7xIeRR8.
 About 18 minutes in on this video it shows the cottonmouth and a water snake swimming styles.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 15:11:26, 01/01/16
Study your OS map carefully.
Anyone familiar with the Caseg Valley near Bethesda,will see that meandering river flowing from Cwm Caseg below Yr Elen and Foel Grach.


After heavy rain, the water source becomes almost uncrossable, you have to literally walk the three miles up the very secluded Carneddau valley until the river narrows.


All rivers or streams are featured clearly in blue on OS maps, study the contours carefully and you should eventually see the narrowest or safest place to navigate it safely.


The Caseg Valley allows no crossing opportunities, other less wild locations with careful map reading should provide a walker with valuable safe crossing information.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: fernman on 16:30:56, 01/01/16
That was my experience with the Afon Caseg in 2003, when I had planned to walk southwards on a footpath shown on the 1:25k map that crosses the river at SH651664.
Putting aside the fact that the path does not exist on the ground, as I found out, the river was also swollen and absolutely uncrossable. I imagine that only in very low-water conditions would you be able to hop across on rocks.
My only alternative would have been to go westwards all the way down to Gwernydd where I believe there is a footbridge, and then come back to Cwm Llafar. It was a very big detour from what I had intended, so I altered my route, with the weather being the major deciding factor, for the tops were disappearing under clouds while the wind was building up to a big blow. 
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 18:00:23, 01/01/16
Yep, sounds like good old traditional Carneddau weather.
Get the right weather conditions, preferably in high summer, and the lofty Carneddau are the stuff of dreams.
Ive ventured amongst them a few times, and love the Cwm llafar horseshoe and Cwm Egiau horseshoe, but that Caseg river is a real nuisance at times.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: sunnydale on 08:53:30, 02/01/16
I remember rearranging boulders in a stream once, creating my own personal set of stepping stones to get across.....
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Summit on 02:46:38, 03/01/16
I remember rearranging boulders in a stream once, creating my own personal set of stepping stones to get across.....


Doesn't that mean you had to get into the stream then dip your hands into the water to move the boulders.
 :D
I'm not sure that's an effective way to keep you dry lol ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Doddy on 12:05:41, 04/01/16
I have not chucked boulders into streams, but have in big puddles, the rocks never quite land where you want them and they can be unstable; worth a try though.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Strider on 21:02:44, 13/02/16
Anyone tried these? (or similar)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feetz-Pocket-Festival-Wellies/dp/B00GWKUIRW
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Roobarb on 00:14:59, 14/02/16
Gaiters and Paramo trousers for me.
If half way across you come to a bloody great big submerged stone go around it. DON'T step up onto it, you will fall off it as you try to step back down!

If there are enough snakes you can run across their backs. This is easier with poisonous snakes as they swim higher in the water.



Andy
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Cnicht on 09:44:40, 14/02/16
Get someone to take your bag across then get him to take your hand and pull you across so fast you can't think about it, then when at the other end cry with fright (this did happen too me on Dartmoor!)  :D :o ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ElliotBrush on 10:32:25, 04/11/20
Hey guys,
Sorry for the late comer reply, but I think I’ve found a solution. The amount of people that are considering fashioning their own boots because there isn’t a great alternative is astronomical! I don’t know why someone hasn’t created cheap, durable and waterproof waders. Anyways, the solution I’m using for my next trail is using Tyvek overboots (usually used in the medical profession) that are relatively inexpensive (a few pounds), and using waterproof adhesive to attach a Velcro strap to secure around the top. Again, these are relatively cheap. I hope this helps, as this would solve the issue.. meaning that you would have a lightweight, cheap and durable pair of waders for river crossings
With thanks,
Elliot
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: pdstsp on 13:42:55, 04/11/20
Hi Elliot and welcome to the forum - that's some thread resurrection - nearly five years since anyone posted


Sure these are durable enough?  Used something similar in the floods in Venice a couple of years ago and they wore through very quickly and ended up with holes - ended up chucking a decent pair of shoes away after wading through the floods for six hours.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: gunwharfman on 15:11:57, 04/11/20
All you need is a pair of binoculars, look at the water through the large lenses, the water problem is now much smaller. Then just make one big stride and you are across.  O0
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 15:56:44, 04/11/20
The answer is to find some ducks and cross by them.  If ithe water only comes halfway up a duck, it can't be very deep.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: lostme1 on 16:14:51, 04/11/20
The answer is to find some ducks and cross by them.  If ithe water only comes halfway up a duck, it can't be very deep.
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: GoneWest on 16:56:42, 04/11/20
A long time ago, a friend of ours got serious brownie points for vaulting across using her walking poles, after the rest of us got soaked.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 18:59:12, 04/11/20
A long time ago, a friend of ours got serious brownie points for vaulting across using her walking poles, after the rest of us got soaked.
I was going to suggest this as a method for crossing a stream that is not too wide. It might not be a good idea with Carbon fibre poles, as too high a transverse force might break them. That could be xpensive, wet and embarrassing.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 19:15:26, 04/11/20
I was going to suggest this as a method for crossing a stream that is not too wide. It might not be a good idea with Carbon fibre poles, as too high a transverse force might break them. That could be xpensive, wet and embarrassing.
I've done it with carbon poles and I am not lacking in avoirdupois. I suspect the load is largely compressive as the poles will be rotating about an axis orthogonal to the direction of travel.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: thomasdevon on 16:23:02, 05/11/20
Hey guys,
Sorry for the late comer reply, but I think I’ve found a solution. The amount of people that are considering fashioning their own boots because there isn’t a great alternative is astronomical! I don’t know why someone hasn’t created cheap, durable and waterproof waders. Anyways, the solution I’m using for my next trail is using Tyvek overboots (usually used in the medical profession) that are relatively inexpensive (a few pounds), and using waterproof adhesive to attach a Velcro strap to secure around the top. Again, these are relatively cheap. I hope this helps, as this would solve the issue.. meaning that you would have a lightweight, cheap and durable pair of waders for river crossings
With thanks,
Elliot




Nice idea. I wonder if I might get some aggregate bags and slip into them to do my fording.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: thomasdevon on 16:23:51, 05/11/20
A long time ago, a friend of ours got serious brownie points for vaulting across using her walking poles, after the rest of us got soaked.




I like to keep at least one foot on the ground when crossing barriers, no vaulting for me.


sorry to be a stick in the mud..........  ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 16:37:59, 05/11/20
Not so long ago (@7 years) I used the come down the Rangers Path off Snowdon using the 2 pole vaulting technique for a rapid descent.  Don't think I could do it now but I still double pole across some of streams on Dartmoor and the odd track wide puddle.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 17:46:39, 05/11/20
On my recent Cwm llafar Horseshoe walk, you just had to go for it, wade chest deep in very fast flowing water.

A few years back, when attempting the Cwm Caseg to Carnedd llewellyn route, i knew there was a walk of over two miles, to find a suitable ford to cross the Caseg river.

There are just some situations, where finding a suitable crossing point of a river, or stream in heavy spate, is impossible.

Wet feet are inevitable, you just have to wade through the water, as sometimes there are no alternative routes.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: sussamb on 19:16:07, 05/11/20
I'd like to see anyone wade chest deep in very fast flowing water and stay upright, another one of your exaggerations DA  ;D


Our water team, trained in swift water rescue, would love to know how you achieved that  O0
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 19:21:42, 05/11/20
Perhaps it can be done for a given value of "fast"? 😉
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: sussamb on 19:26:57, 05/11/20
True, but not if 'very fast'  ;D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: BuzyG on 20:57:22, 05/11/20
I'd like to see anyone wade chest deep in very fast flowing water and stay upright, another one of your exaggerations DA  ;D


Our water team, trained in swift water rescue, would love to know how you achieved that  O0


 O0 . Not any type of fast at chest deep over slow, call it 1knot your heading down steam, if no rope is in place.  ;)


Not too many wide rivers on Dartmoor that don't have a bridge happily.  First thing as a day walker, I check the river level forecast before I finalise my route. There are a few that I regularly ford.  Up to 18 inches I just check my gaiters are secure across the back of my boots and stride across as quickly as I can.  Yet to get wet feet doing that.  If I'm planning a river crossing that is going to mean wading then I take an old pair of walking shoes and put those on at the crossing point.  In typical SW winter conditions I often push on on the other bank in the wet shoes until there is a protected spot to stop and put my boots back on.  Means my trousers have dried out a bit first and keeps the blood pumping. 
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: fernman on 22:53:11, 05/11/20
Is there really such a thing as a river level forecast, BuzyG? That's new to me.


My experience of Snowdonia rivers is most of them are full of big boulders and slippery rocks, while depths are extremely uneven, so there is no no chance of simply wading across them.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 23:07:11, 05/11/20
Easier on Dartmoor fernman,  there is a crossing on N Dartmoor that is marked on the map as Deep Ford - bit of a clue!  Fortunately either side is a narrow stream which can be crossed by a short jump or long step.  Many crossings on Dartmoor have clapper bridges, but my favourite crossing is just is couple of poles, one for the hands and one for the feet, which is a bit sporty.


In Devon in general there is a surprising number of fords on minor roads and tracks.  Happily, most of them have a pedestrian bridge, often well concealed.  The OS map is not a lot of help though.  Many fords are not marked, nor is the existence (or not) of a footbridge.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: BuzyG on 23:15:52, 05/11/20
Is there really such a thing as a river level forecast, BuzyG? That's new to me.


My experience of Snowdonia rivers is most of them are full of big boulders and slippery rocks, while depths are extremely uneven, so there is no no chance of simply wading across them.

https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/river-and-sea-levels (https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/river-and-sea-levels)

I have this site right next to the Met Office Site in my favourites.  If it's a river crossing you know, then this data is very useful for estimating how deep it will be at your known crossing point. Obviously you can't just use the reading from a point elsewhere on the river, but you can use it together with your local knowledge to get a good estimation. So basically I do my own local forecast.

The Tavy and the West Oakment are both rivers where I find this works well, as there are fords on them in the central moor and measuring stations a few miles down stream.

I note not a whole lot of data for North Wales.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: BuzyG on 23:49:28, 05/11/20
my favourite crossing is just is couple of poles, one for the hands and one for the feet, which is a bit sporty.



North Teign SX640860, by any chance. I enjoy that one if it is. O0  But Dartmoor has many bridges. ;)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 00:47:51, 06/11/20

North Teign SX640860, by any chance. I enjoy that one if it is. O0  But Dartmoor has many bridges. ;)
That’s the one.  Only bridge I know of on the moor where you need to be a bit of a gymnast.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: fernman on 09:16:47, 06/11/20
Thanks for the link, BuzyG.


I defy anyone to cross this "ford", it is on the upper Mawddach at SH808291.
The photo below was taken from the north side looking south. Even in the extreme drought conditions at the time I didn't want to chance it. I crossed a few hundred metres upstream where there was an expanse of shingle at a bend and a narrow channel of water that I was able to jump easily.

(https://i.postimg.cc/QtbhNZjb/Ford.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4yfM9Xv/2017-05-S-Arenigs-40.jpg)

Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: BuzyG on 10:08:41, 06/11/20
Don't fancy that either.  As rule of thumb if you can't see the bottom don't cross there.  Not always possible I know. I've ended up soaked past my waste a few times simply crossing apparently tiny streams hidden in reeds.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: vizzavona on 11:03:09, 06/11/20
Just come across this Subject.  Yes the Feshie area needs an update on the bridges shown on the Ordnance Survey maps. Only one of the three in the area of the Estate is still in use.  The one opposite the old school, now a holiday house, has not been there in Forty years. The one at Carnachuin was swept away in the big flood of around 2009.
Possible to paddle the river above where the bridge was but only ever in very low water levels.
Must say that if biking up from Kincraig I use the bridge at NH 81266 04552 to cross and if going further up the glen I connect with the footpath that begins at Achlean. Needless to say that if approaching from the road on the East side of the Glen it is this footpath all the way.
On stream crossings with gaiters on a quick crossing with a reasonable water depth seems on most occasions to keep the feet dry....I guess that as everyone will be aware of hopping from stone to stone is prone to problems...something that, when I was much younger, was often used. Precarious when when approaching my Octogenarian years.
I will write to the The O.S. folks to ask them to talk these non existent bridges off when the next update takes place. ;)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 12:08:27, 06/11/20
I always check my planned routes against aerial imagery - it has saved many a disappointment and avoided quite a few unpleasant surprises.  It also provides a few bonuses too such as paths and bridges not shown on the map.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 15:46:46, 06/11/20
Regarding the crossing of the Caseg river, when i was attempting my Cwm Llafar walk.

The previous Tuesday, there had been significant heavy rainfall, resulting in heavy flooding in parts of lower Bethesda.
Normally, the upper slopes of the Caseg valley above Gerlan, are dry, with just the valley itself, awash with thick deep mire.

On this occasion, the mountainside on both sides of the valley, was a constant torrent of heavily soaked ground.

Thankfully, the Caseg river was not that fast flowing in certain parts, you could cross in perfect safety.

It was just the depth of the cold water.

I am 6ft tall, so i felt confident in crossing the river, but its only the first time ive been slightly above my waist whilst crossing a river.

Normally, if a river is as swollen as the Caseg was that day, i would attempt to find a easier crossing point, but that involves a walk of  over two miles, to the top of the valley, involving over an hours walk, so that was not an option.

I was just desperate to reach the other side of the Caseg valley, to the start of my walk.

Any other walk, i think i would have turned around and gone home, but its the first time ive waded through such deep water, and probably the last time as well.

The river thankfully was not very wide, probably twenty feet or so, and i could see the water was deep, but it was a bit of a shock to realise just how deep.

Thankfully i do not make a habit of wading through such deep water, especially in such remote countryside.

Had the river been a lot wider, and flowing much more quickly, then i probably would have called it a day and gone home, but this was the Llafar Horseshoe, and a few moments of excitement, just made for a more exciting day.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: sussamb on 16:16:22, 06/11/20
So not "chest deep in very fast flowing water" as you originally said   ::)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: thomasdevon on 16:44:54, 06/11/20
Regarding the crossing of the Caseg river, when i was attempting my Cwm Llafar walk.

The previous Tuesday, there had been significant heavy rainfall, resulting in heavy flooding in parts of lower Bethesda.
Normally, the upper slopes of the Caseg valley above Gerlan, are dry, with just the valley itself, awash with thick deep mire.

On this occasion, the mountainside on both sides of the valley, was a constant torrent of heavily soaked ground.

Thankfully, the Caseg river was not that fast flowing in certain parts, you could cross in perfect safety.

It was just the depth of the cold water.

I am 6ft tall, so i felt confident in crossing the river, but its only the first time ive been slightly above my waist whilst crossing a river.

Normally, if a river is as swollen as the Caseg was that day, i would attempt to find a easier crossing point, but that involves a walk of  over two miles, to the top of the valley, involving over an hours walk, so that was not an option.

I was just desperate to reach the other side of the Caseg valley, to the start of my walk.

Any other walk, i think i would have turned around and gone home, but its the first time ive waded through such deep water, and probably the last time as well.

The river thankfully was not very wide, probably twenty feet or so, and i could see the water was deep, but it was a bit of a shock to realise just how deep.

Thankfully i do not make a habit of wading through such deep water, especially in such remote countryside.

Had the river been a lot wider, and flowing much more quickly, then i probably would have called it a day and gone home, but this was the Llafar Horseshoe, and a few moments of excitement, just made for a more exciting day.




That's a bit deep my friend, do take care. I have seen film of someone swept off their feet in knee-deep water. Thing is, if its deeper than that and you do go over, you won't readily regain your footing you're a passenger of the river.......
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Mel on 18:09:49, 06/11/20
On my recent Cwm llafar Horseshoe walk, you just had to go for it, wade chest deep in very fast flowing water.


Blimey, could have lost 3 people for the price of one there  :D


...i would attempt to find a easier crossing point, but that involves a walk of  over two miles, to the top of the valley, involving over an hours walk, so that was not an option.


Err, yes it was.  Either that or turn round and choose another route  O0


The river thankfully was not very wide, probably twenty feet or so, and i could see the water was deep, but it was a bit of a shock to realise just how deep.


 
Indeed.  You were lucky.  Hopefully a harsh lesson well learned.  I don't want to be mourning the loss of not one, but three forum members all in one go   ;)



Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 18:21:06, 06/11/20
At the far end of Loch Muick on the path up to Dubh Loch there are some stepping stones across the stream, that are quite easy to cross. In very bad weather, 2 colleagues and I opted for a lower level walk rather than a traverse of several Munros. We were overtaken by a solo walker on the path, before we got to the stream. When we arrived at the stream, there was no sign of the stones, so I held onto the side and lowered one foot to test the depth of the torrent. The water reached the top of my leg and I still didn’t find bottom. Discretion being the better part of valour, we turned back and contented ourselves with just completing the very wet circuit of Loch Muick. I didn’t fancy our chances of crossing and possibly recrossing the stream, if our route ahead (with more and wider streams) became impassable. With gale force winds and torrential rain, it would only have got worse. I hope that the solo walker made it safely across and back again.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: sussamb on 19:00:53, 06/11/20
Blimey, could have lost 3 people for the price of one there  :D


 :)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 19:54:39, 06/11/20
All you need is half a dozen officer cadets, a few pine poles, some lashings and a 40 gallon drum and you would have bridge in no time.  Seen it done dozens of times, with varying degrees of success!  O0
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: sussamb on 21:46:40, 06/11/20
 ;D  oh yes, and some very poorly done  O0
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: BuzyG on 12:09:41, 07/11/20
Is that part of the swimming course.
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: ninthace on 12:21:42, 07/11/20
Of course you could just carry a large bag of custard (cornflour), then you would be able to just walk across.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz9KnPZWOgs


Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: windyrigg on 12:48:35, 07/11/20
My best tip would be to try not to fall in much  O0
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: jimbob on 14:07:01, 07/11/20
Adapt walking poles to work as stilts :D
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Birdman on 20:34:14, 12/11/20

For crossing deep fast flowing streams I use these neoprene triboard shoes (Decathlon). They fit like socks, so the flowing water doesn't get much hold of them (unlike sandals, Crocs etc). They have pretty tough grippy soles and protection all around to prevent my feet from getting injured by stones etc. As a bonus, they give an element of heat insulation, which can be very nice when you have to spend a long time finding a way through a raging, ice-cold melt water stream, because your feet get numb from the cold very soon, which eventually impairs safety.


It is something extra to carry (345 grams/ pair) but they can double as camp shoes and I find they really help with safe crossings while keeping my boots dry. They were cheap too (less than £10).


(https://i.postimg.cc/nV3dRHD6/ka1.jpg)
Title: Re: Tips for crossing streams?
Post by: Birdman on 20:50:57, 12/11/20

Last year on the Bibbulmun Track (Australia). Not a river, this was the trail! Knee-deep in places. I just kept my boots on here because these stretches were too frequent and there were snakes in there too, while it was often too murky to see the bottom. Fortunately this was just for 2 days.


(https://www.hikingbirdman.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/AUS_BibbulmunDay30_1.jpg)