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Title: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: GnP on 17:26:12, 13/12/20

"The four men thought they were at the Old Man of Coniston in the Lake District on Saturday but were more than a mile away (1.6km) at Great How.

It prompted a three-and-a-half hour rescue operation ".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-55293584 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-55293584)
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: pdstsp on 18:36:21, 13/12/20
Lucky boys, there's some difficult ground round there!


Reminds me of a day a couple of years ago when I met a group of young lads on Great Gable who thought they were on Scafell Pike.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: GnP on 18:54:22, 13/12/20
Red faces all round maybe ..I think of those times I have wondered if I am where I think I am , at the start of a walk , or even in the middle of one..or if you are leading a walk with all that distracting chatter going on in the background .. ???
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 19:57:55, 13/12/20
I suppose that is where GPS is an advantage, although I have never used it. I have believed I have arrived at an intended summit in thick mist only to find out later that I was premature.  It sometimes takes a while to realise that the terrain on the bearing being followed doesn’t match what is on the map. I haven’t managed to get onto a completely different hill a mile away though.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: veracocha on 20:03:55, 13/12/20
My fear of getting lost is matched by my fear of calling out MR if I were in such a situation. I store so much faith in the trackback facility of Garmin I have it available on my watch and handheld GPS and never venture out without both.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: GnP on 20:09:26, 13/12/20
I haven’t managed to get onto a completely different hill a mile away though.
Ha , yes indeed that takes some doing ... ???
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: richardh1905 on 20:37:05, 13/12/20
I recall one of my university mountaineering club meets at Wasdale, a couple of members contrived to come down the wrong side of Scafell in the mist, and ended up spending the night in Eskdale! They did have the presence of mind to ring the Wasdale Head Inn to let us know.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Ridge on 20:52:16, 13/12/20
So easy to go the wrong way in poor visibility and then convince yourself that what little you can see ties in with the map.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: forgotmyoldpassword on 21:16:09, 13/12/20
Especially easy in the winter months when a bit of cold mixed with weather fronts can leave you disorientated, mildly hypothermic and with zero visual cues.  Seems to happen most often in an area with many false summits - realistically there is little you can do to pre-empt that other than try to pace distances out and that isn't something you often do over large distances without quite a discrepancy.  I remember a particular trip when I was at a summit plateau in gale force winds, mislocated, barely able to get the map out and freezing cold - quite the experience when boundaries on the map weren't present on the ground and I was feeling myself become colder.  Not fun but a good learning experience.

Best solution to this is practicing navigation at night in those areas, trust your map, get used to using contours to navigate and bearings and you'll be confident regardless of the weather.  Get used to turning your back to the wind to navigate, manage yourself well without losing kit.

My fear of getting lost is matched by my fear of calling out MR if I were in such a situation. I store so much faith in the trackback facility of Garmin I have it available on my watch and handheld GPS and never venture out without both.


Fact of the matter is everyone gets lost at some point, whether they own up to it or not.  Once you accept you're mislocated, either pick a massive catchment feature or return to the last known point.  It's often far easier than trying to blindly 'hit' a track intersection or similar when you're relying on blind luck. 


And lastly, always call out MR if you feel a situation is slipping away from you, the earlier the better.  Speaking as someone who is likely sent out to get you we'd rather have a limited callout involving a few team members to aid someone down a hill whilst they're conscious, warm and uninjured ... than a full team callout in the middle of the night involving a missing person in a vague location who potentially fell off something which may involve search dogs, yomping ropes and rigging kit, a stretcher and leaving me shattered for work the next day.


Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: photonut on 09:08:26, 14/12/20
I was on the Coniston Fells on Saturday... I walked past Great How too.


I didn't see or hear anyone until into the afternoon (ascending Wetherlam), but the cloud was rather dense.  In many places the visibilty was down to 20 to 25m at times


..oh and wazzing it down  ::)
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: pdstsp on 09:34:43, 14/12/20
I was on the Coniston Fells on Saturday... I walked past Great How too.


I didn't see or hear anyone until into the afternoon (ascending Wetherlam), but the cloud was rather dense.  In many places the visibilty was down to 20 to 25m at times


..oh and wazzing it down  ::)


Surprised you got down in one piece, Lee  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: photonut on 09:46:19, 14/12/20
Occasionally miracles do happen  :)


Was the ascent/ descent of Black Crag squishy?
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: pdstsp on 10:22:38, 14/12/20
Actually it was ok - most of the water was running down the tracks! The herd of belted galloways that are always in the area looked very sorry for themselves.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: photonut on 11:07:09, 14/12/20
Those 'belties' around Iron Keld?  The ones that some days really do have an attitude problem - that flatly refuse to budge and force you to walk in the goo
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: pdstsp on 11:34:53, 14/12/20
That's the ones - on Saturday they just looked bedraggled.  I am sure they'll remember that they owe me a detour next time I'm in the area.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: barewirewalker on 12:22:13, 14/12/20
I was once on the front end of a stretcher, carrying a casualty off Pillar Rock.
Arrived in a misty valley a long way from, our campsite in Wasdale, to where the ambulance was. Sadly the casualty was pronounced dead on arrival and a Police car took of his immediate friends for statements. When the ambulance left there was no one else in the clearing. Apart from my mate, who had carried the other end of the stretcher.
Where do we go from here, I seem to remember saying to each other? I think it was dark, when we found our tent in Wasdale.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: pdstsp on 13:37:44, 14/12/20
Presumably you had descended to Ennerdale?  That must have been a grim walk back after such a horrible experience, BWW.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: barewirewalker on 17:16:43, 14/12/20
Indeed it was, I have been involved in 2 such instances. Unmanned rescue posts are thing of the past I expect.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Pomster on 17:30:12, 15/12/20
I never get lost, i might not know where i am but i never get lost  :D :D :D


I remember when my brother was in the then South Ribble MRT back in the 70/80s he was called out at all hours, at the time quite a few of them seemed to be for the most trivial of reasons. Needs must hey?
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 14:07:08, 17/12/20
Its easily done, as ive discovered on numerous occasions, twice in the Carneddau, once, with interesting results on Cadair Idris, and the other time, i got hopelessly lost in the Black Mountains above Llanthony.

Thankfully they all happened in the heights of Summer, when daylight hours were long, and temperatures forgiving, so there was little panic or worry of darkness descending.

Mist can play havoc with a known route, as the terrain suddenly takes on a different appearance.


The best thing is NOT TO PANIC, and slowly take in your last known position, and try to calculate the time of you last known location.


My last escapade, was going around in circles on Carnedd Llewelyn"s summit for a good hour, trying in vain to locate the path towards Foel Grach.


I knew it was off to my right somewhere, but the navigation even with map & Compass was very difficult.


I even found myself going down hill dangerously towards Yr Elen, i simply had no idea where i was.


My car was in Cwm Eigiau, and after a lengthy merry go round tour of the summit, i had to go to Ogwen Cottage, as it was the only route  i could find.


Fun and entertaining in the Summer, but a more serious proposition in the Winter
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 15:08:19, 17/12/20
It is easy to believe in oneself over the map and compass, even when in hindsight the errors were clear. In thick mist I have been convinced that I have reached a summit and the navigated on that basis. When after that the ground underfoot didn’t seem to match my map, my first thought was to think my compass was broken, when it was in reality it was me in error.


I once stopped on the Aonach Eagach ridge for a snack in thick mist and made the error of not checking my compass before setting off again, as you can’t go wrong on a narrow ridge. Through a slight clearing of the mist I spotted a road to my left that wasn’t on the map. I wrongly assumed that a road must have been built since the map was printed. I soon discovered that I had spent 15 minutes retracing my steps, having managed to perform a 180 degree turn during my rest.  :-[
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: forgotmyoldpassword on 09:44:02, 18/12/20
I once stopped on the Aonach Eagach ridge for a snack in thick mist and made the error of not checking my compass before setting off again, as you can’t go wrong on a narrow ridge. Through a slight clearing of the mist I spotted a road to my left that wasn’t on the map. I wrongly assumed that a road must have been built since the map was printed. I soon discovered that I had spent 15 minutes retracing my steps, having managed to perform a 180 degree turn during my rest.  :-[


I'm glad I'm not the only one to have done this (or at least to own up to it).  Exactly the same thinking, awful weather, 'it's a ridge why do I even need to check the map'.  Turns out when you're cold, thick mist rolling in and it's torrential weather it's easy to not care about pulling your compass out to double check a bearing.


For me it was years ago in the Scottish highlands during the winter, and I ended up on a ridge running E instead of NNE (so perhaps not retracing my steps) but since I had full winter camping gear with me I remember the detour in failing light and torrential rain quite well!  Always make your compass easily accessible and check it often is for sure something I learned on that particular trip..
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Ridge on 09:58:51, 18/12/20

Me too, ended up at the shelter on top of Fairfield thinking, this isn't Dove Crag. Really scary when you realise what you've done, I had to sit down to let my head readjust to which way was north.


My golden rule with navigation is that when you think the map is wrong or the compass is broken, they aren't. It's you.
The exceptions to that rule are small enough to be not worth worrying about.
Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: GnP on 10:25:33, 18/12/20
Something I have noticed is my sense of direction & spacial awareness has waned as I have aged. I began noticing when I started turning the old  A to Z to the direction I was going while driving ...that was two decades ago too .  ???
Thankfully gps came along ..


Title: Re: Rescue as group walked wrong Lake District fell in mist
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 15:27:36, 18/12/20
Its easily done, as ive discovered on numerous occasions, twice in the Carneddau, once, with interesting results on Cadair Idris, and the other time, i got hopelessly lost in the Black Mountains above Llanthony.

Thankfully they all happened in the heights of Summer, when daylight hours were long, and temperatures forgiving, so there was little panic or worry of darkness descending.

Mist can play havoc with a known route, as the terrain suddenly takes on a different appearance.


The best thing is NOT TO PANIC, and slowly take in your last known position, and try to calculate the time of you last known location.


My last escapade, was going around in circles on Carnedd Llewelyn"s summit for a good hour, trying in vain to locate the path towards Foel Grach.


I knew it was off to my right somewhere, but the navigation even with map & Compass was very difficult.


I even found myself going down hill dangerously towards Yr Elen, i simply had no idea where i was.


My car was in Cwm Eigiau, and after a lengthy merry go round tour of the summit, i had to go to Ogwen Cottage, as it was the only route  i could find.


Fun and entertaining in the Summer, but a more serious proposition in the Winter