Author Topic: Scotland: Land Reform Act  (Read 5391 times)

shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #15 on: 14:24:30, 14/03/21 »
"There have been plenty of complaints during this pandemic of people "widening" existing footpaths to avoid "muddy bits. Just imagine what would happen if they could walk anywhere. ( A ploughed field is only a ploughed field for a little while, then it will generally have crops on it. that's when people are likely to walk through it. If they have the "right to roam")"

If they could walk anywhere then surely there would be less pressure on the existing footpaths.
And gain I draw your notice to the fact that I specifically mention not trampling crops.


Whilst you might believe that if you got the right to roam no-one would walk across crops. I don't. My point about existing footbaths widening was that this often happens in cropped fields now. Whilst the density may reduce, along some footpaths, there would still be damage over a wider area.
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shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #16 on: 14:30:35, 14/03/21 »
"The agriculture of Scotland is different from England, for a start, only 10% of Scotland is used arable crop, whilst in England, it is 35%. We can all see the difference in the landscape between England & Scotland is very different. Hence why what worked in Scotland is unlikely to work in England. "

Parts of Scotland have an arable landscape similar to much of the landscape in England. And these areas tend do be near the major cities like Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen.

Hence what worked in Scotland is likely to work in England. ;)


I see you put "likely to work", so even you have some misgivings.


Yet you still haven't answered why you feel you should be able to walk wherever you feel like it. 


If you can't answer that then is there really any point in trying to tell me that my point of view is wrong.
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

richardh1905

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #17 on: 14:36:17, 14/03/21 »

I see you put "likely to work", so even you have some misgivings.


Now you are just being petty. My likely to work was in direct response to your unlikely to work comment.


[/discussion]
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shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #18 on: 14:37:36, 14/03/21 »

Now you are just being petty. My likely to work was in direct response to your unlikely to work comment.


[/discussion]


But can you actually answer why you feel you should be allowed to walk wherever you like?
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

WhitstableDave

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #19 on: 14:37:59, 14/03/21 »
I have to admit that I'm never really sure what people mean by a right to roam.

In national parks and nature reserves around the world, there are often very strict rules about sticking to paths. The reasoning is usually that the flora (and fauna) is delicate and staying on a dedicated path or (even better) a boardwalk is necessary to avoid damage.

There has been mention of crops, but what about livestock - especially cattle? If there are cattle in a field that has a public footpath passing through it then I'm reasonably confident that these particular animals aren't a danger. But what happens if I have the right to roam across any field containing cattle? Must the farmer enclose a field in impenetrable fencing if the cattle is of a type that mustn't be in a field that the public has a right to cross? And since cattle get rotated around different fields, will all of the fields with the exception of those with public RoWs crossing them be 'out-of-bounds'? And so what has happened to the right to roam?
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richardh1905

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #20 on: 15:21:25, 14/03/21 »
This website describes pretty much how I feel about the Right to Roam, and their proposals to extend CROW land is certainly a step in the right direction.


https://www.righttoroam.org.uk/
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pdstsp

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #21 on: 15:22:06, 14/03/21 »
I have to admit that I'm never really sure what people mean by a right to roam.




This may help answer your questions based on the Scottish model; https://www.scotways.com/faq/law-on-statutory-access-rights

pdstsp

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #22 on: 15:32:41, 14/03/21 »
Just to respond to shortwalker's concerns, I really don't see a likelihood of serious damage being caused by walkers in most rural areas of England - it appears to me that most damage is caused by the people who drive to a honey pot destination, walk a few hundred yards at most, have a party, leave a load of litter and worse, and then leave.  Expandng rights to roam will surely have little impact on this sort of person. 


Most people who walk in the countryside are way more responsible than that.  Of course there may be some damage, but not to the extent that it will damage livelihoods.  I really don't understand shortwalker's fighting against expanding access rights to walkers, it seems a strange position to take on a walking forum.

shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #23 on: 15:43:08, 14/03/21 »
This website describes pretty much how I feel about the Right to Roam, and their proposals to extend CROW land is certainly a step in the right direction.


https://www.righttoroam.org.uk/
 


Taking just one paragraph makes it appear that we are currently excluded from nature, and we currently can't get out into the country. That is clearly, not the case. So what more do you want?


"The law of England should not be excluding us from nature, but encouraging us towards it. Lockdown demonstrated the vital importance of access to nature for everyone’s physical and mental health. With depression, anxiety, and obesity all on the rise, science is telling us that we need a deeper connection to nature."



We already have access to thousands of miles of POW and access to other areas as well, so I really don't see why we need any more.
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shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #24 on: 15:53:46, 14/03/21 »
Just to respond to shortwalker's concerns, I really don't see a likelihood of serious damage being caused by walkers in most rural areas of England - it appears to me that most damage is caused by the people who drive to a honey pot destination, walk a few hundred yards at most, have a party, leave a load of litter and worse, and then leave.  Expandng rights to roam will surely have little impact on this sort of person. 


Most people who walk in the countryside are way more responsible than that.  Of course there may be some damage, but not to the extent that it will damage livelihoods.  I really don't understand shortwalker's fighting against expanding access rights to walkers, it seems a strange position to take on a walking forum.


I just happen to take a different view about our rights of access. I am happy with the amount of access I have to the countryside etc. I really don't see what more access will achieve.


I  freely admit my views sometimes appear at odds with several of you, it doesn't mean I am any less of a walker (barring my inability to walk long distances, but if you only want long-distance walkers you should could the forum the long-distance walking forum) nor does it mean my views are any less valid unless you only want members that always agree with your points of view.







« Last Edit: 15:57:28, 14/03/21 by shortwalker »
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

pdstsp

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #25 on: 16:05:43, 14/03/21 »
Answering your points;


You may be happy with the current amount of access, but many are not, and are just as entitled to state their views.


More access will achieve more access - it is that simple.  More places to walk, or better linkage of the existing access network.


Nobody has said anything about distance walking on this thread, so I do not understand your point.


Your views are of course, equally as valid as any other member's, but I still find them surprising for a walker. 


I note that you did not address my point about the people who tend to damage the countryside?






richardh1905

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #26 on: 16:23:18, 14/03/21 »
Here is a sobering thought - In England, we are denied access to 92% of the countryside.
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shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #27 on: 16:28:30, 14/03/21 »
Answering your points;


You may be happy with the current amount of access, but many are not, and are just as entitled to state their views.


Never said anybody else couldn't hold a view.


More access will achieve more access - it is that simple.  More places to walk, or better linkage of the existing access network.


But I come back to why you actually need to have this extra access. This is what I don't understand, it is not as if we don't have anywhere to walk.


Nobody has said anything about distance walking on this thread, so I do not understand your point.


You questioned why I held the views I did, I took it as if I held a different view I shouldn't be on this forum (something that has happened to me in the past on here)


Your views are of course, equally as valid as any other member's, but I still find them surprising for a walker. 


Again I don't see why my vies should be so surprising.


I note that you did not address my point about the people who tend to damage the countryside?


I didn't feel it needed a response, people do stupid things now, all I see is with opening up more of the countryside we will allow them a bigger area to do it, with less control.




Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

shortwalker

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #28 on: 16:34:12, 14/03/21 »
Here is a sobering thought - In England, we are denied access to 92% of the countryside.


A nice statistic but does it really say anything?


On my limited walk today, I could still see all the countryside around me, allowing me into all the fields, around me wouldn't improve my view. Wouldn't really have actually given me anymore access
Let your soul and spirit fly Into the mystic.

Van Morrison

richardh1905

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Re: Scotland: Land Reform Act
« Reply #29 on: 17:09:29, 14/03/21 »
But you don't always stay on the straight and narrow, do you, Shortwalker?  ;)


I have always felt walking woods was different from walking "other land" whilst I will always try to walk PROW in other places. in woods I will often just wonder "at-will" Unless signs say stick to footpaths.


One of the proposals of the Right to Roam campaign is to extend the right to roam to woodland, something that I am sure you will enthusiastically support. ;)


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