Walking Forum
Main Boards => Gear => Topic started by: James M on 01:13:21, 03/11/20
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Hi everyone and thanks again for the friendly welcome in the other section.
I'm just starting to get into hillwalking thanks to motivation from my l friend Louise who has already walked several Munros. I hope to build up to one soon.
I've bought a pair of Merrell Altalight boots. Light weight was important to me as it's what I'm most comfortable walking with. I didn't go for GorTex or Vibram as they were over what I felt comfortable spending
(https://i.ibb.co/fCLsDRp/20201028-161932.jpg)
I walked for around 3 miles in them wearing normal cotton socks and Orthosoles and find them very comfortable. I wear all my footwear with Orthosoles just for some extra comfort but I think I'll try the Merrells with the standard insoles next time as they seem to have a better texture to grip the sock for sliding around in the boot. I don't have much faith in how much they will keep water out due to reading some bad reviews but time will tell.
So onto buying some other gear...
I was looking at Trespass and Regatta and some other less expensive stuff. Despite having a lot of stuff bookmarked and ready to buy, I happened upon the Peter Storm website. They have a 20% off sale which I thought was good. I was going to buy a Peter Storm 3 in 1 jacket from Blacks which had 15% off. Sucked in by then supposed great deal I bought from the Peter Storm website.
I bought...
(https://i.ibb.co/b1N6mDJ/20201102-224839.jpg)
Thought why not buy all the same brand. I'm not experienced enough to know what works for me best yet to focus buying particular items from different brands.
Turns out the 20% off is because they can't be bothered to update their website with what stock is available, because they are refunding me for the jacket and T shirt. They are still delivering the trousers and socks.
I'm thinking about just returning the trousers and socks and going for all Trespass stuff. I like that they are a Scottish brand based in Glasgow which is where I grew up and I'm still kinda from.
I know choosing gear by brand probably isn't the right way to do it, but surely there's not much difference between all the cheaper stuff from Regatta, Peter Storm etc? And it'll be better than walking in jeans and a hoody like I have been. If I had the money I would buy something extremely waterproof and breathable if that even exists. My absolute max budget for gear is £170 unless I wait until after Christmas and I would have a bit more.
Any tips would be appreciated thanks.
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Being comfortable, especially in the boots is the most important thing when you start, no need to be too “scientific”, just get out as often as you can..and find out if you you really enjoy it. There’s plenty of time later for the expensive gear clangers we all end up making.
I used a lot of Regatta gear when I first started (a mates wife worked there, and he told me it was pretty good stuff) and was always pleased with it...and although a few years have gone by (and so my personal experience is dated)...I seldom hear people complaining about it, and typically see positive reports.
But suspect if I was starting out again today...and going primarily for one brand..it would be Decathlon, it gets a host of positive comments.
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Just go with what is warm and comfortable and avoid cotton - there is no need to be too choosy. I would add some cheap waterproof overtrousers to your list though. I'll add a O0 for Decathlon, and don't overlook charity shops (not much help when we are about to enter Lockdown, I know).
If you are planning to walk on the hills in winter conditions, by which I mean snow, then you will need more gear (ice axe, gaiters etc), and a few outings with someone to gain experience - it is a different game altogether. EDIT - a more substantial pair of boots too, preferably leather with a stiff sole.
Enjoy O0
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If your size is still available you could do far worse than grabbing one of these Keela Cumulus Pro Mountain Jackets @ £55 delivered. Only black available but beggars can't be choosers. Normal RRP is £174.95 https://www.odintactical.co.uk/keela-cumulus-pro-mountain-jacket (https://www.odintactical.co.uk/keela-cumulus-pro-mountain-jacket)
I had a quick look at the Merrell Altalight boots and to be honest I think you'll find that they're too lightweight for your intended purpose and probably won't last long.
For trousers I would suggest you look at something from the Craghoppers Kiwi range and for a fleece something from Regatta's range. Neither of these will break the bank but will perform adequately and are widely available so shop around for the best prices. For socks look no further than Bridgedale's range of midweight hiking socks.
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As I'm a fat old man now I have accumulated so much hiking gear that I haven't bought any new stuff for ages, and in any case there is so much available that it's difficult to keep track of what's what
However, as you can see other Forum members will make their suggestions; here are mine -
There are two places where you should get the best you can possibly afford, and if you find a bargain so much the better -
Waterproofs - you can get away with almost any old rags underneath but the important thing is to keep the wind and the rain out
If you decide to go backpacking, get a good, nay, very good, sleeping bag. Being cold at night is one of the most miserable experiences you can imagine
By all means if you see something you like at a good price get it now, but the Winter/New Year Sales will be here soon and you may well get some good buys
I used to stock up at Go Outdoors winter sale
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You have to start somewhere and all the reading in the world is nothing compared to trying something. All the brands you mention make perfectly decent keenly priced gear. Buy it try it and before long you will have more choice than you know what to do with and start to sort out what works best for you in which conditions for which activity.
For the record I bought a second pair of Peter storm boots, on line, after buying a pair in store the previous year. It was a nightmare of wrong size cancelled order due to stock errors and generally a pain that took months to resolve. Each time I had to take them back into store. Then wait for the paper work on line to catch up Funnily enough I have not used their online service since.
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I agree with Zuludog choose your sleeping bag with care. For me, nothing worse than being cold at about 2 am. The last time I was cold was overnight on 10th November 2019 as I waited for dawn to start the walk up to the summit of Great Gable. I made the error of thinking that sleeping in my car was a good idea!
I've been to Decathlon this morning, I bought a lovely soft and warm beanie for £1.99. I went there to buy a pair of their £12.99 hiking trousers (I love em!) but they only had one colour, the colour I already have.
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The best thing to do, is to buy the best gear you can afford, then it should last you many years.
I am still using certain items of clothing, that i bought as long ago, as 1982.
I still own a Berghaus Dart rucksack, that was purchased in Crickhowell, as long ago as 1981, its got years of use still left in it.
Also, i have a very early Berghaus fleece, bought sometime in the early eighties, and its still useable.
I am not suggesting gear people buy today, will last this long, but at the time, these items were the best available, and were slightly more expensive than the average kit.
I am not rough on my gear, i look after it, but the same can be said today, by the very best gear you can afford, and it can last many years.
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Have a look at https://www.gelert.com/ they sell gear at reasonable prices. Perhaps not the kind to go Munro bashing in but it would get you started.
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I really like those Peter storm socks. Perfect thickness and decent for the price. I've tried more expensive ones, but don't feel they're any better.
Fleece wise, don't need to spend much. I think we've all agreed here on many threads that the mid layer is the easiest to save money on aswell as, I guess, cheap polyester sport tops for base layers.
Boots are really a preference. I like leather boots, but not too over the top. Some prefer very flexible, lightweight ones, some prefer stiff and very supportive. That argument will never end.
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Very interesting Blog that we should all read before heading off to the Hills
https://testedtodestruction.blogspot.com/2020/02/go-outside-sit-down-wait.html?m=1
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Go with your choices. Spending lots of cash on gear does not necessarily mean it is better. I have several “expensive” waterproof jackets, a montane and mountain equipment but have now reverted to using a single layer Lightweight waterproof from Regatta which does a better job than the pricy ones.
I am sure that very many of the contributors on here started out with a lot less “proper” gear than you are.
When I started hill walking there was no technical gear ,it all came from army surplus.
As I say give it a go and enjoy yourself.
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Thanks for all the feedback and tips.
I have thought about buying some of the expensive stuff again but really I can't afford it right now. I could afford say a Montane jacket and trousers or some other well respected brand but then I wouldn't have enough for basic stuff like base layer and socks! Things are tight with 2 family birthdays and Christmas coming up of course. I'm going to have another look in the Trespass store and see if I can afford to get kitted oot!
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Another vote for Pete storm socks O0
I also use Mountain Warehouse Isocool ones, had very few blisters with either of them.
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Another vote for Pete storm socks O0
Another vote for Peter Storm Socks here too. O0
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Very interesting Blog that we should all read before heading off to the Hills
https://testedtodestruction.blogspot.com/2020/02/go-outside-sit-down-wait.html?m=1 (https://testedtodestruction.blogspot.com/2020/02/go-outside-sit-down-wait.html?m=1)
Though provoking article.
I was once stuck on a concrete plinth on Ve Skerries, a rocky reef just a few feet above sea level off the west coast of Shetland, for a few hours in a snowstorm. Now we were wearing immersion suits, but I was mighty glad that I was wearing a fibre pile 'wooly bear' suit underneath, and that I had bought a Bothy Bag. My colleague, who was wearing jeans under his survival suit, initially 'pooh poohed' the Bothy Bag, but he soon changed his mind when things got nasty. The Bothy Bag really worked well, two people soon generate a nice warm fug, the only part of me that started to get cold after a couple of hours was my feet.
Luckily the helicopter appeared during a brief lull just as it was starting to get dark - but it had to be abandoned in a field on the west side of Shetland the snow got so bad - 9 inches fell that night.
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Though provoking article.
I was once stuck on a concrete plinth on Ve Skerries, a rocky reef just a few feet above sea level off the west coast of Shetland, for a few hours in a snowstorm. Now we were wearing immersion suits, but I was mighty glad that I was wearing a fibre pile 'wooly bear' suit underneath, and that I had bought a Bothy Bag. My colleague, who was wearing jeans under his survival suit, initially 'pooh poohed' the Bothy Bag, but he soon changed his mind when things got nasty. The Bothy Bag really worked well, two people soon generate a nice warm fug, the only part of me that started to get cold after a couple of hours was my feet.
Luckily the helicopter appeared during a brief lull just as it was starting to get dark - but it had to be abandoned in a field on the west side of Shetland the snow got so bad - 9 inches fell that night.
Wow, not the place to linger!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Ben_Doran
Sorry to Hijack the thread but
Edit to add new news report for Richard.
https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2020/11/05/remote-lighthouse-could-become-listed-building/
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Mrs N got some Peter Storm overtrousers from the Gelert shop years ago. The lasted ages.
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Edit to add new news report for Richard.
https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2020/11/05/remote-lighthouse-could-become-listed-building/ (https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2020/11/05/remote-lighthouse-could-become-listed-building/)
We were there to change the RACON unit (the white pointy thing right at the top of the lighthouse). Climbing the iced up ladder was interesting!
/thread drift
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I went there to buy a pair of their £12.99 hiking trousers (I love em!) but they only had one colour, the colour I already have.
Do you mean these https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mh100-mountain-hiking-trousers/_/R-p-192392 (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/men-s-mh100-mountain-hiking-trousers/_/R-p-192392)
There are several other pairs available I see from Decathlon, up to £55 ... maybe these actually walk for you
[/size]Thanks for all the feedback and tips.
That Tech Tee from Peter Storm looks good value ..have you tested it out yet[/size]
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Very interesting Blog that we should all read before heading off to the Hills
https://testedtodestruction.blogspot.com/2020/02/go-outside-sit-down-wait.html?m=1 (https://testedtodestruction.blogspot.com/2020/02/go-outside-sit-down-wait.html?m=1)
Interesting. I have recently read a few stories of experienced long distance hikers who got lost or stuck in snow in remote areas in the USA. They lived on for days or even weeks but eventually died. They left diaries, so we know what they attempted to survive the situation. However, articles like this make you realise that you could be even more at risk on day hikes in less remote areas, simply because you didn't bring gear to survive more than a few hours in the elements. On bigger adventures you would likely carry a tent, sleeping bag, warm clothes, food, stove etc but not on day hikes where you just break your ankle and cannot go on.
I once fell while day-hiking/ scrambling in the Cuillins during bad weather and hurt my head. It didn't knock me out and I managed to walk back to my car and drove to the hospital for stitches. Happy end. But if it HAD knocked me out it could have ended real bad. I would definitely have been there overnight, possibly dying of hypothermia (weather was cold and rainy). Even the next day or later I may not have been found because of fog and even though it is a popular area, I'm not sure if I could even be seen from the standard hiking routes. Nobody even knew I was there. This was really a bit of a wake-up call for me, though I still regularly set out on my own without telling anybody. I do carry a PLB now, but that isn't much use if you knock yourself out and as the article describes, even best case you'll still need to survive many hours in perhaps very bad conditions.
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Yes, the Decathlon £12.99 hiking trousers are the tops for me, these days I tend to wear them all the time. For me so comfortable and they fit me like a glove. I want to buy another pair but I'm just hoping for a colour change.
I was listening to Radio 4 on the way home from my daily run today and they were talking about milkmen and how they have bounced back with increased customers and sales and how many people now want glass bottles again. One of the milkmen interviewed, from Guilford, explained that he found an old man in the first lockdown who had fallen outside and had been there for 17 hours, it can happen when you least expect it. He was lucky that he fell in a warm period.
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Yes, the Decathlon £12.99 hiking trousers are the tops for me, these days I tend to wear them all the time. For me so comfortable and they fit me like a glove.
You're a pentaped??!!
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For normal walking, the only critical component is well fitting footwear (can even be cheap if it works for you, but if not, this is where you should spend your money). Everything else is really not so critical and can usually be purchased at low prices. Decathlon often has very decent stuff at low prices. I have been using their merino baselayers for years (bought at £15). And Regatta was already mentioned. I have a bunch of midlayers that I wear almost daily and were bought at £10-£15 at the time (some years back, but they are still good).
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I decided (for something to do) to go through all of my hiking gear today. I was so surprised as to how well equipped I am. I seem to have most things twice over, how did I do that?
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Old age? (http://walkingforum.co.uk/Smileys/alive/grin.gif)
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Old age? (http://walkingforum.co.uk/Smileys/alive/grin.gif)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've done a lot of walking abroad in remote places; back in the UK I'm very surprised how few walkers carry something as simple as a cigarette lighter as a survival aid. In most of the rest of the world it would be the top of the list item (or storm matches). There seems to be something here in the UK walking community that lighting a fire is wrong and not done (in some situations that would be totally correct). Unfortunately there seems to be a carry over into survival situations which I consider totally incorrect. Apart from no longer having to worry about the effects of the cold, a fire is great for moral and puts you into a place where you are better able to think and assess the situation. I've repeatedly seen walking kit lists (sometimes from folk who should know better) with all sorts of stuff included - but not a fire lighter. I would suggest a survival situation is just that, all other bets are off and the least of your worries should be a ring of burnt grass.
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I've done a lot of walking abroad in remote places; back in the UK I'm very surprised how few walkers carry something as simple as a cigarette lighter as a survival aid. In most of the rest of the world it would be the top of the list item (or storm matches). There seems to be something here in the UK walking community that lighting a fire is wrong and not done (in some situations that would be totally correct). Unfortunately there seems to be a carry over into survival situations which I consider totally incorrect. Apart from no longer having to worry about the effects of the cold, a fire is great for moral and puts you into a place where you are better able to think and assess the situation. I've repeatedly seen walking kit lists (sometimes from folk who should know better) with all sorts of stuff included - but not a fire lighter. I would suggest a survival situation is just that, all other bets are off and the least of your worries should be a ring of burnt grass.
While I agree in general, I think that the remote places in the UK where survival could be an issue (exposed Scottish hills etc), there usually isn't all that much to burn.
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While I agree in general, I think that the remote places in the UK where survival could be an issue (exposed Scottish hills etc), there usually isn't all that much to burn.
I think you might find real concerns in Scotland about the effects of fires in the environment. This summer has seen a significant number of events where people have set fires that have lead to severe damage to the peaty under soil that covers much of Scotland’s potential wild camping ‘hotspots’. Lighting fires isn’t something that folk should be doing lightly anywhere in Scotland.
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I think you might find real concerns in Scotland about the effects of fires in the environment. This summer has seen a significant number of events where people have set fires that have lead to severe damage to the peaty under soil that covers much of Scotland’s potential wild camping ‘hotspots’. Lighting fires isn’t something that folk should be doing lightly anywhere in Scotland.
What you are referring to (I think) is roadside camping. People with cars, bringing disposable BBQs and lighting fires etc that burn the ground underneath.
But the point I wanted to make was that the places where you are most likely to get into an emergency situation while 'real' wild camping in the remotest areas in the UK, you'll probably have a hard time finding fuel in most cases. These areas won't have trees (usually) and peat is doing to be to wet do you won't be able to light it with a cigarette lighter.
In a life or death situation, you should of course not worry about some burnt ground. But I don't think you will find many examples in the UK where this was applicable. On the other hand, their is substantial damage caused by roadside camping and perhaps also by people walking a few miles while bringing a disposable BBQ.
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What you are referring to (I think) is roadside camping. People with cars, bringing disposable BBQs and lighting fires etc that burn the ground underneath.
But the point I wanted to make was that the places where you are most likely to get into an emergency situation while 'real' wild camping in the remotest areas in the UK, you'll probably have a hard time finding fuel in most cases. These areas won't have trees (usually) and peat is doing to be to wet do you won't be able to light it with a lighter
No I’m not. I’m talking about supposedly responsible campers in wild spots lighting fires on top of soil that continues to burn long after the original fire has been extinguished. Plenty of incidents recorded by fellow walkers. Not all peaty soil is wet. Indeed many of the natural forests north of the highland fault grow on peaty soil and have an overlay of grass that is easily damaged by folk setting fires. I apologise for the thread hijack. Perhaps this can be dealt with elsewhere
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No I’m not. I’m talking about supposedly responsible campers in wild spots lighting fires on top of soil that continues to burn long after the original fire has been extinguished. Plenty of incidents recorded by fellow walkers. Not all peaty soil is wet. Indeed many of the natural forests north of the highland fault grow on peaty soil and have an overlay of grass that is easily damaged by folk setting fires. I apologise for the thread hijack. Perhaps this can be dealt with elsewhere
I agree with you on the damage. People shouldn't light fires in the wild. I goes against 'leave no trace' principles. But that was not the point I was trying to make. The only UK situations where I can imagine a real emergency situation is things like getting stuck on a Scottish hilltop with complete white-out during a blizzard so you cannot go on. Good luck finding any fuel for a fire there. Anywhere else in the UK you simply wouldn't be exposed enough or far enough away from a road or something where I can imagine you have the need to sit it out with a fire to stay alive. But perhaps I's my lack of fantasy.
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This is actually quite an interesting subject. All the UK deaths among walkers that I'm aware of are caused by accidents (falling etc) or exposure in hill areas due to weather changes or carrying insufficient clothes, or just getting a heart attack while hiking. How many people in the UK have survived because they made a fire, or would have survived IF they had made a fire while that was feasible at all? I think that kind of survival strategy doesn't apply to this country.
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Birdman, you forgot rust. The majority of the UK is just so damp that the biggest risk to us slow hikers is rust. ;D ;D
Any type of fire should horrify long distance walkers except on those few camp sites/areas where they have constructed fire pits.
The wannabe SAS boys do enough damage on their 500 yard expeditions from car to campsite sawing down young trees, snapping off branches from immature trees and generally never tidying up their damage. They give the rest if us a terrible name.
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I can't think of many recorded incidents outside of winter, admittedly. That said, how many wild campers are there really, out of the walking population? I'd argue anyone who wild camps off the beaten track is likely in the to 1% of hikers who are comfortable, fit and skilful enough to perhaps not fall victim to the other issues, or certainly nowhere near as often.
Of all the rescue callouts I'm aware of, it's very rare to have someone light a fire as a primary means of surviving the incident, especially in 3-season conditions on an island with this much precipitation. Usually most people (with means of shelter) are either in a tent + sleeping bag, huddled up waiting for help; or they're immobilised from some kind of incident and likely haven't got the mobility to make a fire. These people are usually hypothermic and perhaps not in the best state of mind/use of their fingers to start prepping wood for a fire. The nearest I could see to a likely scenario would be the recent(ish) Yorkshire Dales hiker incident where he was missing for several days and the area he was missing in was huge. I think this guy did have some extra food with him, but once that starts running low your body is going to start feeling cold and I could see putting up a tent and prepping a fire as quite a sensible skill to have in the tank.
That said, there have been times where in the depths of winter we were extremely cold at camp due to the weather being unexpectedly well below freezing, miles away from anywhere we could 'walk out to', and I've lit a fire to try (from dead wood) and reduced the amount of hours where we freeze in a tent. Cutting a lot of wood and feeding it for hours certainly warms you up, particularly when it's so dark so early in the winter months. But I wouldn't say this turned an incident of 'death to life', but it certainly reduced any chance of exposure becoming worse.
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An overdue update...
Firstly ordering from the Peter Storm website ended up a mess. They sent an email saying somr stuff wasn't available and that the other stuff would be delivered. Ended up that absolutely none of the stuff was available so they refunded me for all of it. Waste of time. I suggested they should keep their website up to date with what stock is available.
So I went to the Trespass shop and bought everything I needed. Bought DLX trousers and jacket, Albus bag, 2 pears of coolmax socks and a polyester fabric base layer. I was using an old Dare 2B midayer that I bought about 10 years ago not even knowing it's a kind of walking and other activities brand, so I was content with that for a while. But it looked quite used so got myself a nice Berghaus one that was on sale in Tiso. For underwear I use Nike and Adidas football shorts which are loose just the way I like it and breathable. I also bought a Nebo torch from Tiso.
As for walks I walked part way around Loch Leven and back, around 9 miles. Everything was comfortable including the previously mentioned Merrell Altalight boots.
Since then I've walked The Hermitage in Dunkeld, Lednock Millennium Footpath in Comrie and a few more local walks in Perth. Around 35 miles in all.
I would like to post some pics but seems I'm not allowed yet.
(https://ibb.co/f87Dqr4)
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I've not read the other posts yet .. Sorry guys! but if i may suggest why not try first a surplus army and navy stores. I find them very good and cheap for people just starting out and you can progress from there
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An overdue update...
Firstly ordering from the Peter Storm website ended up a mess. They sent an email saying somr stuff wasn't available and that the other stuff would be delivered. Ended up that absolutely none of the stuff was available so they refunded me for all of it. Waste of time. I suggested they should keep their website up to date with what stock is available.
So I went to the Trespass shop and bought everything I needed. Bought DLX trousers and jacket, Albus bag, 2 pears of coolmax socks and a polyester fabric base layer. I was using an old Dare 2B midayer that I bought about 10 years ago not even knowing it's a kind of walking and other activities brand, so I was content with that for a while. But it looked quite used so got myself a nice Berghaus one that was on sale in Tiso. For underwear I use Nike and Adidas football shorts which are loose just the way I like it and breathable. I also bought a Nebo torch from Tiso.
As for walks I walked part way around Loch Leven and back, around 9 miles. Everything was comfortable including the previously mentioned Merrell Altalight boots.
Since then I've walked The Hermitage in Dunkeld, Lednock Millennium Footpath in Comrie and a few more local walks in Perth. Around 35 miles in all.
I would like to post some pics but seems I'm not allowed yet.
(https://ibb.co/f87Dqr4)
Sounds all good. You don't need expensive, super technical gear to go for a walk. Stuff from Trepass will do just fine.
Hate it when companies take orders for stuff they don't even have. No excuse for it with today's POS systems.
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Yes, you don't need expensive gear for walking. The only possible exception is shoes, if you cannot find cheap ones that fit you well. Everything else is available for cheap while still good enough.
Of course commercial interests will try to convince you otherwise, that you really need that £400 pound jacket. That's not to say that expensive gear could be nice to have if you can afford it, but it is definitely not necessary.
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if i may suggest why not try first a surplus army and navy stores. I find them very good and cheap for people just starting out and you can progress from there
So long as people buy clothing with quick-drying man-made synthetic materials, rather than cotton which is what I would expect most of a surplus store's stock to be, and that is a real no-no for outdoors wear in anything other than high summer.
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So long as people buy clothing with quick-drying man-made synthetic materials, rather than cotton which is what I would expect most of a surplus store's stock to be, and that is a real no-no for outdoors wear in anything other than high summer.
You expect wrong. Modern military gear has come a long way. Jackets and boots using goretex, entire layering systems made with functional materials and usually bomb proof quality. The main drawback is often weight and generic fit (and the heavy use of camo perhaps).
It ain't perfect and it's not great for everything, but some of it is great and sooooo much cheaper when starting out.
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Fair enough, Ronin, but I bet they also stock a lot of pseudo-military wear that is likely to be cotton in addition to the genuine stuff that you describe. Buyers need to be discerning, and sadly some will not know the difference.
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Another update, specifically the boots. They leak at the toes. They started leaking as soon as they were slightly wet. Looks like the toes are a bad design. Really shouldn't be marketed as waterproof.
Have contacted Merrell to see what they say.
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Merrell will only be interested if you bought them directly from their website as your contract is with the retailer you bought them from not the manufacturer.
It will be interesting to see what reply you get and if they try to wriggle out of their responsibily to manufacture and sell goods which are fit for purpose.
I'm assuming you will probably have to return them for testing/investigation and assuming they confirm that they are faulty you should be offered the choice of a repair, exchange or full refund. If it was me I would definitely take the full refund if offered as the chances are that any replacement will have exactly the same problem.
This previous post may be worth reading if you end up looking for replacement boots (check out the Anatom Q2 & Q3 links) http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=41565.msg602845#msg602845 (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=41565.msg602845#msg602845)
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Yes it was direct from Merrell. Thanks for the link I'll check it out. Shame really as they are very comfortable and light, bit so is a pair of non waterproof trainers!
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James M,
For a few years I've worn Merrell boots & shoes but have always gone with a non GTX version. For waterproof boots & shoes in winter it's always Mendl, never let me down. A couple of years ago I tried waterproof Oboz Sawtooth boots, brilliant, so I tried the shoe as well, just the same.
Cheaper than the Mendl's and a look at Magic Mountain site is a good place to start if interested.
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Mine are the non GTX non Vibram version. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll hopefully get a refund from Merrell and can pit the £93 towards something waterproof. I have no confidence in these Merrell boots anymore and my walks are increasing in length. Just did a 12.5 mile walk and was planning doing the 13 miles around Loch Leven.
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I'm confused about your complaint about wet feet, you say the boots are non GTX which means they are not waterproof.
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I'm confused about your complaint about wet feet, you say the boots are non GTX which means they are not waterproof.
You would have thought so but the non-GTX are the ones that they call waterproof in the name and say
Altalight Mid Waterproof
• M Select™ DRY BARRIER impermeable membrane seals out water and lets moisture escape
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I thought that non membrane footwear is not waterproof, so therefore will let water in. If a boot says it's GTX or the equivalent it should be waterproof.
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"GTX" - other waterproof membranes are available.
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I believe these are the boots in question https://www.merrell.com/UK/en_GB/altalight-mid-waterproof/44455M.html (https://www.merrell.com/UK/en_GB/altalight-mid-waterproof/44455M.html)
They do have an M Select™ DRY BARRIER impermeable membrane (think of an extremely thin breathable polythene bag bootee sandwiched between the outer and inner materials) which is supposed to make the boot waterproof.
However the main problem as I see it is that these boots are little more than a glorified lightweight training shoe and whilst they should certainly be comfortable, lightweight and suitable for low level walking they will almost certainly struggle to provide the support required to be able to tackle James M's aspirations to tackle the rougher more challenging terrain of Munros and higher level terrain.
Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.
If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.
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Another solution is to keep the boots and buy a pair of waterproof socks.
You say that the boots are light and comfortable. Carry a pair of (say) Bridgedale Midweight Storm Socks in your backpack and you can put them on when waterproofing might be needed and your feet will stay perfectly dry.
Other benefits are that in warm weather you needn't suffer hot, sweaty feet, and that if your feet should get soaked for whatever reason, your lightweight boots will dry out relatively quickly.
My wife has been happily using this method for years because she loves her comfy, but leaking, Salomon boots and doesn't want to change them and she certainly wouldn't want a pair of leather boots. My Scarpa boots nearly always keep my feet perfectly dry, but I carry waterproof socks just in case. However, I rarely wear boots anyway, because I much prefer the comfort and freedom of trail shoes and will only choose the boots in extreme cases.
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I believe these alternatives to GTX can be very good. I think with these particular Merrell boots the problem is the way the toe area is constructed which is leaking through gaps. There has been no leaking elsewhere through the main parts of the material.
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Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.
If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.
I agree 100% with kinkyboots. I have never had a waterproof/breathable membrane in a boot that lasted more than about 18 months regular use including Goretex. As kinkyboots says, to prevent punctures you also need to be meticulous about removing all the tiny bits of gravel that get under the insole as these can wear a tiny hole in the membrane.
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Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.
If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.
+1
My experience is that fabric boots will always let you down, James.
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...
Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.
If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.
Have I understood this correctly?
"...failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots."
And it's also true that membranes will fail in full leather boots, but if these are "...regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof" they remain waterproof.
So how about maintaining textile combination boots? I've had my pair of Scarpa R-Evo GTX boots for more than 3 years and I've used them mainly on our walking holidays in mountainous and boggy places. They've never let me down. But perhaps that's because I've regularly maintained them by cleaning them and spraying them with boot waterproofer...
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My Mendl fabric GTX boots are 3 years old and still going strong and still waterproof. Also have Mendl GTX trail shoes about 4 years old and fine also.I believe that quality & regular maintenance keeps them that way.
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Have I understood this correctly?
"...failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots."
And it's also true that membranes will fail in full leather boots, but if these are "...regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof" they remain waterproof.
So how about maintaining? I've had my pair of Scarpa R-Evo GTX boots for more than 3 years and I've used them mainly on our walking holidays in mountainous and boggy places. They've never let me down. But perhaps that's because I've regularly maintained them by cleaning them and spraying them with boot waterproofer...
I don't know but please feel free to disagree. ;D
The problem as I see it is down to how easily the fragile waterproof/breathable membrane is damaged through normal wear or by being punctured and the way most textile combination boots are constructed and manufactured using many small panels and a great deal of stitching which are all points of weakness and potential failure. The other major negative with most textile combination boots is that because of the way they are constructed and manufactured the vast majority of them can't be resoled.
In my experience the waterproofing effect which can be achieved on textile combination boots using waterproof sprays (which is in effect a DWR finish) is very short lived indeed unless the treatment is rigorously re-applied after each walk. Most people are just not prepared to do this or spend the money required to do it. I've personally found Nikwax footwear waterproofing products to be particularly poor as any level of waterproofing you manage to create seems to just wash or brush away on contact with water or long wet grass. Once the DWR finish has worn off or washed away the fragile waterproof/breathable membrane is the only thing keeping you from having wet feet.
Just my personal opinion and feel free to disagree but the Scarpa R-Evo GTX is constructed using mainly one piece of suede leather spoiled only by the amount of excessive and uneccessary stitching on the large lower suede panel and the textile tongue and ankle sections. Suede leather is far better suited for use in a dry cold alpine type climate not the predominantly wet climate we experience in the UK and because of that I personally avoid all boots which are constructed using suede.
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I decided years ago not to expect dry feet with fabric boots over any distance greater than a few mile if the ground is sodden and wet grass with deep puddles is the norm .
Wet mud though , even if deep is not a problem for many boots , fabric or leather , as I find the water mostly stays where it is ..in the mud.
Persistant wet grass is the real test for any boots , even with gaiters .
All imho.. :)
PS : There is an interesting thread here about Gortex. Although a few years old I still think it is very relevant . Even now I still get updates when someone posts .
https://andrewskurka.com/waterproof-gore-tex-shoes-second-chance-complete-failure/ (https://andrewskurka.com/waterproof-gore-tex-shoes-second-chance-complete-failure/)
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Interesting article G&P, thanks. O0
I agree with pretty much everything the writer says. In warmer conditions, waterproof footwear can be too warm; in prolonged wet conditions, feet will get wet in waterproof footwear; and waterproof footwear dries very slowly (whether back at home or on the trail).
That's why I now prefer to wear non-waterproof shoes. In fact, I did my only outdoors walk of the current lockdown a few days ago (when the ground was covered in snow and ice) in my totally non-waterproof HigherState Soil Shaker trail shoes and waterproof socks. At times, I was ankle-deep in icy water, yet my feet stayed perfectly dry.
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I now only wear my GTX boots/shoes when the weather is really bad, that's why they have lasted well. Trail shoes and a pair of Sealskinz just in case has been my preferred way for a few years now. I'm probably not alone in enjoying walking through dewy grass on a summer's morning and getting wet feet, by the end of the day shoes are dry and so are my feet.
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How do water proof socks feel . I have always imagined they would feel clammy and make feet sweat but maybe that is only when the weather is very warm .?
I have never really considerded them for that reason but I accept I could be totally misguided , I read what you say W Dave and Peak in singing their praises . O0
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G&P,
If you're thinking of getting waterproof socks I would advise reviewing other brands as the Sealskinz aren't for everyone. I have seen others reviewed that seem much better but can't remember the names. When I replace mine I will be looking elsewhere.
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How do water proof socks feel . I have always imagined they would feel clammy and make feet sweat but maybe that is only when the weather is very warm .?
I have never really considerded them for that reason but I accept I could be totally misguided , I read what you say W Dave and Peak in singing their praises . O0
I feared that waterproof socks would be just as you say, but that hasn't been the case. I've worn them quite a few times and haven't really noticed anything different. I've got two pairs of Bridgedale Stormsocks: Medium weight (boot length) and Lightweight (ankle length).
In October, my wife and I both did the virtual London Marathon. It rained before and during the day so it was a very wet 26.2 miles. My wife ran her marathon on-road in waterproof socks in non-waterproof running shoes, while I walked mine off-road in waterproof socks and non-waterproof shoes (Merrell Cham 7). We agreed that the socks were a big success! O0
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I've worn my Berghaus Superlights a fair bit in the last three weeks (its been rather wet and the fields and footpath have been muddy and sodden) and they haven't leaked at all, which is nice.
Because I run every day my feet have been constantly wet for what seems an age. I have two pairs of off-road shoes but I just don't have enough time or the inclination to keep drying each pair every day so I just take the insoles out and dry them. The mesh at the toe areas are usually wet when I finish my run but by the morning the mesh has dried to just being damp so with dry inserts back in them I then run in almost dry shoes.
When the weather improves I'll switch to my 'new' Salomon Ulta X boots (the previous ones leaked and I sent them back) but I've decided if this pair leaks I'm just going to accept it and keep them. I just can't be bothered to go through the process of sending the shop photos, posting them off, and then waiting for a new pair to arrive. Except for the leaking issues I like these Salomon's boots a lot. I plan to use the same technique when I next hike, I'll take a spare pair of inserts plus an extra pair or two of socks with me, if the boots leak better to have half a wet boot than put my feet into a fully wet boot.
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Wore the Altalights again for the 13 miles around Loch Leven. There were very wet and muddy unavoidable pools and shallow bogs and marshes that had gathered after the snow had melted and a few days of heavy rain. Was nearly ankle deep in mud and water to get passed. Needless to say my feet were almost soaking as the boots let in water from the side, top and the previously mentioned toe area. I have bought some Shoe Goo to try and seal the toe area and might try some spray on waterproofing for the other areas.
Sometimes I think I'm being unfair on the boots as it was probably wellies I needed for this type of weather, but they would also have leaked walking through some wet grass and that's just not right.
So I'll suffer these boots and until I can afford something better and the shops are open so I can try some on.
Looks like I can post pics now so here's a pic of almost exactly half distance around Loch Leven looking down the length of it
(https://i.ibb.co/q7sd3yG/20210222-125235.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xjsbr2B)
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Hi James
You might be interested in a test I wote about here: Tested: Bridgedale waterproof socks (with non-waterproof shoes!) (http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=41017.msg593876#msg593876)
In conditions similar to those you describe, my feet stayed perfectly dry. :)
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Funnily enough, my wife has just thrown out my only pair of ordinary Bridgedale socks, a hole appeared in the toe area (the seam came apart) and she told me "not worth repairing." I said nothing.