Author Topic: Buying first hillwalking gear  (Read 5772 times)

James M

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #45 on: 16:31:47, 13/02/21 »
Yes it was direct from Merrell. Thanks for the link I'll check it out. Shame really as they are very comfortable and light, bit so is a pair of non waterproof trainers!

Peak

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #46 on: 17:28:30, 13/02/21 »
James M,
For a few years I've worn Merrell boots & shoes but have always gone with a non GTX version. For waterproof boots & shoes in winter it's always Mendl, never let me down. A couple of years ago I tried waterproof  Oboz Sawtooth boots, brilliant, so I tried the shoe as well, just the same.
Cheaper than the Mendl's and a look at Magic Mountain site is a good place to start if interested.

James M

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #47 on: 21:23:58, 13/02/21 »
Mine are the non GTX non Vibram version. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll hopefully get a refund from Merrell and can pit the £93 towards something waterproof. I have no confidence in these Merrell boots anymore and my walks are increasing in length. Just did a 12.5 mile walk and was planning doing the 13 miles around Loch Leven.

Peak

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #48 on: 07:49:59, 14/02/21 »
I'm confused about your complaint about wet feet, you say the boots are non GTX which means they are not waterproof.

Ridge

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #49 on: 08:25:46, 14/02/21 »
I'm confused about your complaint about wet feet, you say the boots are non GTX which means they are not waterproof.

You would have thought so but the non-GTX are the ones that they call waterproof in the name and say

Quote
Altalight Mid Waterproof
• M Select™ DRY BARRIER impermeable membrane seals out water and lets moisture escape

Peak

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #50 on: 08:49:25, 14/02/21 »
I thought that non membrane footwear is not waterproof,  so therefore will let water in. If a boot says it's GTX or the equivalent it should be waterproof.

richardh1905

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #51 on: 09:14:15, 14/02/21 »
"GTX" - other waterproof membranes are available.
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kinkyboots

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #52 on: 10:09:34, 14/02/21 »
I believe these are the boots in question https://www.merrell.com/UK/en_GB/altalight-mid-waterproof/44455M.html

They do have an M Select™ DRY BARRIER impermeable  membrane (think of an extremely thin breathable polythene bag bootee sandwiched between the outer and inner materials) which is supposed to make the boot waterproof.

However the main problem as I see it is that these boots are little more than a glorified lightweight training shoe and whilst they should certainly be comfortable, lightweight and suitable for low level walking they will almost certainly struggle to provide the support required to be able to tackle James M's aspirations to tackle the rougher more challenging terrain of Munros and higher level terrain.

Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.

If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.

WhitstableDave

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #53 on: 11:10:59, 14/02/21 »
Another solution is to keep the boots and buy a pair of waterproof socks.

You say that the boots are light and comfortable. Carry a pair of (say) Bridgedale Midweight Storm Socks in your backpack and you can put them on when waterproofing might be needed and your feet will stay perfectly dry.

Other benefits are that in warm weather you needn't suffer hot, sweaty feet, and that if your feet should get soaked for whatever reason, your lightweight boots will dry out relatively quickly.

My wife has been happily using this method for years because she loves her comfy, but leaking, Salomon boots and doesn't want to change them and she certainly wouldn't want a pair of leather boots. My Scarpa boots nearly always keep my feet perfectly dry, but I carry waterproof socks just in case. However, I rarely wear boots anyway, because I much prefer the comfort and freedom of trail shoes and will only choose the boots in extreme cases.
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James M

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #54 on: 11:42:09, 14/02/21 »
I believe these alternatives to GTX can be very good. I think with these particular Merrell boots the problem is the way the toe area is constructed which is leaking through gaps. There has been no leaking elsewhere through the main parts of the material.




Eyelet

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #55 on: 12:10:01, 14/02/21 »

Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.

If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.


I agree 100% with kinkyboots. I have never had a waterproof/breathable membrane in a boot that lasted more than about 18 months regular use including Goretex. As kinkyboots says, to prevent punctures you also need to be meticulous about removing all the tiny bits of gravel that get under the insole as these can wear a tiny hole in the membrane.

richardh1905

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #56 on: 07:48:11, 15/02/21 »
Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.

If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.


+1


My experience is that fabric boots will always let you down, James.
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WhitstableDave

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #57 on: 09:54:23, 15/02/21 »
...

Failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots. The membrane will fail in all of them at some point either through normal wear or by being punctured rendering the boots totally useless in any wet weather. In reality the thin breathable polythene bag is all that's stopping you getting wet feet.

If you want to avoid this problem pay a bit more and buy full leather boots with minimal stitching which will still remain waterproof even when the membrane has failed provided the boots have been regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof.

Have I understood this correctly?

 "...failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots."

And it's also true that membranes will fail in full leather boots, but if these are "...regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof" they remain waterproof.

So how about maintaining textile combination boots? I've had my pair of Scarpa R-Evo GTX boots for more than 3 years and I've used them mainly on our walking holidays in mountainous and boggy places. They've never let me down. But perhaps that's because I've regularly maintained them by cleaning them and spraying them with boot waterproofer...
Walk, Jog, Run : our YouTube video channel.

Peak

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #58 on: 10:49:06, 15/02/21 »
My Mendl fabric GTX boots are 3 years old and still going strong and still waterproof. Also have Mendl GTX trail shoes about 4 years old and fine also.I believe that quality & regular maintenance keeps them that way.

kinkyboots

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Re: Buying first hillwalking gear
« Reply #59 on: 11:25:19, 15/02/21 »
Have I understood this correctly?

 "...failing membranes is a problem with all textile combination boots."

And it's also true that membranes will fail in full leather boots, but if these are "...regularly maintained with wax to keep them waterproof" they remain waterproof.

So how about maintaining? I've had my pair of Scarpa R-Evo GTX boots for more than 3 years and I've used them mainly on our walking holidays in mountainous and boggy places. They've never let me down. But perhaps that's because I've regularly maintained them by cleaning them and spraying them with boot waterproofer...

I don't know but please feel free to disagree.   ;D

The problem as I see it is down to how easily the fragile waterproof/breathable membrane is damaged through normal wear or by being punctured and the way most textile combination boots are constructed and manufactured using many small panels and a great deal of stitching which are all points of weakness and potential failure. The other major negative with most textile combination boots is  that because of the way they are constructed and manufactured the vast majority of them can't be resoled.

In my experience the waterproofing effect which can be achieved on  textile combination boots using waterproof sprays (which is in effect a DWR finish) is very short lived indeed unless the treatment is rigorously re-applied after each walk. Most people are just not prepared to do this or spend the money required to do it. I've personally found Nikwax footwear waterproofing products to be particularly poor as any level of waterproofing you manage to create seems to just wash or brush away on contact with water or long wet grass. Once the DWR finish has worn off or washed away the  fragile waterproof/breathable membrane is the only thing keeping you from having wet feet.

Just my personal opinion and feel free to disagree but the Scarpa R-Evo GTX is constructed using mainly one piece of suede leather spoiled only by the amount of excessive and uneccessary stitching on the large lower suede panel and the textile tongue and ankle sections. Suede leather is far better suited for use in a dry cold alpine type climate not the predominantly wet climate we experience in the UK and because of that I personally avoid all boots which are constructed using suede.

 

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