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Main Boards => General Walking Discussion => Topic started by: hongkongphooey on 10:11:12, 15/04/19

Title: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: hongkongphooey on 10:11:12, 15/04/19
Who's happy to dunk their water bottle in a high stream while out walking?

I've done it many a time if water looks clear & fast flowing and so far lived to tell the tale, but I do know they are plenty of articles online warning of the perils of such a practice....

My main reason is weight saving
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Ridge on 10:17:45, 15/04/19
I dunk my travel tap water filtration bottle in any mucky puddle. I have in the past drunk fresh water but don't risk it any more.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: richardh1905 on 10:46:22, 15/04/19
I've drank my fill from hundreds s of mountain streams, lochans, trickles coming out of peat banks etc over the decades, and will continue to do so.

The only time that I have had any trouble was once in the Italian Alps - teenagers defecating in the stream above where I was camped - dirty *******s.


Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Owen on 11:28:20, 15/04/19
High in the mountains yes, lower down nearer farm animals, no. You just have to use a bit of common sense about it. I have a sawyer filter which is ok but slow. If it looks really bad filter it and add a tablet to really kill the bugs.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 11:31:08, 15/04/19
I dunk my travel tap water filtration bottle in any mucky puddle. I have in the past drunk fresh water but don't risk it any more.

Literally any mucky puddle? It's all dirty and you pop your filter bottle in?

High in the mountains yes, lower down nearer farm animals, no.

Would you drink from nearer the farm animals with your filter?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Dyffryn Ardudwy on 12:52:54, 15/04/19
That's where my Jetboil stove would come in handy.
If i was severely dehydrated, or had run out of water in very hot weather, which has happened once or twice, then i can bring suspect stream water or water i was not sure about to boil in a few minutes.

It might be a nuisance to have to boil suspect water every time you question the cleanliness of a mountain stream, but the occasional tea break next to the water source, would be a good opportunity to boil some new drinking water.

That makes even more sense in the hot summers, when you simply cannot get enough fluid down, to stay hydrated.

Over the many years Ive been walking, Ive never yet suffered any stomach issues after drinking from mountain streams, and i can remember a few dodgy looking water sources in the Brecon Beacons.

I have either got the constitution of a mountain goat, or have simply been lucky in my choice of water.

If there are issues with the colour of the water, or proximity to roaming animals, then i would boil the water.

If the walker does not have a stove, then its a worthy investment, and it has more uses other than purifying suspect water.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 12:58:16, 15/04/19
Boiling wouldn't purify though it would sterilise, the difference being some unwanted chemicals and heavy metals could remain unless I'm mistaken?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 13:02:59, 15/04/19
Boiling wouldn't purify though it would sterilise, the difference being some unwanted chemicals and heavy metals could remain unless I'm mistaken?
  You aren't.  Pesticides, left over sheep dip, run off from mines.........
A specialist filter will do the job though without the need to boil.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: pdstsp on 13:05:20, 15/04/19
I use a Lifestraw bottle if drinking from streams/lakes etc - I have drunk from streams in the past, but now I think it's a risk not worth taking.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Owen on 13:24:55, 15/04/19


Would you drink from nearer the farm animals with your filter?


Depends how bad it is.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Owen on 13:27:45, 15/04/19
That's where my Jetboil stove would come in handy.
If i was severely dehydrated, or had run out of water in very hot weather, which has happened once or twice, then i can bring suspect stream water or water i was not sure about to boil in a few minutes.

It might be a nuisance to have to boil suspect water every time you question the cleanliness of a mountain stream, but the occasional tea break next to the water source, would be a good opportunity to boil some new drinking water.

That makes even more sense in the hot summers, when you simply cannot get enough fluid down, to stay hydrated.



So you drink boiling water, doesn't that burn your lips?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Ridge on 13:31:51, 15/04/19
Literally any mucky puddle? It's all dirty and you pop your filter bottle in?

Would you drink from nearer the farm animals with your filter?
Yes to both questions.
I always try to fill it from the cleanest looking water that is about as the dirtier the water the quicker it clogs up the filter but I have, when necessary, filled it from some very nasty, stagnant, slimy sources. Best £25 I ever spent.
http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/products.php (http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/products.php)
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 13:36:50, 15/04/19
My sister and her husband got really sick drinking from a stream in the Scottish Highlands, at least they think that's what did it so you can get unlucky even in remote places. On the other hand, I've drunk from a spring in a low lying urban fringe field under the care of a wayward uncle (the best and most fun kind) as a kid and been fine.

Lifestraw and sawyer filter both look interesting.

So does jetboil though I wouldn't use it for drinking water unless I was really damn thirsty.


Now I've got Ridge's water system to consider too.


Probably won't need any of that stuff until I go camping though. The jetboil might be nice.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: pdstsp on 13:46:17, 15/04/19
Rob - I take a normal 600ml bottle and the lifstraw bottle filled on each walk.  Once the normal bottle is done I decant the lifestraw bottle into it (as the straw has finite uses) and will then refill the lifestraw bottle next time I pass some ok looking water.  I know that you can drink stagnant water, peat dedgings and all sorts through the filter, but it's rare not to come across running water in the ares I tend to walk, so I normally wait for something a bit more appetising!  Having seen dead sheep and deer in mountain streams in the lakes (and Snowdonia), and witnessed many people relieving themselves in close proximity to running streams, I would only drink unfiltered water in an emergency.  Guess I must be a sensitive soul.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: alan de enfield on 13:53:02, 15/04/19

Lifestraw and sawyer filter both look interesting.



I have added a carbon-filter to my kit - the Sawyer gets rid of all the 'nasties' but can leave a 'taste' (earthy, peaty, chemically, whatever)
Everything (pipes, connectors, Sawyer,, Carbon Filter, Scoop, Condoms, Bladders etc) all fits in a "Airline Courtesy Kit" zip-bag

The Sawyer details :


The Sawyer MINI Water Filter is rated to 0.1 micron absolute, weighs only 2 ounces, and filters up to 100,000 gallons of water! The MINI can be attached to the included collapsible drinking pouch, inline on a hydration pack, on a standard soda bottle, or simply use the included drinking straw to drink directly from the water source. How is that for versatility? Like all Sawyer filters, a proper backwashing can restore up to 98.5% of the filterís flow rate. That means no expensive cartridges to replace, ever...
 
 * Ideal for outdoor recreation, hiking, camping, scouting, domestic and international travel and emergency preparedness...
 
 * The MINI removes 99.99999% of all bacteria, such as salmonella, cholera and E.coli; removes 99.9999% of all protozoa, such as giardia and cryptosporidium...
 
 * High performance filter fits in the palm of your hand, weighs 2 ounces and filters up to 100,000 gallons (30 times more than comparable filters)...
 
 * Attaches to included drinking pouch, standard disposable bottles (28 mm thread), hydration packs, or use the straw to drink directly from your water source...




(https://i.postimg.cc/mzYDvMQx/IMG-20170707-145028.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzYDvMQx)
 
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: RobertJames on 13:54:10, 15/04/19
I personally wouldn't risk drinking straight from a stream no matter how clean it looks without filtering first, I use a WaterWell Travel Ultra for water from rivers and lakes, backed up by a Waterstraw for smaller streams. Although ideally I tend to plan ahead before undertaking long-distance walks by making sure there's farms, shops, villages, nearby where I can get clean-fresh water straight from the tap.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: vghikers on 15:47:53, 15/04/19
Exactly as Richardh says. We've backpacked thousands of miles in the UK and never carry a filter for hill/mountain walking.
There are sometimes good opportunities to collect water even on low level treks with care, but for those we usually buy it.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: beefy on 17:23:41, 15/04/19
Having been very poorly from drinking water I always filter it,  you just don't know what's in it, and it's worth carrying the weight of a Sawyer mini even if it just stops you getting sick once, you might get away with it for years, but never again for me
April and I have had to drink some horrible water, we even drank water from a puddle with the remains of a sheep close by once, but filtered we were fine,  :)



Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Slogger on 17:25:04, 15/04/19
Yeah took water from mountain streams for years with no ill effects. I have used a filter for lower water even dirty puddles when desperate, which has been ok.Most of the warnings about filtering water in the uk, originate from companies selling filter systems, just as health warnings originate from pharmisutical companies and the like.Despite the best care we took, we did fall victim of Asian Cryptospiridium while in Nepal, came back home with it after 3 weeks away. After trip to GP, enviromental health came to our house (no warning, just turned up) to satisfy themselves that the source wasn't over here. Cleared after the usual 21 days self limiting period, but sore abdomen for almost 6 months.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Ridge on 17:29:19, 15/04/19
April and I have had to drink some horrible water, we even drank water from a puddle with the remains of a sheep close by once, but filtered we were fine,  :)
Was it vegan?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: alan de enfield on 17:46:11, 15/04/19
Was it vegan?



I thought all sheep were vegan (or at least vegetarian)
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: richardh1905 on 17:54:47, 15/04/19

Sounds very nasty, Slogger. I think that you do have to be a lot more careful abroad.


My bout of the "Screaming Squitters" in Italy cleared up quickly, but did prevent me from climbing Gran Paradiso (4061m)  :(
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 17:59:40, 15/04/19

I thought all sheep were vegan (or at least vegetarian)
  Filters aren't vegan though - they kill small beasties.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 18:08:51, 15/04/19
  Filters aren't vegan though - they kill small beasties.

Amoebic rights! Down with the filtration industry! Sanitation is murder!

Nobody feels sorry for the amoeba...
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Bigfoot_Mike on 19:26:52, 15/04/19
I have drunk from mountain streams without problem in the UK, but I did suffer in the French Alps, so would probably take some filtration now.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: April on 19:58:58, 16/04/19
Was it vegan?

 ;D

Filters aren't vegan though - they kill small beasties.

Ridge was making a joke  :) He was quoting from a recent Beefy vid  :)

I think it would be impossible to be certain if water from a tap or bottle is totally vegan, surely that will have been filtered too?

A quote from the Vegan Society
"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose"

I will be continuing to use my filter without any guilt  :)
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 20:23:13, 16/04/19
;D

I will be continuing to use my filter without any guilt  :)
Pick on somebody your own size - those poor protozoa - oh the humanity!   ;)
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: BuzyG on 23:18:37, 16/04/19
Pick on somebody your own size - those poor protozoa - oh the humanity!   ;)
Does a filter actually kill the wee critters, or simply keep them out?

Either way, happy to drink unfiltered from remote mountain streams.  Not on the moors though. Too many animals about.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: fernman on 08:49:49, 17/04/19
Another one here who's suffered the effects of bad water in France, in this case simply from brushing my teeth from a little lowland stream.

For about ten years now I am using a Steripen Adventurer (a discontinued model) preceded by use of the Steripen Prefilter, from anything ranging from rivers to tiny algae-filled pools.

Regarding veganism, for many years I worked in the homes of Asian people originating from India and Africa, my borough has the highest number in the UK.* The greater majority are strict vegetarians, and most homes had a tiny fine-gauze bag attatched to the spout of the kitchen tap.

* Edit: Hindus, I meant.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: April on 08:54:20, 17/04/19
oh the humanity! 

It is a strange word, humanity. In the context you write about it here, it means mans kindness to other humans. Unless you think humans can also be in protozoan form?   ;) I can think of a few  :D

I have drunk unfiltered water from becks in the Lake District before but always filter it now; I have a filter and it doesn't cost anything to use it.



Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 14:33:43, 17/04/19
Actually I was repeating a famous quote - see 0:49 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZNHUzPzGMY
Vide: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oh%20the%20humanity
et: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OhTheHumanity
e.g.
2:13 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5JhYsfNMA
0:49 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hki37NCesLE
etc
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: April on 13:33:48, 18/04/19
Actually I was repeating a famous quote

Oh, I see.

I think we must be on different wavelengths to each other ninthace.

I enjoyed the Friends videos, I'd forgotten how funny Ross was.

I'm wondering if we will be able to find running water high up on the fells this weekend, it has been so dry lately. I remember last summer we had to descend to get water a few times.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 14:57:48, 18/04/19
That can be a pain - I was surprised to hear it was dry at this time of year.  Round here it is still soggy so a lot of the cows are still in, much to Mrs N's relief.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: roughyed on 21:39:25, 18/04/19
With the current popularity of wild camping increasing the number of number 2's left in the hills, I personally would filter water.  Filters theses days are pretty cheap and lightweight, so there isn't the inconvenience associated anymore.

Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Owen on 08:14:47, 19/04/19
I don't know where you go camping but up here in Scotland apart from a few honeypots it's very unlikely anyone has camped there before. I'll go out of my way to avoid over used sites. But yes, if you're using a well used site filter your water.
Around bothies is another danger spot.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: richardh1905 on 19:48:05, 19/04/19
Around bothies is another danger spot.



Made me remember a hilarious description from 'Bothy Tales' by John Burns - he was holed up in Corrour Bothy with others during a snowstorm, and on the day that he left after the thaw had set in, he had to navigate what he described as a "fecal fairy ring". Yuk!
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: roughyed on 20:28:39, 20/04/19
I don't know where you go camping but up here in Scotland apart from a few honeypots it's very unlikely anyone has camped there before. I'll go out of my way to avoid over used sites. But yes, if you're using a well used site filter your water.
Around bothies is another danger spot.
True I'm more of a Peaks and lakes visitor, so the honey pots tend to be very popular. 
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Doddy on 10:41:48, 21/04/19
I have the Sawyer Mini and use it home and abroad and use Aquaventure tabs if the water looks very doubtful.
It is not so much the risk of getting ill, but the risk of getting ill thousands of miles from home with resultant medical expenses, delay, cost of change of flights, etc. Why risk all that by not treating the water.
Coming across a dead sheep, or similar, higher up after sourcing water is not a myth. I have a come across a dead deer twice in streams in the Scottish Highlands.

However most gut incidents come from poor personal hygiene, pooping in the woods, not washing hands effectively afterwards and then eating.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: madame cholet on 12:35:44, 21/04/19
Interesting thread just thinking might be a good buy for use anywhere save me taking a filter jug in the caravan at home or on holiday as well as camping ect my tap water at home stinks too. I've drunk out of many streams but something small and light would make extra sure.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 13:12:17, 21/04/19
A domestic water filter as a Brita filter used in a water jug is made from activated charcoal and an ion exchange resin.  The charcoal will reduce organic chemicals and chlorine to make the water taste better and the ion exchange resin will reduce heavy metals and soften the water.  Note the use of the word reduce, not remove.  The water flows over the surface of the particles in the filter, not through them so it will not remove everything.  Nor will it remove bugs or viruses which are small enough to pass through the particulate filter at the top of the cartridge.
As I understand it, a portable water filter for hiking is basically a fine mesh sieve capable of trapping bugs but unless it has an active carbon element it will not remove organic chemicals (chlorine is not an issue unless you are drinking out of a swimming pool). Similarly, unless there is an ion exchange resin it will not remove heavy metals. Viruses are much smaller than microbes but some filters claim to remove them too by virtue of their tendency to clump or stick to bits of matter.  Viruses can be destroyed by exposing the filtrate to UV light, by adding a chemical such as iodine or chlorine, or by boiling.
On balance, if I were in my caravan - I would stick to my Brita (other brands are available but the science is the same).
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: alan de enfield on 15:19:24, 21/04/19
A domestic water filter as a Brita filter used in a water jug is made from activated charcoal and an ion exchange resin.  The charcoal will reduce organic chemicals and chlorine to make the water taste better and the ion exchange resin will reduce heavy metals and soften the water.  Note the use of the word reduce, not remove.  The water flows over the surface of the particles in the filter, not through them so it will not remove everything.  Nor will it remove bugs or viruses which are small enough to pass through the particulate filter at the top of the cartridge.
As I understand it, a portable water filter for hiking is basically a fine mesh sieve capable of trapping bugs but unless it has an active carbon element it will not remove organic chemicals (chlorine is not an issue unless you are drinking out of a swimming pool). Similarly, unless there is an ion exchange resin it will not remove heavy metals. Viruses are much smaller than microbes but some filters claim to remove them too by virtue of their tendency to clump or stick to bits of matter.  Viruses can be destroyed by exposing the filtrate to UV light, by adding a chemical such as iodine or chlorine, or by boiling.
On balance, if I were in my caravan - I would stick to my Brita (other brands are available but the science is the same).



I have added an in-line Activated Carbon Filter to my Sawyer and now get the best of both worlds.


* The MINI removes 99.99999% of all bacteria, such as salmonella, cholera and E.coli; removes 99.9999% of all protozoa, such as giardia and cryptosporidium...
 

 * High performance filter fits in the palm of your hand, weighs 2 ounces and filters up to 100,000 gallons (30 times more than comparable filters)Ö







  (https://i.postimg.cc/zVRVmtsw/IMG-20170707-145028.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVRVmtsw)



(https://i.postimg.cc/5QdDXtt2/IMG-20170707-150105.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5QdDXtt2)




(https://i.postimg.cc/cgp66fYt/platypus-gravityworks-carbon-element.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgp66fYt)
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 15:37:01, 21/04/19
You will be fine with that set up provided you aren't downstream from an old mine  :) .
Does it cope with viruses?
What's the flow rate like?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Rob Goes Walking on 15:56:05, 21/04/19
How does this (https://www.msrgear.com/ie/water/trailshot) compare to the Sawyer?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Owen on 16:24:49, 21/04/19
Just to add to this debate, did you know that every molecule of water on earth has at some stage in its life past through the gut of a dinosaur.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 16:34:59, 21/04/19
Just to add to this debate, did you know that every molecule of water on earth has at some stage in its life past through the gut of a dinosaur.
Canít be true. Molecules of water are being created all the time. They are byproducts of metabolism and the combustion of hydrocarbons. They even arrive from space.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Mel on 17:32:03, 21/04/19
Surely tap water must have more pollutants and "purifying" chemicals in it than any babbling brook  :-\
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 17:34:10, 21/04/19
Why?  Where do you think tap water comes from Mel?
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Mel on 17:41:27, 21/04/19
I'm meaning more the chemical process(es) our tap water goes through to make it "drinkable". 


Cut out the middle-man, filter a stream (dead sheep carcass optional  ;D  )



Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: alan de enfield on 17:47:39, 21/04/19
You will be fine with that set up provided you aren't downstream from an old mine  :) .
Does it cope with viruses?
What's the flow rate like?



Flow is 'fine' If I hang it up it gravity filters whilst I'm doing something else, or if you use the squeeze bag its a lot quicker.
If the water has a lot of particles (peat etc) then the filter can start to clog and slow down - back-flow it with some clean water and the filter is 'as good as new' again.


It filters down to 1 micron absolute (0.001mm)
Viruses are between 20 and 400 nanometeres (0.000002 - 0.0004 mm)
So I think the answer must be NO it doesn't cope with viruses


I don't think anything will filter that small and still allow water to pass with a sufficient flow to be of any use.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 17:58:06, 21/04/19
I'm meaning more the chemical process(es) our tap water goes through to make it "drinkable". 


Cut out the middle-man, filter a stream (dead sheep carcass optional  ;D  )


'Fraid not.  Most of the purification process is filtration to remove the sheep poo, fish poo duck poo, fertilizers and pesticides that yon babbling brook picked up on its way to the reservoir.
Filtration does not add chemicals, it removes the bits and the organics.  The bugs and algae are killed by a variety of processes.  Aeration - adds air.   Ultraviolet light is also used - that is chemical free.  Ozonolysis is another method - that adds ozone but ozone is unstable breaking down to oxygen killing bugs in the process.  The other method is chlorination which will leave traces of chlorine in the water but keeps it fresh (an is a lot less Cl than your local pool).  They say the water in London has been drunk 3 times before but it still comes out tops in blind tastings.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Mel on 18:01:14, 21/04/19
Sounds delicious... I knew there was a reason why I prefer wine  O0
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 18:02:50, 21/04/19

I don't think anything will filter that small and still allow water to pass with a sufficient flow to be of any use.
  Sounds like a good system especially with the charcoal option.  I don't know of a decent reliable antiviral filter with a decent flow rate either - the only answer is to boil or treat.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: ninthace on 18:05:24, 21/04/19
Sounds delicious... I knew there was a reason why I prefer wine  O0
  And everybody knows alcohol kills germs!  Moreover, the ones it doesn't kill are too drunk to remember what they came for.  I'm with you.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: alan de enfield on 18:17:18, 21/04/19
  And everybody knows alcohol kills germs!  Moreover, the ones it doesn't kill are too drunk to remember what they came for.  I'm with you.  Cheers!



Quote

Notre Dame fire: Bees living in Cathedral survived after getting 'DRUNK' from smoke

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1116750/notre-dame-fire-latest-update-bees-survive-drunk (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1116750/notre-dame-fire-latest-update-bees-survive-drunk)
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Gadabout Bounder on 20:27:39, 21/04/19
(http://i68.tinypic.com/25gxov5.jpg)


A hand pumped system.


90 seconds for 1 litre of water. Possibly less.


211grams.


I have a Katadyn Vario that will do 1 litre in about 30 seconds but is bulky and double the weight.



Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: jimbob on 21:17:30, 21/04/19
They say the water in London has been drunk 3 times before but it still comes out tops in blind tastings.
But, remember, they also say London water has been passed by the inspectors seven times.
Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: Doddy on 11:17:30, 22/04/19
When time is mentioned i.e a few more minutes for a stove to boil, or a filter to work, I am amusingly reminded of Katz's comment in Bill Bryson's book- A Walk in the Woods about his trek on the Appalachian Trail.

Katz and Bill are joined at campfire by a fellow hiker who talks incessantly about gear; he talks long and hard about the value of the see through side panel on his pack and how much time it saves looking for items. Katz eventually says "As if we don't have the time on the trail to put a hand in a pocket to find stuff.

Title: Re: Drinking From Streams Above The Last Fenceline
Post by: richardh1905 on 13:23:57, 22/04/19
A great book, but a poor film.