Author Topic: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps  (Read 15776 times)

ninthace

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #30 on: 11:19:58, 20/10/20 »
I keep mea  ning to have a look at the old rifle range located just to the south of Rippon Tor, which I have never been to.  From photographs that I have seen it appears to be quite a substantial structure.  It is briefly mentioned in the government document that you referred to above.
More details here:-


https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/rippon-tor-rifle-range-dartmoor-february-2014.t90963
Not much to see.  Fairly standard range much like many others - firing butts and a set of bullet catchers still standing.   I did contrive a circular walk to take it in but found the map was a bit misleading which lead to a short section of improvisation (or to put it another way - the hoped for path I noticed was missing at the planning stage was actually missing) 

Vide:  https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/2375971/180808-Rippon-Tor-Circular
The improvistion can be seen on the trace at SX 76162 75312, just S of Bagtor Cottages
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ninthace

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #31 on: 11:48:38, 20/10/20 »

So far, I say this is a myth despite what the Mod say.[/size]
Did you find this in your researches?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BL_18_inch_Howitzer_Halwill_Junction_WWII.jpg
If you look at the old plans of Halwill Junction (internet image search will turn them up), there were several sidings and curved sections of track that would have facilitated aiming (if they point in the right direction - I haven't checked).
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thomasdevon

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #32 on: 13:24:50, 20/10/20 »
Did you find this in your researches?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BL_18_inch_Howitzer_Halwill_Junction_WWII.jpg
If you look at the old plans of Halwill Junction (internet image search will turn them up), there were several sidings and curved sections of track that would have facilitated aiming (if they point in the right direction - I haven't checked).






Yes, I believe this is the photo I was referring to earlier. Its is said to be at Halwill Junction but that remains unverified. One thing I can add is that S of Halwill Google Earth shows a curving vegetation line which is probably the abandoned line of the old railway. The direction of the "line" rotates anti-clockwise round the curve through about 90 degrees from SSE right the way round to ENE. This means that a gun which could only be fired along its railway carriage, having no or very limited traverse, could have been directed on at any point on the north moor. I suppose also that if you're going to fire a gun of very large calibre you would perhaps take it out of the centre of a village to do so - these things can go wrong in a big way.... Also perhaps the muzzle blast on firing might well have been sufficient to break windows in the immediate vicinity.








ninthace

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #33 on: 14:03:22, 20/10/20 »





Yes, I believe this is the photo I was referring to earlier. Its is said to be at Halwill Junction but that remains unverified. One thing I can add is that S of Halwill Google Earth shows a curving vegetation line which is probably the abandoned line of the old railway. The direction of the "line" rotates anti-clockwise round the curve through about 90 degrees from SSE right the way round to ENE. This means that a gun which could only be fired along its railway carriage, having no or very limited traverse, could have been directed on at any point on the north moor. I suppose also that if you're going to fire a gun of very large calibre you would perhaps take it out of the centre of a village to do so - these things can go wrong in a big way.... Also perhaps the muzzle blast on firing might well have been sufficient to break windows in the immediate vicinity.
It is a shame we cannot see more of the house in the background - it has a passing resemblance to the Junction Hotel but not remotely conclusive.
Edit to add:  I came across this  http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/railway_howitzer_at_halwill/index.shtml  which claims the building in the background is the Junction Hotel and adds some more information.
« Last Edit: 14:11:12, 20/10/20 by ninthace »
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thomasdevon

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #34 on: 14:49:41, 20/10/20 »
It is a shame we cannot see more of the house in the background - it has a passing resemblance to the Junction Hotel but not remotely conclusive.
Edit to add:  I came across this  http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/railway_howitzer_at_halwill/index.shtml  which claims the building in the background is the Junction Hotel and adds some more information.




Excellent find, thanks.


Of course, the best evidence here would be, as they say, a smoking gun........

thomasdevon

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #35 on: 09:59:33, 26/10/20 »
An unexpectedly good information source on archaeological locations.


Found that Historic England have an easy to use map at https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/map-search?clearresults=true. Just zoom in on the area of interest and click on the site marked to bring up details. These can be surprisingly detailed re the objects in question and their precise location etc. but they also put up some really good historical context which explains why the object(s) have been listed.

BuzyG

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #36 on: 13:02:02, 09/11/20 »
Had an invigorating trek yesterday on the north moor, but ran into some map issues after leaving Hound Tor (there are two of course - I'm referring to the Hound Tor just E of Steeperton).


I wanted to explore mapped points generally SE, destination Scorhill Stone Circle and so headed S towards Watern Tor. The intention was about half-way to Watern to pick up the trail coming NE from Hangingstone Hill and follow that further NE to Gartaven Ford and cross the Gallaven Brook there.


Two issues arose quickly - firstly I could not find the Hangingstone trail and even hunted as far S as the Walla Brook and failed to find the junction. Even from an elevation there was no sign of a trail heading NE. Has anyone ever used this trail who can confirm its there???


Secondly, when I eventually got to Gartaven Ford, its seems pretty likely this is misnamed on the OS maps. There is a ford but its a crossing the Gallaven Brook which issues from Galaven Mire. Crossing's Dartmoor refers to it as "Gallaven Ford". Am I right does anyone know?


Also, at Galaven / Gartaven / Gallaven Ford there is what looks like a pretty substantial dam across the brook. Yet Crossing doesn't mention this. Does he describe it elsewhere maybe?


He does say that between Hound Tor and Kennon Hill there are mine workings including Ruelake Pit, London Pit and Proctor's Gully. Ruelake Pit is marked on the OS, but in blue text, as a water feature. Surely this is incorrect? The brook, the Rue Lake brook is a water feature but is not named on the OS, though I did find its course and it does look to have been mined. I also found to the E of the Rue Lake a deep dry gulley which must have been caused by mining: the track E from Hound Tor directly to Kennon Hill skirts the blind head of this feature. Can anyone clear up which of these features exist and their names? I start to suspect Crossing has published too many names here to match what's on the ground.


I have walked Hangingstone Hill to Watern tor this year.  There is a good easy to follow, well trodden trail between the two. It comes down from Hangingstone towards Wild tor, it then breaks off right due east and crosses Walla brook, before splitting into smaller trails up to the various tor out crops.


As for names, they are not really so important.  They change with the generations. Beg ben's home was St Stephens tower. Currently the Elizabeth Tower.  No doubt some one will rename it gain before it falls down.  What matters to each of us may be different too.  I love coming across oddments and artifices on the moor and I also love tor bagging.  But it's more about having been in touch with that artefact or piece of the moor than the name.  The history of what went before should be recorded though and I guess naming things is all part of that, as well as being a political tool to demonstrate the position and power of what ever the name was derived from.

ninthace

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #37 on: 13:35:59, 09/11/20 »
Here is a trace from one if my trips that includes the route Buzy is talking about
https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/1909489/170720-Hangingstone
And here is one using Gartaven Ford
https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/2127620/180522-Gidleigh

And this might be the route you were looking for
https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/2309578/180718-Shilstone-Tor-Hound-Tor-Cosdon-Hill
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Jac

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #38 on: 14:24:56, 09/11/20 »
As for names, they are not really so important.  They change with the generations. Beg ben's home was St Stephens tower. Currently the Elizabeth Tower.  No doubt some one will rename it gain before it falls down.  What matters to each of us may be different too.  I love coming across oddments and artifices on the moor and I also love tor bagging.  But it's more about having been in touch with that artefact or piece of the moor than the name.  The history of what went before should be recorded though and I guess naming things is all part of that, as well as being a political tool to demonstrate the position and power of what ever the name was derived from.

' Rose by another name .....etc' balanced by 'Naming of Parts'

Names allow us to communicate more accurately. It wasn't until I moved to Devon and acquired farming friends that I realised all fields had names. So obvious really but I'd never needed to refer to a particular field before.
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thomasdevon

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #39 on: 17:25:42, 09/11/20 »

I have walked Hangingstone Hill to Watern tor this year.  There is a good easy to follow, well trodden trail between the two. It comes down from Hangingstone towards Wild tor, it then breaks off right due east and crosses Walla brook, before splitting into smaller trails up to the various tor out crops.


As for names, they are not really so important.  They change with the generations. Beg ben's home was St Stephens tower. Currently the Elizabeth Tower.  No doubt some one will rename it gain before it falls down.  What matters to each of us may be different too.  I love coming across oddments and artifices on the moor and I also love tor bagging.  But it's more about having been in touch with that artefact or piece of the moor than the name.  The history of what went before should be recorded though and I guess naming things is all part of that, as well as being a political tool to demonstrate the position and power of what ever the name was derived from.




I remember a few years back going the other way on this trail - Watern to Hangingstone. I do remember difficulties crossing the Walla Brook valley where it seems to have been channelled and there's fast deep water in straight deep channels - not nice - and I also got into some nasty bog on the same leg I think. Think it would be best to make a little detour next time. I'm good at detours........

lostme1

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #40 on: 08:51:16, 10/11/20 »
' Rose by another name .....etc' balanced by 'Naming of Parts'

Names allow us to communicate more accurately. It wasn't until I moved to Devon and acquired farming friends that I realised all fields had names. So obvious really but I'd never needed to refer to a particular field before.

My house was built in 1949 on agricultural land and the field was known as All Stone Field by the farmer. Every time I do some gardening I am reminded of the name. I remove stones from a bed only to find more come to the surface. The farmer knew what he was talking about.
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ninthace

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Re: Points on Dartmoor not marked on OS maps
« Reply #41 on: 09:44:57, 10/11/20 »
There is a cottage in a dank dip dear us that has an upmarket name since it was sold and done up but is still referred to by locals as Forlorn Hope.  The estate agent must have done a good job on that one.
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