Author Topic: How Water proof is Water proof.  (Read 5622 times)

BuzyG

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How Water proof is Water proof.
« on: 17:29:41, 27/04/16 »
I have recently come back to walking, from surfing.  As a result I still have kit that I bought back in the 80's, that is perfectly serviceable and fit for purpose.   I was out on Bodmin a few weeks back and it bucketed down.  I was wearing my Tresspass jacket rated to TP75 which I believe is water proof from 2000mm – 5000mm. but what on earth does this mean.  The long and the short of it is I started feeling cold and realized my shoulders were getting wet, where the rucksack straps lay.  Fortunately I had an ancient waterproof with me. So I whipped of my TP jacket put on the old one,. no more water.  That got me looking at the ratings but I'm still not much wiser.  It's all well and good that modern fabrics are breathable.  But not if they are not going to keep you dry when it rains properly.  

youradvocate

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #1 on: 18:32:59, 27/04/16 »
There have been a lot of good replies in the past on this subject which I have read. Some I understand but mostly I do not have a clue. All I know is that I bought an expensive waterproof jacket which appeared to keep me dry for a over a year and I then became aware that the water was seeping though and staining my hiking shirt. Taking advice from the forum I washed and reproofed it. I think its back to normal but I'm not that confident. Once I've been out in some real rain I hopefully will then know for sure?

kinkyboots

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #2 on: 18:46:51, 27/04/16 »
It sounds like the PU coating on the fabric surface has been worn away by the constant rubbing of your rucksack straps or has just simply deteriorated over time.

Trespass are a budget brand (ie you get what you pay for) and I can't seem to find any care and maintenance advice or instructions on their website.

If you've had the jacket since the 80's as your post suggests then given it's age I think it's done exceptionally well and you've probably had more than your money's worth out of it. I'm just wondering how old the "ancient waterproof" is?  ;D

It may be worth trying to clean and reproof the jacket with Nikwax Techwash and Nikwax TX Direct Wash In but I have my doubts that it would be an effective solution as the PU coating on the surface of the fabric is applied during the fabric manufacturing process. Alternatively you can contact Trespass for advice here http://www.trespass.com/contacts

This may help to explain the hydrostatic head rating system Trespass use (think imaginary column of water).


BuzyG

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #3 on: 22:00:25, 27/04/16 »
Thanks Kinkyboots.  The Trespass Jacket is only 2years old.  No idea what the old one is made of, just know it still keeps out the worst of the weather.


I had read that article from Trespass. But the number of meters of water thing is lost on me.

botty

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #4 on: 18:12:10, 28/04/16 »
Various on Google, this is one place that explains to an extent http://www.mountainwarehouse.com/expert-advice/waterproof-jacket-guide/

BuzyG

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #5 on: 19:15:23, 28/04/16 »
Various on Google, this is one place that explains to an extent http://www.mountainwarehouse.com/expert-advice/waterproof-jacket-guide/


Really good article.  Backs up what my son suggested.  I may just have been sweating a lot, earlier in the accent and then that cooled and that appeared like the jacket was leaking.  It was soaked.


So last night I went for a quick march 7km over a few Tors on Bodmin moor, after work.  It was a cold evening, I started out about 7pm.  Just the jacket with a T shirt underneath.  Sure enough by the time I got back to the car the Jacket was damp on the inside and not a cloud in sight. So now I just  need to work out how not to sweat so much.   ;)


For info.  I'm new back to walking after 25 years surfing in North the Atlantic Winters, so it may take me a while to get the hang of this being all warm and toasty and on dry land lark.   ;D
« Last Edit: 19:19:41, 28/04/16 by BuzyG »

route2rock

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #6 on: 21:58:29, 28/04/16 »
A few things to consider:
The moisture vapour can only pass out through the jacket if the pores are not saturated on the outside (water should bead and run off, if it soaks the fabric, this becomes a solid water barrier stopping the vapour leaving). Reproofing will help this.

The pores in the membrane are tiny, and will quickly become full of general grime or even salt from your sweat. Again this would stop the moisture leaving. Regular washing will help this.

If it is very cold outside and much warmer in a jacket, you may experience condensation to a certain level, like with a glass window. Venting can help this.

If you are wearing a heavy rucksack, there will be a lot of pressure pushing any water on the jacket, forcing it through the material.

Use wicking tops to move sweat away from your body, and keep zips open where possible.

Find out what I've been up to @ http://www.instagram.com/route2rock :)

sussamb

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #7 on: 06:41:13, 29/04/16 »
Best thing to do with a waterproof is keep it in your sack and wear it as little as possible  O0
Where there's a will ...

glovepuppet

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #8 on: 07:08:51, 29/04/16 »
If you are wearing a heavy rucksack, there will be a lot of pressure pushing any water on the jacket, forcing it through the material.

Use wicking tops to move sweat away from your body, and keep zips open where possible.


Both of these are good points.


The pressure of the straps on the shoulders can often be enough to force water through the fabric of the jacket, especially if the fabric is of a lower spec.


Venting is very important - pit zips can help, also open unused pockets. Often, if a bit too warm, I leave the main front zip open and just do up the velcro or press studs designed to hold the storm flap in place - works well, as long as your jacket has a strom flap. Mine do, as I must confess I don't trust waterproof zips yet!  :D




Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #9 on: 11:57:09, 29/04/16 »
Any modern fabric that relies on a PU coating to bead the water away from the fabric, will eventually let in moisture.
Water repellant coatings lose their effectiveness over time, and then the fabric soaks up the moisture, resulting in build up of condensation and dampness inside the garment, this becomes more of a problem in warmer weather.
The wearing of ruck sacs, and other items on your shoulders,will cause abrasion around the shoulders and waist, increasing the likely hood of moisture building up.

The only material ive tried that is virtually bulletproof, regarding keeping the damp out, in any weather, is Ventile.

I borrowed a relatives  double Ventile jacket many years ago, and tried it out in the most hostile weather above llanthony.

The jacket does become quite heavy when saturated with rain, but due to the properties of the Egyptian cotton, it remains virtually dry,in even the heaviest of rain.


Few companies now manufacture walking clothing from the material, simply because it is incredibly expensive.

Your average jacket can cost over £500, and a double layered version even more.

Treated carefully,every top quality waterproof will keep the rain away, but due to their over all design, and reliance on water beading coatings, the moisture will eventually find its way through.

NeilC

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #10 on: 12:57:18, 29/04/16 »
Any modern fabric that relies on a PU coating to bead the water away from the fabric, will eventually let in moisture.
Water repellant coatings lose their effectiveness over time, and then the fabric soaks up the moisture, resulting in build up of condensation and dampness inside the garment, this becomes more of a problem in warmer weather.

Treated carefully,every top quality waterproof will keep the rain away, but due to their over all design, and reliance on water beading coatings, the moisture will eventually find its way through.


You seem to be conflating condensation and water getting in.


Are you saying you think that PU fabrics actually let water in when they stop beading?

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #11 on: 13:09:23, 29/04/16 »
Once the water repellant coating eventually wears off, the garment soaks up a great deal of moisture, virtually destroying any waterproofing capabilities.
When the fabric is not allowed to breathe efficiently, the condensation and moisture build up inside, makes the owner think the jacket is leaking, when in fact its not.

In warm very humid conditions,you might as well be wearing a bin bag.

Restoring the water repellant coating results in improved breathability, but ive found that the water repellant coating is never as efficient as it was when new.

Ive still own a very little used Mountain Equipment Kongur jacket, and have tried in vain to restore the water repellant coating.

The fabric quickly soaks up moisture, and its only when your on the move that the fabric becomes waterlogged.

Any fabric that relies on a water repellant coating to maintain breathability and performance, will in time lose the ability to perform.

You can try and restore the water beading, but in very heavy rain, like the kind i experienced yesterday, the jacket will eventually soak up water again.


You are in effect, losing the battle.

NeilC

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #12 on: 13:11:28, 29/04/16 »
Yes but you were saying "let in moisture" which isn't the same thing as condensation.

kinkyboots

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #13 on: 12:10:43, 30/04/16 »
The only material ive tried that is virtually bulletproof, regarding keeping the damp out, in any weather, is Ventile.

I borrowed a relatives  double Ventile jacket many years ago, and tried it out in the most hostile weather above llanthony.

The jacket does become quite heavy when saturated with rain, but due to the properties of the Egyptian cotton, it remains virtually dry,in even the heaviest of rain.

Few companies now manufacture walking clothing from the material, simply because it is incredibly expensive.

Your average jacket can cost over £500, and a double layered version even more.

I came across these double layer ventile overtrousers reduced down from £99.95 to £59.98

http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/offers/over-trouser

NB Only available in size Medium 34"-36" waist with 32" inside leg so a bargain for somebody if you're the right size.

BuzyG

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Re: How Water proof is Water proof.
« Reply #14 on: 19:25:08, 02/05/16 »
Learning a good deal from these replies.  I wore a much newer Jacket Yesterday for a 15 mile walk across Dartmoor.  It rained incessantly for the last five hours.  That  misty hanging moorland rain.  Needless to say by the time we arrived back at the car the jacket was starting to let water through.  Interestingly I was not the wettest.. So I guess if you get enough rain some is coming in with these modern fabrics. :o

 

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