Stupid? Question about the CMD Arete

[Mel]

So, as a predominantly non-scrambler, why am I eying up the CMD arête?  Can you cling on to things with hands, feet, bottoms, teeth, etc.  As a sufferer of vertigo (medical - not a fear of heights) should I even be wondering if I could do it?  On my own.  Having not done anything like that before 
 
Should I just wipe these musings from my mind and stick with the Mountain Path and feel immensely proud simply of the fact I got to the top.  Full Stop.?
 
 

[domtheone]

Did it in winter conditions Mel.

In reverse so i went up the north face of Nevis then back down across the CMD, following the climb up.  One of the toughest walks (hike/scramble) i've done physically. Especially since it was winter conditions.

First point.   With the traditional route.   It'll be a long, tough climb up to the top. (Was a long descent down)  Probably have to climb 1000m before you even get to the crossing itself.  The whole round will be a tough old day.  Think 8,9,10,11 hours.

Have you done Crib Goch?  Striding Edge? Sharp Edge?

Personally speaking, i would rate it 3rd out of 4 in the shaky knees test out of all of the above, with Striding being 4th. 

One side is less steep than the other so you would generally stick to that side as you traverse along.  Lot's of footholds/handholds etc.

When are you thinking of doing it?

Can you get to the Lakes and try Striding and Sharp Edge first?

If you can cope with both of them (especially Sharp Edge) then i'd say you can cope with the CMD.  Technically at least.

Hopefullly others, with more experience than my 1 crossing lol, will chip in.

[Skip]

This might help you decide:
http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10076

Or this, one of several similar threads on OM:
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/walking-and-climbing/cmd-arete/25300.html

Search Google images to get an idea what the ridge looks like.

[alewife]

I don't know it at all,  but my advice for what its worth is not to do it on your own. If you have't done anything similar you won't know how the vertigo will affect you: its far safer to have a wingman (-woman) to keep you going.

[Mel]

Dom - I've got a week in the Highlands the beginning of next month    so hopefully the weather will still be ... not icy on higher ground!
 
Never done anything similar, no Crib Goch, no Striding or Sharp Edges - I've always have the mindset that the view's the same from the top of a mountain no matter how you get to it.  Trouble is, I keep reading that the views of the north face of Ben Nevis are stonkingly good from the CMD arête and it's got me wondering if it's do-able by a total novice to that kind of stuff 
 
Skip - cheers for those links.  Believe me, I've googled, youtubed and surfed     WalkHighlands has been a mine of information for other walks in the Fort William area and I might possibly have dismissed the CMD info as "totally terrifying" at some stage.  Time for a re-visit/read me thinks    I actually found quite a useful article in Trail mag a while back about climbing the Ben via the CMD route though I think it was part of a 2 day wildcamp type thing.  The OM discussion seems to fall into 2 camps of exhilarating/scary and there's nowt to it 
 
Deb - the vertigo thing is fine so long as I can either hold onto things or bum-shuffle. Coming down Devils Kitchen was a fine example of that where I had to either down-climb or bum-shuffle down it cos I couldn't step down forwards as others were doing because the sheer drop was making my head go swimmy (like how you feel when you've had too much to drink and the room spins    ).  It's not fear.  I just lose my balance really easily if I don't hold on or sit     A wingman/woman would be great but seeing as I'm there on my own .... 
 
Arrrrgh *stamps foot in frustration*   
 
 

[domtheone]

The views of the north face are pretty fantastic.

Roughly 13 hours of daylight in mid Sep Mel.

If you're gonna do the whole CMD round, then plan to give yourself as much daylight as possible.  It's a long, long climb from the bottom.

[Summit]

Mel I mean this with all due respect and I am sure all others that have ventured onto Ben Nevis will agree. When you descend from Ben Nevis via the main path. Tourist route, pony path which ever you want to call it the steps are quite large. The drops are quite big. Having been there when you descended the Devils Kitchen I would expect that you would be in a similar position coming off Ben Nevis. However Ben Nevis is almost twice the ascent and descent of Y Garn so at least twice the effort. I have guided groups of charity walkers on Ben Nevis and one day the total time of the slowest group was 14 hours. I would strongly recommend that for your first ascent given the issues you have; you shouldn't do this on your own and you should have done this when there was more daylight hours. I understand there is approx 13 hours of daylight in September however this can be vastly reduced by cloud cover or bad weather. Obviously this is only my experienced recommendation.

As for CMD Arete Please do not attempt this until you have similar experience and I would suggest a guide or at the least someone with experience on the ridge goes with you. It requires commitment and a good head for heights. I suffer from vertigo (medical inner ear) but I have lots of experience and I know I can overcome and cope with any experience of vertigo on narrow ridges. Again this is only my experienced recommendation it's up to you what you want to do.

[sparnel]

Mel  -  Fort Wm/Glencoe is my home area.  When are you visiting if you don't mind me asking?
Sparnel

[Innominate Man]

I read this post yesterday and have since given it some thought and Summit has made the points well (which I had in mind).
It's not for me to put anyone off and I want everyone to enjoy the hills but given what you mentioned about pains etc I would be inclined to think long and hard about your intended route.
At the very lest, if you still wish to go ahead and give it a go, it would make all the difference doing so with others.
The one thing that struck me on the Ben, for the first time, was that it felt twice as big as some of the Lakeland hills, perhaps like going up Bowfell and then at the top you've half as much again to do ...... phew !!


My last thought was for the weather and it's impact upon navigation. All very well on the days such as photographed by Trail, but if the clag descends it's a while different ball game - especially if you don't have the long distance views to help show you the way.


But by all means your dream sounds brilliant and I hope you do tackle it but it does command respect or it can make you suffer.

[midweekmountain]

The easiest way to do the CMD side of the ben is to get a key for the forestry tracks up from the north face car park it knocks at least 2 hours and a lot of uphill off the day.

[Mel]

Does that key make the arête as wide as the M6 as well MWM?     
 
Totally get where you're coming from Summit and IM.  If it's any consolation, when I posted my initial question, I thought I'm punching well above my weight with this idea and my only reason for posting was because I'd heard that the views are pretttty gooooood from the arête.  I'm not fussed about adrenaline-fuelled adventures, just views.  Chances are, I'll "bag The Ben" via the mountain/pony/tourist route... I just want to see it's gnarly north face a bit up close and personal as well, so I may well just go as far as I dare go and turn back.  As for daylight hours...  ohhhh, I wish I could pick and choose my holiday days now like I used to be able to    but I can't so I'll make do with what I can have and set off at the crack of dawn or before.
 
I'm alright with a map and compass, I'll have a backup GPS, and I've read and made note of all the warnings of coming down the main route in bad weather.  I'm aware it's a never-ending, relentless slog up/down.  Can't say fairer than that really    my fitness and health is what it is and only I know how far I can push myself.  I know I'll regret it more if I don't at least give the "main route" up Ben Nevis a go.
 
The CMD arête I'll probably go and eye up to see how I judge it.  Probably won't do it.  Not the full round anyway.
 
Sparnel - I'm there the first full week in September.
 

[Innominate Man]

Mel,
Here is a thought but please bear with me:-
There used to be a car I really liked. Eventually I was able to buy one (an old one admittedly). I had been driving it around for a decent amount of time until I realised that I was a tad disappointed. You see the issue was - the pleasure was in looking at them but being inside one you only look out of it at others. The pleasure was the opposite of what I expected.
Is your goal to see the north side of the Ben or to summit it ?
If you want to see the north face then why not head up onto the CMD and the whole thing will be getting closer and more dramatic all the way around. You can decide how far you continue to suit the day.
Just a thought 
I wish you well and sure you'll have a good day whatever takes your fancy.

[Mel]

Is your goal to see the north side of the Ben or to summit it ?

Both. 
 
I now envisage 2 different trips 
 
 

[domtheone]

I guess you could do the initial long climb from the car park up to the CMD. 

The views of the north face are great as you ascend more and more.  Once you top out, you can make your way across to see the start of the arete (another great sight) curving round.

Check out the 4th pic in the link below.  An awesome sight!!!

http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/fortwilliam/carnmordeargarete.shtml

If you called it a day there and retraced your steps back to the car park, it'd probably still be the equivalent of a full days walk in the Lakes/Snowdonia as you'll have done over 1000m of ascent already.

[Mel]

... Fort Wm/Glencoe is my home area.  ...

Sparnel, after my drive up today, I have to say that you are a VERY lucky man