Author Topic: Let's Get Scotland Mapped  (Read 563 times)

happyhiker

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Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« on: 10:42:49, 06/01/17 »
Ramblers Scotland have launched a campaign to get Scotland's Core Paths marked on OS maps. I would love to see this, as someone who enjoys using OS maps to plan and navigate on walks. The current poor marking of paths in Scotland frankly puts me off walking there. You can add your support via this link http://www.ramblers.org.uk/get-involved/campaign-with-us/core-paths.aspx


Incidentally, I have put this under General Discussion rather than Scotland as those who do not currently visit Scotland for the reasons above, may never look at the Scotland section.
« Last Edit: 10:47:46, 06/01/17 by happyhiker »

Islandplodder

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #1 on: 12:19:13, 06/01/17 »
I'm all for it, as long as the said core paths actually exist on the ground.  In some parts of Scotland I think path might actually mean 'route' which might be a path here and there.  Still, I suppose if they are marked on the map they will be walked more, and eventually become paths through the tread of many boots.  This has happened in the case of one or two of my local routes when someone got funding to waymark them.  But it might put people off walking in Scotland even more if they come up expecting a path and end up in a trackless bog.

Mel

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #2 on: 13:58:34, 06/01/17 »
www.walkhighlands.co.uk
 
Plenty of gpx files and route descriptions on there which I found a real help  :)
 
There are paths marked on the map, they're just the faint black dotted footpath marks rather than the green (legally submitted) PRoW ones.  I assume, because of Scotland's right to roam policy thingy there is no LEGAL (PRoW) requirement to mark paths.
 
I think map/compass/navigation skills are required more due to needing to read the land and relate it to the map - yes you may be following a path on the ground but do you know where you are on a map?  That's maybe the daunting thing?  Does a green dashed line give an emotional cushion?
 
 
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Owen

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #3 on: 14:44:58, 06/01/17 »

I think map/compass/navigation skills are required more due to needing to read the land and relate it to the map - yes you may be following a path on the ground but do you know where you are on a map?  That's maybe the daunting thing?  Does a green dashed line give an emotional cushion?


For the next three maybe four months the path could well be buried under a lot of snow, this is where navigational skills come in to their own. You can't rely on being able to follow a path. Not everyone wants the hills littered with waymarks, the Lakes, Peak and Wales are already totally spoiled please leave Scotland free of them. 

BuzyG

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #4 on: 16:48:38, 06/01/17 »
I'm not a huge fan of marked routes.  Where there is access to roam freely, people should make there own way if practical.  We have more than enough roads in this fine kingdom of ours.  Different matter through private owned land.

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #5 on: 18:33:30, 06/01/17 »
Sounds like a great idea, but i will never forget my first visit to the NE Highlands, last October.
I just could not get my mind around  the extreme isolation and remoteness of the land way beyond Inverness, i had never seen such isolation, let alone single track roads for mile after mile, into desolation.
I stayed in Dornoch, and traversed the wilds towards the Kyle of Tounge and back via Ullapool.

Mapping every path in that area, would be virtually impossible, and i sure take my hats off to the OS staff who catalogued all the high mountains in that incredibly remote part of the Uk.

I recon the current OS mapping of the Highlands will be the best we are likely to see, as the task of mapping every path, is virtually impossible, or a very costly and time consuming exercise.


Scotland to the South of Inverness, is very straight forward, as this is where the major population of the country resides, but the real remote areas near Benn Hope, that's a huge ask from the OS lads.
« Last Edit: 18:40:05, 06/01/17 by Dyffryn Ardudwy »

vizzavona

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #6 on: 21:59:13, 06/01/17 »
Just pick up any of the Hillwalkers guidebooks to the Munros or the Corbetts and where there are marked recommended routes showing the way  to the summits and you can expect to find paths that have developed over the years on most of the hills.  Not forgetting many fine tracks made by stalkers and estate staff.  After all there have been several thousand completers of all the listed Scottish Hills so lots of recent footfalls.
As someone said earlier that paths do tend to disappear under a 'normal' winters snow. There is a satisfying pleasure when you work out a interesting route using the O.S. map.

Cairn hopper

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #7 on: 09:09:45, 07/01/17 »
Possibly the excersise has been misunderstood. The "core path" scheme doesn't really relate to hill areas. The Core Path initiative was meant to encourage local authorities to open up path networks in council areas.


The idea. Especially here in the central belt was. Local villages were adding more and more housing for commuters into the city's. This housing was being taken up by "outsiders" attracted by cheap housing close enough to commute to there work. Locals living in these villages knew local paths. Sometimes these paths were used by miners, steel workers etc who would walk to work sometimes by direct routes. The mines and steel works closed but the networks of paths from surrounding villages. Farm workers etc would know routes between one farm to another staying away from boggy ground, livestock etc.


These path networks needed to be mapped and logged by a core path representative and the paths would be logged and cared for future generations. Lots of these paths then became adopted by Sustrans and became cycle paths etc. I believe the core path was such a success in the central belt it was to be adopted throughout Scotland.

vizzavona

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #8 on: 10:13:52, 07/01/17 »
Hello,
Without knowing too much about 'Core Paths' but it would appear that this is happening now up here in Highland.  In the local villages around here in recent times information boards with maps of routes around and connecting the villages have appeared along with the posts/arrows to indicate the way etc. on these, what I would call and have become possibly, promenade du dimanche walks.   I guess that these routes are recorded and maintained by the Council.  Maybe we should have concern that with cut backs with the financing of these projects that the maintenance may not be carried out?
It is perhaps too easy to not be aware of the lower level networks of paths when having the blinkers on when heading out to the higher summits.

Islandplodder

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #9 on: 11:27:33, 07/01/17 »
I was vaguely involved in a project a couple of years ago to see if some lines drawn on local OS maps equated to paths on the ground.  Most of them didn't.  However a few did, and these are gradually being improved, maintained, which mainly involves putting duckboards over the worst of the bogs, and waymarked.  I am not sure if this was part of the core paths thing, but if so, it would probably be too soon for them to appear on maps.
Generally there aren't many paths here, and I sympathise with BusyG and Owen about it being a bit of a shame to put waymarks and duckboards around those few areas that still feel remote.  On the other hand the highlands and islands are a big area, and a few paths for those that feel more secure following one, either through inexperience or lack of fitness and agility, don't really impinge much on those who want to enjoy the remoteness. They are easy enough to avoid, and after a long day of rough walking it is sometimes quite nice to have an easier yomp home.
What would be really nice would be to retrieve some of the old paths that appear on 19th century maps, but that is a whole different story.

agentmancuso

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #10 on: 13:41:16, 08/01/17 »
This is always a bit of a sensitive subject in Scotland. Even when there was first talk of introducing a long-distance trail like the West Highland Way during the early 1960s, the traditional hillwalking here community was bitterly opposed to importing this English practice in a way that probably seems incomprehensible to most walkers now. Because English law (and in many ways, popular English opinion on the land question generally) is so backward, the whole concept of Rights of Way tends to operate in reverse. i.e. the fact that certain selected lines on the ground or on the map are acknowledged as accessible by right is frequently taken as an understanding that the absence of any such statutory RoW equates to a prohibition on access. Idiotic feudalism, but there you have it.

The fear in Scotland prior to the WHW being brought into being in 1967 was that its presence would be used by landlords to restrict access to neighbouring hills. That didn't really come to pass, and now the de facto Right to Roam claimed (and practised) by walkers in Scotland has been encoded in the Land Reform legislation from Holyrood, this fear has largely evaporated, and opposition tends to be from an aesthetic point of view.

craven50

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #11 on: 16:24:40, 08/01/17 »
Ramblers Scotland have launched a campaign to get Scotland's Core Paths marked on OS maps. I would love to see this, as someone who enjoys using OS maps to plan and navigate on walks. The current poor marking of paths in Scotland frankly puts me off walking there.

Oh dear a big mistake that! Scotland has different laws governing footpaths. Plus a right to roam! When powers that be try to change things it usually puts restrictions in. These curtail your rights. This has happened in recent years in Scotland due to the Scottish Parliament!

"Scotland's legislation for public access to the outdoors has seen a transformation under the Scottish Parliament, with the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 establishing a statutory framework of public access rights to most land and inland water."

And that reform has actually ridden or restricted the general public from access that was once in place. Leave well alone. RANT over.

Plus the OS do map all Scottish public rights of way that exist >:( . Ask the Scottish Rights of way Society There is just not as many as in England.

« Last Edit: 16:42:53, 08/01/17 by craven50 »
Munros:282   Corbetts:222 Grahams:42   Donalds:9 Hewitts:137 Wainwrights:214
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barewirewalker

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #12 on: 18:20:49, 08/01/17 »
Demarcation on the OS map is important, the faint grey dotted lines are like a ghostly shadow, which haunt landowners of their past corruption of the definitive map.


To get a way embedded into the users awareness and persuade the occupiers of territory that their occupation has wider social implications beyond the boundaries of their ownership needs mapping. The OS map is the finest in the world, it was developed for the defense of the nation, it brings to our notice political boundaries and social freedom.


It is totally logical that accepted ways should be mapped on OS maps, in fact essential for the understanding between user and occupier so that the countryside is shared fairly.
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happyhiker

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #13 on: 19:15:21, 08/01/17 »
Oh dear a big mistake that! Scotland has different laws governing footpaths. Plus a right to roam! When powers that be try to change things it usually puts restrictions in. These curtail your rights. This has happened in recent years in Scotland due to the Scottish Parliament!

"Scotland's legislation for public access to the outdoors has seen a transformation under the Scottish Parliament, with the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 establishing a statutory framework of public access rights to most land and inland water."

And that reform has actually ridden or restricted the general public from access that was once in place. Leave well alone. RANT over.

Plus the OS do map all Scottish public rights of way that exist >:( . Ask the Scottish Rights of way Society There is just not as many as in England.


To clarify, from my point of view, it is not a case of identifying ROW. I am aware of Scotland's right to roam. However, it would just be nice to be able to work out from a map where viable paths actually are, without having to rely on GPX trails or books. Not everyone uses GPS receivers and books in my experience do not always give good directions. Depends on the author.

agentmancuso

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Re: Let's Get Scotland Mapped
« Reply #14 on: 20:34:39, 08/01/17 »

To clarify, from my point of view, it is not a case of identifying ROW. I am aware of Scotland's right to roam. However, it would just be nice to be able to work out from a map where viable paths actually are, without having to rely on GPX trails or books. Not everyone uses GPS receivers and books in my experience do not always give good directions. Depends on the author.

Yes, I tend to agree, now.