Author Topic: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere  (Read 23495 times)

ninthace

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #225 on: 15:59:46, 23/01/18 »
Not surprised by the MOD(RAF) objection. Flying over wires is a nightmare especially at low level and high speed.  I have only done it in helicopters and small aircraft but I can attest that it is extremely difficult to judge exactly where the wires are in space so the normal tactic, where possible, is either to fly over one of the supporting pylons (which would probably put the pilots too close to the sides of the valley) or to climb to a safe height well in advance (which detracts from the point of low flying training).  Moreover, the wires themselves would probably have be marked by fluorescent markers, which would not do much for the running properties of the zip wire pulley! Alternatively an additional wire, higher than the zip wires, with markers would have to be deployed.  Neither solution would add to the beauty of the lake!


Which raises another point - measures to mitigate bird strikes on the wires? Large birds such as geese and swans have the same trouble as aircrew when it comes to wires but without the benefit of low flying charts.
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Glyno

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #226 on: 17:06:42, 23/01/18 »
Thanks LL, those are interesting figures, only 163 in favour!



Must have cost MT a fortune in stamps

Strider

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #227 on: 19:45:22, 23/01/18 »
I'm sure Richard Leafe helped with a few.....
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Strider

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #228 on: 19:57:10, 23/01/18 »
Got to admit I'm slightly puzzled by the latest turn of events.

- MOD originally offered no objection even after being told how high above the lake the wires would be
- TTT state in their application that cables don't need to be illuminated
- was it not obvious from the outset that this would be a hazard to aircraft?
- now the penny seems to have dropped at Whitehall

If I was TTT I'd be livid about this.  If this gets thrown out on air navigation grounds then the MOD have pretty much wasted everybody's time for the last 3 months.  I wonder if they'll offer to pay Zipoff's web hosting bill? ;)

Pretty sure I read that the Air Ambulance had objected too.
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pdstsp

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #229 on: 08:20:15, 24/01/18 »
Good point - but somehow I doubt Government money will be offered!


I think, though, that we have to hope that this gets rejected on the other grounds, particularly the Sandford Principle as, hopefully, this would stop TTT (or another developer) going to another valley or lake, where low flying is not an issue, and starting the whole process all over again.  Lingmell to Yewbarrow anyone?

April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #230 on: 12:42:24, 24/01/18 »
I remember being surprised at the MOD response in Jun 17 to TTT saying they had no objection. I wonder if the info TTT supplied was not clear enough as to where the wires would be? It seems when they looked at the planning application once it was submitted it was more obvious they had to object to it?

Knowing the load of old tosh that is supplied by TTT and Mike Turner it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't provided the MOD with the full details in June.

"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #231 on: 10:26:36, 26/01/18 »
The Friends of the Lake District have just posted the following on their FB page.  It's about the planning application for a dual purpose aerial wire at Honister Slate Mine which has now been lodged with the LDNPA.

We have been made aware that the planning proposal detailed below is now live and available to view online at the LDNPA planning portal.
Planning Reference: 7/2018/2011  (Full Planning application)
 Proposal: Dual purpose aerial wire for extraction of stone and tourism use
 Location: Honister Slate Mine, Honister Pass, Borrowdale, Keswick, CA12 5XN

You can view the application here: http://bit.ly/2ncl7Sc



April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #232 on: 12:13:28, 26/01/18 »
Thanks LL. I will have a look.
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Ridge

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #233 on: 09:28:28, 29/01/18 »
Debate in the House of Lords. Transcript here


https://www.friendsofthelakedistrict.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=8cd1aa69-abb2-4bd4-a888-ceec9429283b


Never did I think I would see the day where me and Norman Tebbit where on the same side of an argument.
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pdstsp

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #234 on: 10:32:29, 29/01/18 »
Thanks Ridge - I also like David Alton's input (Lord Alton of Liverpool) - the original battle for Thirlmere was referenced several times on Saturday.


April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #235 on: 13:38:14, 29/01/18 »
I saw the video on facebook, it was weird agreeing with something Norman Tebbit said  :)

The Friends of the Lake District have just posted the following on their FB page.  It's about the planning application for a dual purpose aerial wire at Honister Slate Mine which has now been lodged with the LDNPA.

I've not had much time to look at all the docs just the map of where the zip wire starts and ends.

The wire isn't going to start from the fell top, Black Star, but below it, so this isn't quite as awful as the previous plan. The problems of access and extra traffic on the Honister Pass from Seatoller and Buttermere will still remain and I think I remember this was one of the issues that was quoted in the refused application last time? I still feel that if this is approved it will set a precedent. There are so many quarries and mines in the Lake District, how many more zip wires would we end up with? My gut feeling is that it is still wrong to place a zip wire here although I know a lot of people think this is a good place for it. My thinking is that there is not much difference from putting it here than over Thirlmere, it is from a lake district fellside and the noise of the zippers would be heard on Fleetwith Pike and from the paths up to the Drum House and probably on the other fells nearby too.

I haven't looked at all the docs yet and I'm now wondering how the zippers will get up to the start? I will look at the rest of the docs tonight  :-\
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Ridge

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #236 on: 13:57:50, 29/01/18 »
Don't you think that the Honister application is interesting timing, just when perhaps they think people are getting tired of the fight.
If so they have seriously misjudged the type of people they are dealing with, we walk up mountains in the driving sleet  for pleasure.


From a traffic point of view I think you would be hard pressed to find a worse place in England to site an attraction which they are hoping will bring in lots of extra visitors.
Over hill, over dale. Thorough brush, thorough brier....
I do wander every where

April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #237 on: 18:10:03, 29/01/18 »
From a traffic point of view I think you would be hard pressed to find a worse place in England to site an attraction which they are hoping will bring in lots of extra visitors.

Oh, they have said some people may be using the Honister Rambler bus. Good luck trying to get on it, it isn't always guaranteed to have room, it can be like playing sardines in a tin and people do get turned away because it is full. Oh and it may well overheat on the way up to Honister  :D
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

April

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #238 on: 22:11:35, 29/01/18 »
I've been looking at some of the docs on the Honister App. Some of the figures are contradictory. The numbers of people who will descend the zip wire are no more than 57 in a day according to the visitor management plan, then no more than 3 groups of 12 in a day according to the noise impact assessment.  Apparently the shouts and screams of zippers will not be heard by humans. I found this hard to believe.

There are 2 parts to the zip wire, the highest one will only be used by people who have ascended the Via Ferrata so at least they will have to put some effort into getting there! They will go down the first zip wire, then use the second one to get down to the car park. Not all people on the Via Ferrata (12 at a time) will want to go down the zip wire and will walk down instead. The second zip wire can be used by disabled people and children under 10. I haven't read all the docs so I'm not sure how they will get to the start of the zip wire. The visitor management plan doesn't mention this 2nd part of the wire and how that will be managed, unless I've missed that bit.

The visitor plan says the Honister Rambler bus is "rarely over-subscribed". They should try getting on the 9.30am bus on a Saturday  ;D

I'm too tired to look at any more of it tonight!
 
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Another zip wire plan, this time across Thirlmere
« Reply #239 on: 15:58:11, 05/02/18 »

Terry Abraham will be on the Inside Out North East and Cumbria programme tonight, which is on BBC1 at 7:30, discussing the Zip Wire.