Author Topic: Overgrown public footpath  (Read 1426 times)

sussamb

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #15 on: 16:01:26, 06/11/17 »
If you can demonstrate 'reasonable cause' you're not doing anything illegal. 
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barewirewalker

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #16 on: 16:47:46, 06/11/17 »
I have posted quite often on the need for machetes in the past, sadly I think the interpretation of carrying a well honed machete may be more subjective than objective in the face of a landowner seeing his carefully nurtured obstruction being suitable annihilated.


Head high bracken, dense brambles and briars that have developed well into woody growth are a few of the simple reasons, why walkers should be expected to carry a suitable tool, to help keep our off road ways clear.



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Slogger

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #17 on: 16:55:28, 06/11/17 »
Some people for whatever reason just don't like walkers.
My wife and myself were on a walk in the Bowland area.
We saw on our map that the ROW that we were following did a big loop around and through a small housing area to reach a stile leading back into open countryside.
We could see this stile just 50 metres down this private drive from where we now were.
We thought we would go down the drive to the stile saving us best part of a mile around the loop.
As we crossed the A road to the drive a car came up. The driver was a police women, who told us that the drive was private and we were not allowed down it. I explained that we were just heading for the stile. She would have non of it. Feeling intimidated by her uniform we set off around the loop.
This eventually brought us out over a wall stile and through part of a garden before leading onto the cobbled road and the stile we wanted.
Only three stone built houses and there was a guy outside of this first one whose garden we were walking through. I mentioned that a lady had stopped us walking down to the stile. He sort of smirked but didn't say anything, (maybe his wife, we thought).
So we walked through one garden and past the other two houses, when we could have avoided them altogether by just going down the drive a little.

jimbob

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #18 on: 17:10:28, 06/11/17 »
Should have taken the policewoman number and reported her. She has no jurisdiction over simple trespass.  She can only intervene if she believes a criminal offence is about to be committed. Remember anything you say can be taken down and used as evidence  were she to arrest you. In this example you would be able to state clearly your intentions. The local constabulary  would then open themselves up to civil action  should they be unable to prove any criminal intent.
Too little, too late, too bad......

barewirewalker

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #19 on: 17:37:37, 06/11/17 »
Care should be taken, before jumping to conclusions, where there seems to be anomalies. Often because of the difference in understanding of the purpose of the 1949 act that created the definitive map many surveyors or compilers thought that they recording ways for the use of local people. Today a broader knowledge of both political purpose and the legal detail would be in the instructions but this was absent in those far off post war years.


The anomaly of a right of way ending at the back of a property and not actually connecting with the highway as it is seen today is quite common. The anomaly of Orleton Hall, Wellington is such where a landowner can claim that a half mile of white lane is private so that a RoW out of the town just comes to a sudden end.


West of the Breidens there is a lovely path across several sloping meadows, it would help to connect the Breidens to the Maginnis Bridge, giving a wonderful route through countryside to cross the river Severn and the Welsh border.
Trouble is this paths (RoW) stops short of the lane by about 50yds at the garden of a cottage and connect to the road.


As with the Maginnis Bridge, RoW lead to both sides but there is no right of way across the bridge, so one of the best non highway crossings into mid Wales cannot be made known.
BWW
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sherpaboy

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #20 on: 10:24:45, 07/11/17 »
I would like to thank everyone who replied. Also i would like to say, normally i carry a pair of secatuers. But this actuall path is much to overgrown for using them on. Again is there a set time, in which, if the path is not used, it can be closed down?

Mel

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #21 on: 18:05:39, 07/11/17 »
... is there a set time, in which, if the path is not used, it can be closed down?


No.  If it is a legal Public Right of Way and marked as such on a map then it MIGHT only be closed if someone is willing to pay legal fees to apply for it's closure and there is no resistance to that request.  There's usually signage up (put up by the Local Authority/Council) to indicate if the path is undergoing any sort of request for closure.


I'm willing to be corrected on this bit though... if the path runs across that angry chappie's land, then he has a duty of care to maintain it to a reasonable/passable standard........  Barewirewalkeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!?.......
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barewirewalker

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #22 on: 09:59:55, 08/11/17 »

No.  If it is a legal Public Right of Way and marked as such on a map then it MIGHT only be closed if someone is willing to pay legal fees to apply for it's closure and there is no resistance to that request.  There's usually signage up (put up by the Local Authority/Council) to indicate if the path is undergoing any sort of request for closure.


I'm willing to be corrected on this bit though... if the path runs across that angry chappie's land, then he has a duty of care to maintain it to a reasonable/passable standard........  Barewirewalkeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!?.......



Agreed, a Right of Way cannot be closed through disuse. Mel is very right in raising 'Duty of Care', this is an aspect which there is not enough attention brought to bear on. The grant of Freehold has responsibilities, they may not be written down but perhaps it is time that landowners were bought to realise that they are part of a wider community.

AND as a P.S. Duty of care is something that comes into health and safety law.
« Last Edit: 10:16:28, 08/11/17 by barewirewalker »
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pleb

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #23 on: 10:06:12, 09/11/17 »
Think a PROW cannot be permanantly closed without an order signed off by a bod at the Home Office?

barewirewalker

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #24 on: 12:20:06, 09/11/17 »
I think the closure of a right of way has to be sought by the owner of the land it crosses and I believe the term is an 'extinguishment order' or something like that, that term seems to stick in my mind since my time on a LAF. I do not have a great ability to follow legal nitty gritty, because as a person, who has had more success in creating stuff, negativity does not seem to stick in my mind as much as positive lines of thought.


The big danger, I sense, is in the fast tracking that has been agreed for opening up 'lostways', since the demise of the lostways project and the 'Stepping Forward' initiative. I suspect that closures of seeming unused rights of way may well be given the same fast tracking as the re-establishment of lostways. The British notion of fair play despite the deliberate corruption of the definitive Map by the forefathers of todays landowners.


So often the important part of a notional lostway (say X2Y) may be a little used RoW (Y2Z) some distance from it, if there seems to be a continuity of way created by the lostway and it further links into the access network (W2X) we come up with  W2X + X2Y + Y2Z = a much increased distance of multiples a lot greater than 3.


English Nature suggested that 10% of our access network could have been lost to lostways but a more imaginative view of lostways could well show a far greater gain to our access network.


The Lostways Project by English Nature only investigated the legal strength of available proof to recover lost ways, they did not look at the political corruption that created those lostways or the value of an access network that might have been with their inclusion.


 
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Mel

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #25 on: 13:51:50, 09/11/17 »
Think a PROW cannot be permanantly closed without an order signed off by a bod at the Home Office?


Doubt it.  The Home Office, broadly speaking, deal with passports, UK border control, immigration, national security, (serious) crime prevention.  Some basic info here:  https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/home-office/about

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pauldawes

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #26 on: 14:24:53, 09/11/17 »
A couple of head scratchers today.


Never been to Langley Mill before..but decide today is day to rectify that. Look for a short walk in area, and easily find one:- Amber Valley Routeway 13, about 5 miles. Circular from centre of Langley Mill, doing part of Erewash canal. Flat as a pancake, but pleasant enough.


After a bit of argy-bargy finding start, following directions pretty easily, doubt if I was more than a yard or two off official route at any point of walk.


The "head scratchers" come towards end of walk, having reached a farm called "Park Farm". The public footpath is bang through farmyard..which has a big notice saying "Enter at own risk". Surely that has almost no legitimate meaning? Yes..I can see I have a duty to act reasonably on way through yard...but farmer can't dodge his own responsibilities to do same. (i.e. He knows a public footpath goes through yard..so no excuse to allow aggressive dogs run loose..whatever.)


Anyway..right through centre of yard..no dogs or anything else loose. Easily find exit stile...and easily find stile into next field. This stile has two signs on it. One a public footpath sign, confirming I'm bang on track and a second large warning sign saying "Caution Bull loose in field"!


There isn't...but what is point of sign? Surely no remotely sensible farmer puts any bull that is remotely dangerous in a field where a public footpath goes through??

sussamb

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #27 on: 15:09:49, 09/11/17 »
Farmers should remove signs when the bull isn't present but certain bull breeds under certain conditions can be in fields where there is public access.


As for the other sign that could be deemed to be threatening and an attempt to stop folks using the ROW.  I'd report it to your local council or whoever in your area is responsible for maintaining ROWs.  If I can find it I'll post a link about this as signage like that is, I think, illegal.
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pauldawes

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #28 on: 15:54:29, 09/11/17 »
Farmers should remove signs when the bull isn't present but certain bull breeds under certain conditions can be in fields where there is public access.


As for the other sign that could be deemed to be threatening and an attempt to stop folks using the ROW.  I'd report it to your local council or whoever in your area is responsible for maintaining ROWs.  If I can find it I'll post a link about this as signage like that is, I think, illegal.


Cheers. I was thinking about contacting local rights of way officer..I have done a few times before on slightly more vexing problems.


The “idea” of the bull actually being in the field didn’t bother..as I know it’s perfectly okay to put one of appropriate breed (and temperament!) in a field with a footpath as you say.


It was more the design of the sign which seemed aimed at intimidating/ warning people away. It wasn’t calculated (I suspect) to give re-assurance that the bull concerned was in fact “safe”. A suspicion that was strengthened by fact that sign was there with bull completely absent.
« Last Edit: 15:57:31, 09/11/17 by pauldawes »

Mel

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #29 on: 21:08:01, 09/11/17 »
The sign in the farmyard could be to warn of farm machinery which might be moving about if it is a working farm.  Granted, a clumsily worded sign.  A sign of some sort might need to be displayed for their insurance purposes.
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