Author Topic: Overgrown public footpath  (Read 1440 times)

Andies

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #30 on: 14:36:28, 10/11/17 »

English Nature suggested that 10% of our access network could have been lost to lostways but a more imaginative view of lostways could well show a far greater gain to our access network.



My own very minor research in villages near me suggests a far higher level of loss than 10%. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50% but I don't think we will ever know  :-X

barewirewalker

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #31 on: 19:27:37, 10/11/17 »
I think little research was done. It is probable that EN took a stab in the dark, if I were still on a LAF and Shrewsbury, just becoming a new University town, I would be asking if the county council should be suggesting introducing detailed study on this subject and the economic influences that might be discovered from such a study.


Shropshire is a prime example; The county chose a internal circular route as its flagship way, was this because the areas of absence rights of way made any other choice of routes impossible. Like an estate of 500 acres, without footpaths in will block and divert routes from reaching destinations of features, the whole county stops cross country routes from reaching destinations beyond it's boundaries. Does this cost the national economy revenue and can it be demonstrated by good academic investigation?
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histman

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #32 on: 12:56:31, 11/11/17 »

@PaulDawes

I live about 20 miles away from Langley Mill but don't know the route you took, however I do know the Rights of Way Inspector for Amber Valley who is excellent. His name is David Jenkinson, email: David.Jenkinson at derbyshire.gov.uk.
I would think that both the signs encountered were not legal. The HSE advice on signs for bulls in fields states that:

Quote
A suitable bull sign would be triangular with a yellow background and a black band around the outside. A bull or bull’s head should be shown (black on yellow) on the sign, with supplementary text (also black on yellow) such as ‘bull infield’ if desired. Supplementary text should not suggest that the bull is aggressive, threatening or dangerous (i.e. avoid words such as ‘beware’ or‘danger’).
As to Unrecorded Ways:

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English Nature suggested that 10% of our access network could have been lost to lost ways but a more imaginative view of lost ways could well show a far greater gain to our access network.
My researches in South Derbyshire and NW Leicestershire would put the figure around 10% but the County Councils here were pretty efficient in managing the process in the early 1950s and there were very active footpath preservation groups in both areas. Of course, there are still black holes where the chairman of the Parish Council or Meeting was the main landowner and ensured that the number of paths claimed was at the minimum for that parish.

I have seen evidence on other discussion boards that Suffolk County Council was particularly unhelpful in the claiming procedure.



pauldawes

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #33 on: 18:25:37, 11/11/17 »
@PaulDawes

I live about 20 miles away from Langley Mill but don't know the route you took, however I do know the Rights of Way Inspector for Amber Valley who is excellent. His name is David Jenkinson, email: David.Jenkinson at derbyshire.gov.uk.



Thanks for that.

Andies

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #34 on: 13:07:11, 13/11/17 »

I have seen evidence on other discussion boards that Suffolk County Council was particularly unhelpful in the claiming procedure.


That certainly seems to have been the case based on some of my research. Whilst looking into the ROW of one particular Suffolk village I have an interest in, I was told that Suffolk County Council had back in the 1950's actively encouraged Parish Councils to only record those ROW that they considered to be still used. Given that the make up of Parish Council's tended to be very much dominated by the landowning classes this I often lead to considerable corruption of the definitive map. Some, indeed many, areas of the village I am referring to are now devoid of any ROW.

An examination of ordnance survey maps of this village shows a considerable number of ROW that were almost certainly lost. Whilst clearly not conclusive evidence that a ROW existed, the nature of many of these suggests very strongly that they were ROW. Yes admittedly they will have fallen into comparative disuse, but as they never reached the definitive map, the corruption of this has facilitated their removal from potential future use. It is quite remarkable the effort landowners can put into blocking up these routes, repositioning field entrances, adding ditches etc... to remove indications of the lost routes, just in case someone should raise the issue. Equally they all seem to have very good memories of what and what hasn't happened for generations, and are always certain there was never a ROW not withstanding a footpath was marked on OS maps for 100 plus years ::)

The village I have looked in detail at has ROW that total about 6.2 miles, not much for a large village. My research points at possibly another 6.1 miles that never made it onto the definitive map. I fear most of these additional ROW never will  :(

Interestingly the recent neighbourhood plan questionnaires for this village have resulted in many comments on: the lack of ROW in the village; how those that do exist don't link up with each other, often resulting in dangerous road walking; and that many seem to serve no logical purpose on their own. Much of this must stem from the corruption of this villages' ROW on the definitive map. That said many nearby villages are in an even worse situation >:(

The difficulty is now to prove what has happened, evidence is often poor beyond OS maps, and of course virtually all those that once walked these routes are long gone. The process of re-establishing these ROW is not easy; and without organised support I suspect is beyond the capabilities of most individuals. I for one will keep walking these lostways, and encouraging others that are so mined, in the hope that some can be reclaimed  O0

sussamb

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #35 on: 14:19:23, 13/11/17 »
I for one will keep walking these lostways, and encouraging others that are so mined, in the hope that some can be reclaimed  O0

Good for you, I'd do the same.  Slightly different but I had a fight with my local council a few years ago over a footpath that had fallen into disuse, simply because the landowner had partitioned it up into fenced areas where horses were kept.  Stiles and signs had been removed, and an 'alternative path' signed around the whole thing, which was a considerably longer route.  Investigation showed that it was known about, and had been for many years, but the council had simply added it to a 'paths no longer accessible' list.  It took me issuing a threat of court action before the council acted, installing modern gates etc etc.  One of their objections to doing so was that they only had a limited budget, and opening that path would prevent other work being done.  I did point out that that argument was nonsense, as the landowner is responsible and should be made to pay.  Whether they ever did I don't know.
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Andies

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #36 on: 12:26:21, 14/11/17 »
Thanks sussamb, and well done to you O0

I am aware of a very similar situation to the one you describe. In this case a footpath crosses a field which is blocked by a number of fences used to sub-divide into paddocks for horses, some of which are electric fences.  All relevant waymarkers have disappeared, although I did find one in undergrowth, snapped off of course  ::)

I first raised the issue with SCC ROW Team back in August 2013. They said it would be dealt with re blocked access and signs replaced. Nothing happened so in 2014 I raised it again, nothing. I then contact the ROW directly in 2014 rather than the online reporting system. I was told the waymarkers had been replaced, but they agreed on inspection that they had disappeared, so they would be replaced again and concreted in; they never have. They also said that the blocked path was a long running dispute with the landowner and that it was now going to pushed up to the legal team to resolve the issue.

As of March 2017 everything remained the same as far as I could tell. I haven't gone back to Suffolk ROW Department as quite frankly they seem useless. As I have often referred to on this forum they say they will do something but usually don't do it, and if they do it takes for ever. I would try my other newer approach of going via the Parish Council, but I know that for this village the landowner is sits thereon, and as he owns almost the entire village nothing would be done I suspect   :(

I have also historically reported it to the Ramblers both locally (back in 2014) and again through their "pathwatch" online system in 2016. It would appear they have no influence in this case either.

If I hadn't been so obviously vocal on this issue, I would be minded to walk the route anyway and cut the fences if necessary. I don't want to damage things but given this has been an issue for many years it does make you quite angry  >:(


sussamb

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #37 on: 15:03:30, 14/11/17 »
You might want to follow the route (pardon the pun) here. It worked for me ...


http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/improve-the-path-network/how-to-get-an-obstruction-removed.aspx
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histman

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #38 on: 14:25:34, 15/11/17 »
This information on the Open Spaces Society website might help as well:


http://www.oss.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Annex-6B-Feb-13.pdf

sussamb

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Re: Overgrown public footpath
« Reply #39 on: 15:16:27, 15/11/17 »
That's Form 1 in the link I posted  ;)
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