Author Topic: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?  (Read 2547 times)

jimbob

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #15 on: 14:20:33, 09/01/18 »
BWW not sure I follow your arguments. There were more people living and earning a living in Rural UK in the 1950/1960s than there are now. In general Dog ownership in the UK is in decline according to RSPCA & Association of pet food manufacturers.

 There have always been irresponsible dog owners. Dogs left to roam, which has never been only the fault of "urban classes", cause far more damage to livestock in the UK than any other animals  inc. Humans).

As a former farm manager you would know this and yet you are shunting the argument against irresponsible dog ownership onto the CLA and their actions in respect to rights of way. I would argue your connection is very tenuous .

Dogs are a dangerous beast if not properly socialised and trained. Many farm dogs, gamekeepers dogs and hunting dogs are rarely , if ever socialised with humans, in general. Most are extremely territorial, and they would just as soon go for a CLA member as an ordinary hiker.

I am a country boy of the 50s and was born on a farm, my dad worked his whole life on farms, as did my brother, and indeed my first job was on a farm.

I think the OP did the right thing. He was not sure what to do so he retreated whilst keeping an eye out. He had enough worries at the time without adding another in the shape of one of your infamous CLA members bearing down on him.

There is little any person would do about walker trespass, it is a civil offence and would cost the plaintiff far more to persue in law  than  they would receive by way of compensation if no damage occurred. However a dog owner allowing a dog to roam freely is committing a criminal offence which the police do act upon. (Dog control orders can be issued under section 55 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005) They don't even need to be violent , just roaming around.
Too little, too late, too bad......

phil1960

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #16 on: 15:02:53, 09/01/18 »
I love my dog, heís a lovely natured  collie. I donít expect everyone else to love him, but should anyone harm him, then they need to be a fast runner. There again he is never unaccompanied, as for cats they kill too many garden birds for my liking  ::)
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Welsh Rambler

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #17 on: 16:50:38, 09/01/18 »
I normally carry a walking pole when walking on my own and find that just raising your arms and shouting will stop an aggressive dog advancing. If it doesn't deter the dog then the sharp end of the walking pole will. It's the irresponsible owners who watch the dog snarling at you and say 'he won't hurt you' that encourage me to want to prod the owner as well.


Regards Keith

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #18 on: 17:45:49, 09/01/18 »
The thing that annoys me the most, is those dog owners who fail to recognise when their pet is on the borderline or being vicious or aggressive.
Its mostly towards other dogs, but some dogs show aggression towards members of the public, and some owners either through ignorance, or not wanting to acknowledge the fact their loved pet is a problem.

I hate it when their only argument is "Their only Playing with You" when its clearly obvious there's aggression being shown.

Dogs have an acute awareness that some people show genuine fear in their presence, some act on those instincts, but thankfully the majority of them are placid.

phil1960

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #19 on: 18:24:18, 09/01/18 »
I find some people are particularly unpleasant, especially unaccompanied  ;)
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Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #20 on: 18:27:39, 09/01/18 »
Ive nothing personal against any dog owner, except that ive had quite a few scary experiences with dogs, mostly when i was young.
Like ive said, i much prefer the company of cats.

phil1960

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #21 on: 18:39:15, 09/01/18 »
Enjoy your cat(s), mine was just a general comment not aimed at any cat owner, might I suggest a bell though  :)
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tom83

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #22 on: 21:26:25, 09/01/18 »
I hate irresponsible dog owners, especially ones who have no control over their dogs. Dogs are pack animals, and require discipline from a leader, be that another dog or a human being. Without discipline, they see themselves as the leader and do as they please. The amount of people who don't understand this though.


I love dogs, all dogs, I have a chocolate lab and a Dogue de Bordeaux, and they both know who is boss, even at 10st, the Bordeaux is scared of a raised voice from myself or my wife.


From personal experience Ive found that dog walkers who walk their dogs out in the countryside, generally have better behaved dogs. As opposed to people who don't bother, or take them 5 minutes around the block.


Im very much in favour of the introduction of dog licenses. If you want to own a dog, you have to apply for a license, your dog must be chipped, and if you walk your dog, you have to have your license on you during the walk. If your dog is aggressive towards a person or another dog, this could cause you to lose your dog license and without a license, your dog.

barewirewalker

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #23 on: 12:08:49, 10/01/18 »
BWW not sure I follow your arguments.


Understandable as their are a few loose threads in my post, perhaps written more from a flippant point, but with a serious undertone. Perhaps not the place to go too deep, but those pondering the OP's query might see the connections.



As someone who has been a member of a LAF for 5 years;
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As a former farm manager you would know this and yet you are shunting the argument against irresponsible dog ownership onto the CLA and their actions in respect to rights of way. I would argue your connection is very tenuous .


This link is not as tenuous as you might think and IMO has significant historic and current connections to the motives that have and might affect the development of our access network.


As a former LAF member I know how difficult it is to keep the minds of a mixed group on the interests of walking and access, when their has been a 'dog' incident, and the landowners are milking this public opinion to full effect.


"Oh you walkers don't know the damage a dog can to livestock" is a sneer towards the my stance for access not to be linked to public misbehaviour.


Yet I have to meet that person who has, spent several days doing close to major surgery on injured animals, spent months nursing a flock of pedigree sheep back to full productivity and then been reminded of their injuries every year for more than a decade as I sheered my ewes and followed the scars across their bodies.


Neighborhood ownership of dogs kept, to give property owners reassurance in the hours of their absence, was the cause of the incident I referred too. 3 Alsatians on the loose at night time.


Also a friend of mine was accused of having allowed his aged Alsatian and terrier to roam and kill three sheep. His family suffered the loss of their pets, the insurance loss and the villages condemnation for 5years until it became known that farmers own dogs had killed his sheep and the farmer had sneaked into the village and opened the gate to my friend back yard.
So that he had a valid claim on his insurance for the loss of the sheep.

« Last Edit: 17:11:30, 10/01/18 by barewirewalker »
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

RogerA

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #24 on: 13:01:34, 10/01/18 »
I'm so sorry ... I didnt mean to start a debate ... I was only asking whether there was a better course of action I should have taken when faced with several unaccompanied dogs running toward me across a field barking.

I think if it happens again (and I hope it dosent) I'll probably do the same - turn and walk swiftly away.
It is however unsettling to hear that it seems not uncommon to have problems with dogs.

I'm hoping that if they're being territorial and just defending their farm or whatever then moving away gives them what they want and they'll leave me alone. My worry was that by turning and moving away I'd be giving them something to chase, or acting in a subservient way to a pack leader and might be putting myself at more risk ... who knows.

My secondary question as to whether I should report the incident - I guess I probably should but wont. What would be the nature of the complaint anyway - I saw some dogs and they barked at me - it sounds pathetic and dosent reflect the real fear they caused.

jimbob

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #25 on: 13:05:11, 10/01/18 »
Well at least you show that loose dogs are a danger. The wherefors and whatsits of ownership do not take away from the fact that it was dogs that did the actual damage. In some hill farms that damage could over a number of years make rearing uneconomic.  Also loose dogs worry walkers as can be seen in this topic.By worry I mean the anguish type of worry rather than the physical.

They worry walkers just as much on legitimate well proven rights of way at least as much on those you tirelessly fight for.
Too little, too late, too bad......

jimbob

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #26 on: 13:19:01, 10/01/18 »
RogerA I believe you did the right thing on that occasion.  Discretion  is always the better part of valour.
On a flippant note maybe the sausages could be carried so that they can be used tactically  as a distraction .
Loose unsociable dogs do worry me a lot.  More than cattle , a lot less than loose ponies and horses. Never yet been chased by a cat!

Too little, too late, too bad......

RogerA

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #27 on: 13:30:41, 10/01/18 »
cats? my neighbours cat was seen chasing & herding cows in the field behind our houses last week ... go figure

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #28 on: 13:47:01, 10/01/18 »
You only have to pay a visit, to a large car scrapping business, to see how dangerous some dogs can be.
I remember visiting one in West Wales, many years ago, the two Alsatian dogs locked in a back room of the premises, sounded terrifying, and no doubt, were there to protect the premises.

Large dogs, in particular, scare me, they can sense a persons fear, and some use it to their advantage.

Thankfully the vast majority of dogs, are well behaved and well looked after by their owners, but as we all know, some are far more dangerous than others.

Owen

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Re: Dogs - how to deal with unaccompanied dogs?
« Reply #29 on: 15:09:41, 10/01/18 »
You only have to pay a visit, to a large car scrapping business, to see how dangerous some dogs can be.


I remember back in the early nineties going to a scrappies in Birmingham to pick up 25 tonnes of scrap. His huge Rottweiler was straining on his chain snarling and barking like mad at me. I said something like "shut up you silly be**er" and he rolled onto his back so I could tickle his tummy. 


I used to go there quite often and he always remembered me.