Author Topic: I've bought myself a Bivi!  (Read 1179 times)

pilgrimgp7

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Re: I've bought myself a Bivi!
« Reply #15 on: 18:24:13, 09/02/18 »

What is the point? Versatility not usually required by a thoroughbred walker.


I have total respect for you folk who do the multiday or week walks, i think it's really amazing in a fat modern world of people obsessed by cars, television & being lazy. I think what you do takes much dedication not only to putting the miles in but also planning & packing & carrying stuff & all the rest of it but specifically the TIMETABLE. I've met the LDW gang loads of times & when they are on a walk they've been planning for a year or so i know that keeping to the timetable is of paramount importance which i understand but doesn't apply to me as i don't do specific long distance stuff but i doff my cap to all of you who do & i love reading peoples stories of their journey. Amazing.


I'm a potterer abouter with a camera & about 15 miles does me but i'm happiest on 10 miles with a good ascent & descent. I also walk through the night & in really bad weather on purpose so i love British winters & because i'm not specifically a walker & do other things as well i can cater to different circumstances than a thoroughbred walker who just needs a sub 1.2 kilo lightweight 1 man tent could do.


I'm just giving my version of what's the point? to somebody or anybody who may use a tarp for wild camping on the odd occasion rather than a tent which i do understand won't be of interest to any long distance walkers & i do respect the fact it is a walking forum so to be relevant i will post a list of kit i use with individual weights to give me the ability to use a sleeping arrangement as simple or versatile as you like.


Which a tent doesn't do. Which is the point.


Simple sleeping arrangement. 4 season. 600 metre altitude plus. Bivvyology.


1 x Dragon's Egg bivvy bag. With added heat reflection. 1683 grams.
1 x Rab Ascent 700 sleeping bag. 1723 grams.


Sleep on the floor anywhere, anytime, any season. Below about -2 or -3 degrees i do lie face down with the sleeping bag hood totally enclosing my face or my face is too cold but apart from that i'm fine.




More complicated transportable walled room. 4 season. Tarpology.
 To construct yourself a 3 x 3 metre flat roof dwelling place with vertical 1.30 metre walls.


3m x 3m army surplus stretcher basha load bearing. 960 grams.
4m x 1.30m Vango nitro 200+ ultralight tent footprint. 265 grams x 2= 530 grams.
1m x 1.30 tarpaulin. 120 grams x 4 = 480 grams.
Micro Vario walking poles. 224 grams x2 = 448 grams.
Trailpro walking poles. 273 grams x2 = 546 grams.
various slings, guy ropes, cable ties etc. 753 grams.


For just under 3 kilos i can build a 3 metre square room that has 1.30 metres high vertical walls & i don't build it very often & i don't always carry the 3 kilos of equipment to build the 3 metre square room with vertical walls. But i can do if i need to. That is the point.




Using the bivvy bag 1683 grams with the sleeping bag 1723 grams & the load bearing stretcher basha 960 grams & the following additional equipment i can raise myself & the whole sleeping platform slung like a hammock 3 stories vertically into the air. Which i don't always need to do. But i can when i need to. That is the point. Being more versatile as a humble potterer abouter.




Suspended sleeping system. 4 season.


40 metres semi-static abseiling rope. 2317 grams.
Jag double twin pulley 120 grams x 3 = 360 grams.
jag double twin progress capture pulley. 145 grams.
Ratchet straps. 209 grams x2 = 418 grams.


Which i fully understand no walker is going to be remotely interested in but if any of you are wild campers you might be.


The point for your thoroughbred LDW'er is the timetable from my perspective as a humble potterer abouter, you guys have to be 100% on the ball with all of it & it all has to fit together so you finish at the time you have allotted so ropes & pulleys are totally irrelevant but i can suspend a 3 metre square floor off 3 lengths of rope & light a real coal fire from the 110 gram ovals of Welsh Anthracite that i carry if i'm making an open fire. 10 metres up in the air.


If you are canoeing for example & the river becomes in flood you have the ability to not only raise yourself but also all your gear off the floor, should any trees be suitable.


My answer gunwharfman is keep guessing because you aren't doing anything wrong regarding working out tarps & bivvys so you are guessing correctly however it may not fit with the thoroughbred walkers perspective as i am sure my post will not do but i'm just showing what the point is. Completely as you said, versatility, but it doesn't apply to somebody who regards it as weight ineffective, which it can be, hence, what is the point?


To run it on it's bare bones, you don't need a tent or a tarp. You need a 4 season bivvy & 4 season sleeping bag & just get your head down. Totally 100% warm. I used to love tents but i now think they are a bit of a scam. 500 quid for a tent? My basha was 30 quid brand new unused in an army surplus store but horses for courses.


With a load bearing tarp you can do many things whereas a tent is always just a tent.










jimbob

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Re: I've bought myself a Bivi!
« Reply #16 on: 23:03:50, 09/02/18 »
Crikey pilgrim gpx , whatever permutation of gear you carry you must need quite a large knapsack.  What do you use? What does  that weigh?

My belief is that my knees, hips and back deserve the absolute lightest weight  that I can afford. If that means going for a single compromise set of gear to cover many eventualities then so be it. I may then be able to walk for many more years than if I wrecked my joints.
Too little, too late, too bad......

fernman

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Re: I've bought myself a Bivi!
« Reply #17 on: 11:04:27, 10/02/18 »
Thanks, jimbob, for saving me saying something along those lines.
My earlier point, if it wasn't obvious enough, was that given the option of a versatile arrangement of shelters at 2kg or a tent at 1.5kg that would be quite sufficient, I would go for the lighter choice every time.

pilgrimgp7

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Re: I've bought myself a Bivi!
« Reply #18 on: 11:26:03, 10/02/18 »

Crikey pilgrim gpx , whatever permutation of gear you carry you must need quite a large knapsack.  What do you use? What does  that weigh?

My belief is that my knees, hips and back deserve the absolute lightest weight  that I can afford. If that means going for a single compromise set of gear to cover many eventualities then so be it. I may then be able to walk for many more years than if I wrecked my joints.


Ay up Jimbob, happy wanderings to you & thanks for the comment.


I'm partially crippled & although I can do a very good impression of being 100% able bodied my knees, hips & back also deserve the lightest weight I can afford too. I crushed my right thigh in an in an accident at the end of the 1990's & severed the main muscle in the front of the thigh so I have extremely limited to non existent function in the main muscle in one of my legs. As a result of that the hip flexor & smaller muscles in the quadriceps compensate but they only do it for so long before becoming overloaded & the hip flexor especially gives out to the point the hip flexor muscle group will not flex at all meaning I cannot take a step further.


That happens on about 10 miles hill walking, 20-25 miles cycling & after about 4 miles running but I can do all of those things to those distances & it isn't a time factor, it's a repetition factor in that I can walk for 24 hours a day but when I've taken a certain amount of paces the hip flexor which has being doing the job of the main quadriceps muscle needs a rest because otherwise I have drag my leg behind me as I cannot get it to physically flex at the hip to make the movement to step in front.


Considering this factor jimbob which for me I do consider as a factor rather than a disability I have to be more aware of distance than weight because carrying weight actually engages the remaing smaller muscles in the quad more than walking weight free so it's better for me in the sense that I can probably eke out another 3 or 4 miles carrying between 10 or 20 kilos which sounds paradoxical I know but that's the way it is for me.


The stuff isn't heavy heavy, yes there's some weight in but parts of it are large volume & lightweight & I've spent all the time I need to doing exactly what gunwharfman did putting his bivvy up in his garden except I've done it so I know all the weights of all the tarp materials per square metre, the weight of every single individual item & how to make it the most versatile so each bit does more than one job, which is the point, which is what a tent doesn't do.


If you don't weigh it, you don't know it, simple as that & I learnt that lesson the heavy way with my favourite pegs.


Beautiful pegs. the most beautiful lovely pegs I've ever seen. They are rock pegs & I don't need rock pegs particularly but the 12 inch rock peg is also a steel marlin spike which if you use ropes at all or are a mariner, you will know how useful a marlin spike is. Very very useful. My pegs are that solid I sharpen them on a whetstone into a literal spike point jimbob.


Amazing pegs. The best pegs. Beautiful pegs.


Not at 55 grams a peg they aren't. At 55 grams a peg they are deserving of the question, what is the point? Completely irrelevant. What do I need 12 inch rock pegs for that weigh 55 grams each? I don't.


That is how I learned to weigh every single thing. Very upsetting for me but I had to take the decision to leave my rock pegs at home. 5 rock pegs x 55 grams is 275 grams which is quarter of a kilo which is half of 1 lb. Batshit crazy carrying that around, excuse my French but you're stopping at home pegs. You aren't coming out again.


That was me thinking aloud jimbob when I looked at the scale & then did the simple maths. I'm carrying around over 250 grams/quarter of a kilo extra because I like a particular peg? No chance.
That was it, I weighed absolutely every single thing & eventually it falls into place & all the calculating pays off & it's in daft little things that you don't notice that all adds up to 5, 6 7 or more kilos of stuff that can be made lighter. I don't mean latest titanium cooking pot light I mean daft things that you'd never think about until you weigh them.


I didn't know what the point was either but I knew there was a point & that point involves cubic metres of available dwelling space & square metres of tarpaulin. Up to 36 cubic metres of internal space you need more square meters of tarp than you will be able to construct cubic meterage of internal living space. You're on the back foot regarding weight carried contrasted with how much area does it cover. If you can be bothered to sit round & work the figures out you then find out the weight carried contrasted with effectiveness ratio of the square meterage of the tarp becomes exponentially favourable immediately at 36 cubic metres of living area. Basically you now need less square metres than you can make cubic metres. If you can be bothered to carry 36 cubic metres of tarp about, or more, you then have the facility & ability to construct a really big living area out of a relatively small amount of tarpaulin.


Very very boring for a long distance walker I know.


Long distance walkers also aren't massively into open fires by which I mean an enclosed open fire in its own hearth. If you take the infinitely versatile & durable Kelly Kettle & use the steel fire base as a portable hearth that weighs in at 209 grams & if you go to wilko for a fiver you can get a stainless steel chimney pot type which fits it exactly. The chimney pot weighs 83 grams so whole fireplace is 292 grams. I have a flat pack box made of heat reflective fire resistant hard back foil which the hearth sits in & 1 oval of Welsh anthracite at 110 grams will burn for over 12 hours if you nurture it. Real fire like your grandfathers fathers used. Poortable radiator jimbob that weighs under 300 grams & 1 piece of coal will burn all day. 15 hours plus if you treat it right. How long does gaz last? What's the point? I can start & keep a fire going from petrol vapour. Not petrol, petrol, the vapour of petrol. What's the point in gaz? What's the point? Not very versatile is it.


To just finish it off jimbob to answer your initial question I can fit everything into a 90 litre backpack with another 25 litres on my front that I need to keep me going on foot for months probably running things at a weight load of 25 kilos. That's carrying the whole lot, ropes, pulleys, tarps & basha, poles, coal or wood & various whatever other equipment. To go for years which you can do completely out there away from the structures of the modern world I can carry 3 years of supplies on a 17ft canoe coming in at about 450 kilos. That's 100 kilos of coal & 100 kilos of lentils, beans, barley, spelt, herbs & spices, 60 litres of petrol, 4 110 amp hour batteries & a wind turbine. Separate to personal clothing & bits & pieces.


That's the end conclusion jimbob of me weighing everything. The modern world is a con in most respects in most areas. In 25 kilos of 110 gram coal ovals you get 227 ovals. Just under 1 oval nutured carefully in a properly constructed firebox with provide you with real heat & fire for your whole waking hours. In the 908 ovals in 100 kilos of coal there is adequate provision for one person to have real fire, real heat, for every waking hour.


What's the point. The point is, I can live for years on absolutely no financial cost because I weigh everything down to the very piece of coal.


The point is. If it all got switched off today, electricity, gas, water, the whole shebang. I am absolutely fine thankyou very much indeed while the world runs round screaming.


Hopefully that gives you an overview jimbob ok mate. I'm a cripple that can't walk further than 10 miles without developing a walking style similar to Quasimodo so the brief answer is no it isn't very heavy & I can carry months of supplies in 90 litres & 25 litres. I can exist independently of the world & the shopping system on just under 110 grams of coal a day & the only reason I know all that is because one day I had to leave my favourite pegs at home after discovering I was carrying around weight I didn't need. I took it to the full extent & worked out the weight of & bought everything I need to live for 3 years in the country.


I didn't intend working all that stuff out or writing for so long but I did the same process initially. Put things up & took them down again to see how it worked & what could be improved while people asked me what the point was.














pilgrimgp7

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Re: I've bought myself a Bivi!
« Reply #19 on: 12:24:22, 10/02/18 »

Thanks, jimbob, for saving me saying something along those lines.
My earlier point, if it wasn't obvious enough, was that given the option of a versatile arrangement of shelters at 2kg or a tent at 1.5kg that would be quite sufficient, I would go for the lighter choice every time.


Very obvious. Very simplistic. I didn't miss the obviousness of your point whatsoever & although I realise it may read differently. I concur. I totally agree with you.


I would go for the lighter option every time the same way. I'm in total agreement. I understood your point, it was & still is very obvious & I agree with you wholeheartedly I was just posting some various things that it is possible to do with a bit of tarp hopefully in an informational way.


Every gram counts. The lightest option is the best option.


Hopefully that is obvious enough & somebody won't have to add anything along the same lines to make it more obvious for you.


Not that i'm remotely implying it isn't obvious for you.


I'm saying maybe I didn't make it obvious enough.


Just saying.


Obviously.