Author Topic: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry  (Read 3585 times)

ninthace

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #15 on: 22:02:50, 21/03/18 »
Iím surprised the kit list doesnít include a self-righting mechanism.  :)
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harland

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #16 on: 22:09:28, 21/03/18 »
I don't know what my very uncomfortable old style rucksack with all the weight on my shoulders and contents weighed when I did my gold DofE in the 1960s but it definitely wouldn't have been in kilogrammes! 

As for water I don't remember carrying any but we did carry cans of Top Deck Shandy!  I know things are different nowadays, and for very good reason, but we had to stay away from all civilisation for 3 days when walking for 50 miles around Dartmoor. 

However I do feel that the total bronze, silver and gold award DofE programme was a very good preparation for my later life.  It is a pity that many do not go all the way to receive their gold award; I know that for my parents to go to Buckingham Palace to see me receive the award was one of the highlights of their life. 

It was the walking I did through the scouts and the DofE that brought me back to walking later in life.  Without those experiences in my youth I don't know whether I would have ever started walking the LDPs with the navigational skills required.  I always interviewed any youngster who applied for a job who had completed the gold award as they had shown commitment and perseverance that could help them in their future career.

RogerA

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #17 on: 09:48:55, 22/03/18 »
Thanks for the advice and comment all.

heh Top Deck Shandy  :D I remember that well.

You may be right but I'm not sure telling my daughter that shes not supposed to enjoy it, she should suffer and it should be painful is the most positive message I could give her  :) ... but then perhaps one to save up for for a rainy day.

Very interesting comment on the reducing size and increased neatness of pack size as you progress from bronze through to gold.
I'd seen the DoE kit list before ... it reminded me of a kit list I was given for a guided walk in Snowdonia last year, which I duly made sure I had, only to have the instructor go through each of our packs and take half of each out as not needed. I was therefore more treating it as things you might want to think about rather than gospel requirement.

I think definately a chat with the teacher and a trial walk are in order.

Thanks again guys!

April

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #18 on: 13:31:59, 22/03/18 »
If they are being expected to carry 20kg, it is no wonder they all look fed up! Yes a chat with the teacher is a good idea Roger, packs should not be that heavy!
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Ridge

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #19 on: 14:37:15, 22/03/18 »
1 odd thing about the DofE which I discovered with my own kids and have witnessed in the hills. They don't have to walk a set distance ythey have to walk for a set time, but they HAVE to be at the check points at a predetermined time. All this does is encourage you to over estimate how long it will take them to walk between check points so DofEers can spend a lot of time loitering about killing time so as not to get to their check points too early.
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jimbob

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #20 on: 14:45:22, 22/03/18 »
I have only  twice passed DOE checkpoints and at each of them there was lots of water available. In fact I went up Jacobs ladder once with  leader who was only carrying water and boy was he weighed down. He still flew ahead of me at the top, since even with about one quarter of his carried weight on my back I was as usual, quite slow.
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c.bede

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #21 on: 14:24:12, 16/04/18 »

As a DofE Gold assessor myself, and the manager of a Licensed DofE centre, I would agree that 20Kg is excessive.  My own bag for my ML assessment was only 18k and that included 30m of rope and a helmet!  OK, there was some lightweight kit, but there was an awful lot of "just in case" stuff too, which adds up!
Our own gold candidates generally end up with a bag somewhere around 11-14kg after some real trimming down.  Careful choice of food can save an awful lot of weight and bulk.


Now - the water issue.  Any centre/assessor/supervisor which restricts the amount of water carried is, in my mind negligent.  Yes, it adds to weight and bulk, but is arguably one of the most important things carried.  I have heard of assessors and supervisors pouring excess water away, and this was in a 30 degree heatwave last summer.  I have no problem replenishing candidates water supplies in hot weather, nor if they have run completely dry would I have a major problem with them buying emergency water in a shop (as long as they didn't come out with a 3 course dinner!).  Yes, the 20 conditions of DofE stand, but most important is the care and welfare of the young people in our charge.  It is after all a Gold DofE award, not SAS selection, though unfortunately I have met too many assessors in my time who seem to consider it the latter!


The experience should be enjoyable - it is tough, mentally and physically, but I find that good navigation training and the ability to look after each other helps keep the majority of the misery at bay. 

midweekmountain

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #22 on: 19:54:18, 16/04/18 »
I have done a lot of work with Gold DofE groups, IMHO much depends on the experience of the group leaders and how they guide the youngsters/parents to purchase/aquire cost effective kit.

One of my roles was to scrutinise the packs a couple of days prior to the exped took place this ensured they had the right kit OR if there is a problem you still have time to put it right.

When you look at the recommended group gear for DofE it seems excessive BUT a scrutiniser can help by trimming it to a safe minimum then share items amongst the group (normally 4-6 persons) the secret is to balance loads between the group.




If the group leader is a (F)uckwit, and I have come across some, you will have problems.

c.bede

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #23 on: 08:23:54, 18/04/18 »

Absolutely correct.....  Group kit should be shared - things like emergency shelters can be left as they have a tent - a flysheet performs exactly the same function!


sussamb

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #24 on: 09:00:10, 18/04/18 »
Things like emergency shelters can be left as they have a tent - a flysheet performs exactly the same function!


Actually it doesn't ... If you've ever tried one against the other an emergency shelter gets you out of the wind and warm very quickly without any need to find a suitable spot to pitch a flysheet, which at best just keeps rain and some wind off you.
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tonyk

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #25 on: 10:01:50, 18/04/18 »
 Apart from wind a flysheet won't keep out spindrift.There is also the problem of anchoring it in a gale as the wind gets underneath.Its each tool for the job and a flysheet is part of a tent rather than an emergency shelter.I have used a flysheet to sit out storms but it has just been put over my head to keep the rain off rather than pitched with pegs.Once hypothermia sets in people get confused and trying to pitch a flysheet might be too much for them.

 I do have to question why you would consider using a flysheet as an emergency shelter when you have a tent?

c.bede

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #26 on: 10:19:22, 18/04/18 »

I wasn't suggesting the use of a flysheet for anything more than a very short term shelter - anything longer term and you would of course pitch the tent which then provides stability and warmth with the ability to get into sleeping bags etc.  Our tents are inner pitch first, geodesic ones and the flysheet is pretty much the same shape as the emergency shelters our supervisors carry.  Sitting on the edges of the thing to hold it down does work, no need for pegs or poles - granted it's not as good as an emergency shelter, and longer term the tent would be erected.


Take your point about spindrift - that does get everywhere, but hopefully DofE groups should plan not to be in such conditions, and supervisors/assessors should ensure that wherever possible, they are not.

sussamb

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #27 on: 10:23:38, 18/04/18 »
Surely that's why you carry an emergency shelter ... for when you are caught out  O0
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c.bede

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #28 on: 11:32:01, 18/04/18 »

Absolutely, but the point was about how to cut down on weight/bulk and be adaptable enough to repurpose the kit you have when required - eg using gas powered hair straighteners as a heater!!  O0 ;D


sussamb

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Re: Duke of Edinburgh - Weight to Carry
« Reply #29 on: 11:51:44, 18/04/18 »
Well one I wouldn't chuck out would be the emergency shelter  O0
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