Author Topic: Vandals at Ladybower  (Read 596 times)

redeye

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Vandals at Ladybower
« on: 12:14:17, 25/11/18 »

I suppose after all the publicity this was bound to happen. It shouldn't but the nature of some people in today's society, is it a surprise :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-46316985?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR3NgAacokwFVKwdDQnseWYRVSnHdMmvGcdMZKA0Yl8L_wEN25u3pKPe43I

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #1 on: 14:28:19, 25/11/18 »
I sometimes despair at humanity >:(

rural roamer

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #2 on: 16:53:47, 25/11/18 »
I just read this and was going to post the link on here but saw you beat me to it. Why would people go to the trouble of visiting it and then vandalising it?

Dyffryn Ardudwy

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #3 on: 17:06:27, 25/11/18 »
Treweryn, outside Bala,  was also revealed during the very long dry summer of this year.
A considerable number of visitors arrived to see the highly controversial village mysteriously reappear, but nobody wanted to vandalise it, just pay their respects, and it even made the Welsh news, where Cadw, the Welsh ancient Monuments body, gave their thoughts on its reemergence, after over fifty years under the waters feeding the mouths of Liverpool.

I suppose the ruins at Ladybower reservoir in the Derwent Valley, are just seen as a ruin, and free picking, with no thought or reverence shown, that these ruins were once somebodies home, and they were forcibly removed from a dwelling, that may have been in a family for generations.

Its just a horrid sign of the times, when no thought is given to a ruin, some people will just cause mindless vandalism, without knowing or possibly caring.

Slightly off the point, but last month, mindless vandals decided to decorate Pentre Ivan burial chamber in Pembroke, with their own Banksy styled drawings.

Its a pile of stones, Who cares, Some of us do.

barewirewalker

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #4 on: 11:06:47, 26/11/18 »
I suppose grabbing a conveniently loose stone and seeing it splosh in the mud is a childishly fun thing to do. I remember throwing stones into ponds, great fun seeing the splash until I got a clip around the ear, for throwing a stone into my grandfather's new fish pond he had bought at the flower show, I had to go in and fetch it out.
A lot of people do not realise that the countryside is ours, we are collectively responsible for it, I suppose this is understandable, when we set so much importance on ownership, it encourages some to trash what can, when they can.
When society stops admiring the flaunting of wealth and starts to recognise what it truly owns, then perhaps more would value it. Perhaps the PDNPA should have put up a notice. "Private Land trespassers will be prosecuted".


BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Maggot

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #5 on: 22:14:28, 26/11/18 »
Possibly, it could be argued, that the greater act of vandalism was the forced removal of hundreds of people from their homes and flooding the area to form a reservoir with little compensation and thought for the people affected?


ninthace

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #6 on: 01:11:12, 27/11/18 »
Possibly, it could be argued, that the greater act of vandalism was the forced removal of hundreds of people from their homes and flooding the area to form a reservoir with little compensation and thought for the people affected?
As a matter of interest, what are your sources for your claim that 100s of people were forcibly removed with little compensation or thought?  I couldn’t find anything to substantiate it on the internet.
Solvitur Ambulando

Maggot

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #7 on: 07:35:09, 27/11/18 »
As a matter of interest, what are your sources for your claim that 100s of people were forcibly removed with little compensation or thought?  I couldn’t find anything to substantiate it on the internet.


The following places were flooded to build the reservoir......


Abbey Farm Ashop
Abbey Grange
Ashopton hamlet
Bamford House
Bellhag Farm
Bank Top Farm
Bridge End Farm
Birchinlee
Cockbridge Farm
Hancock Farm
Derwent hamlet
Hollin Clough
Dryclough
Ridge Farm
Elmin Pitts Farm
Ronksley
Fairholmes Farm
Shireowlers
Grainfoot Cottage
Walker’s Farm
Grainfoot Farm
Grimbocar
Haglee Farm
Howden House
Jack End
Lee End
Nether Ashop
Parkinfield
Riding House
Tinker’s House
Underbank
Water House
Wellhead Farm
Wood End
Wood Houses
Wood Lane
Wood’s Farm

The residents were compelled to relocate, some to a village which overlooked the site where they were actually able to watch the demolition of their communities and live close to the people who were building the reservoir, it was called Tin Town and has since been demolished.

Imagine that happening today, people are up in arms about a railway line.Have a look at 'Silent Valley' and 'Silent Valley revisited' by Vic Hallam (I think) for a start.
« Last Edit: 07:40:27, 27/11/18 by Maggot »

ninthace

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #8 on: 10:27:24, 27/11/18 »
I am aware of the places affected as I found the same source but you mentioned 100s of people being forcibly removed but most of the places on the list are single dwellings and the population of Ashopton was less than 100 - do you have a figure for those affected? There is a world of difference between being compulsorily relocated and being forcibly removed without compensation or thought. Even the dead were removed and reburied so that relatives could still visit graves. I know there was “strong opposition” to the building of the reservoir but you paint a more aggressive  picture of actions by the authorities and I wondered about your source. Remember people were more amenable to authority in those days. I could find no mention of forceable relocation in http://turnock.com/index.php/2015/12/14/lost-villages-of-derwent-and-ashopton/


Tin Town that you mention was built between 1902 and 1916 for the construction of the Derwent and Howden dams so had been part of the community for some time before Ladybower was started 1935.
Solvitur Ambulando

Maggot

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #9 on: 17:28:59, 27/11/18 »
I am aware of the places affected as I found the same source but you mentioned 100s of people being forcibly removed but most of the places on the list are single dwellings and the population of Ashopton was less than 100 - do you have a figure for those affected? There is a world of difference between being compulsorily relocated and being forcibly removed without compensation or thought. Even the dead were removed and reburied so that relatives could still visit graves. I know there was “strong opposition” to the building of the reservoir but you paint a more aggressive  picture of actions by the authorities and I wondered about your source. Remember people were more amenable to authority in those days. I could find no mention of forceable relocation in http://turnock.com/index.php/2015/12/14/lost-villages-of-derwent-and-ashopton/


Tin Town that you mention was built between 1902 and 1916 for the construction of the Derwent and Howden dams so had been part of the community for some time before Ladybower was started 1935.


Jeeeezus, were they given a choice?


A) Yes, they were offered the choice to stay and the reservoir shelved
B) No, they were told to move because they were flooding it all anyway


I'll give you a clue, it's not A.  So they were compelled to move, but hey bicker over a couple of words as that as it means you don't have to consider the fact that actually the bigger act of vandalism was the removal of the villages and villagers and not someone writing their name on something that spends all but a couple of weeks underwater for decades on end.


ninthace

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #10 on: 18:33:40, 27/11/18 »

I wasn't arguing that the construction of the reservoir was regrettable and could be indeed be construed as an act of vandalism as in the definition: "any activity that is considered to be damaging or destroying something that was good". I was intrigued by your description of the process which sounded like something out of Nazi Germany and if true would have been a national scandal.  I am thinking of phrases like "forced removal of hundreds of people", "little compensation and thought for the people".
What should have happened was a legal process whereby property was compulsorily purchased and people displaced in support an infrastructure project.  How much compensation would have been given I have not been able to find out.  These days it can be quite a lot.  No they didn't get a choice once the decision was made but normally in these circumstances there is a planning process and a public enquiry with representations from those affected before the decision is made.  I doubt if such an expensive project was embarked upon unless it was needed.  Given that the country needs water storage and will need more in the future - how would you go about it without drowning valleys and displacing people?
Solvitur Ambulando

Maggot

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #11 on: 16:04:31, 28/11/18 »
I wasn't arguing that the construction of the reservoir was regrettable and could be indeed be construed as an act of vandalism as in the definition: "any activity that is considered to be damaging or destroying something that was good". I was intrigued by your description of the process which sounded like something out of Nazi Germany and if true would have been a national scandal.  I am thinking of phrases like "forced removal of hundreds of people", "little compensation and thought for the people".
What should have happened was a legal process whereby property was compulsorily purchased and people displaced in support an infrastructure project.  How much compensation would have been given I have not been able to find out.  These days it can be quite a lot.  No they didn't get a choice once the decision was made but normally in these circumstances there is a planning process and a public enquiry with representations from those affected before the decision is made.  I doubt if such an expensive project was embarked upon unless it was needed.  Given that the country needs water storage and will need more in the future - how would you go about it without drowning valleys and displacing people?


Well it's funny you should say that, as in Cheddar, Bristol Water have just gone through a consultation to build a second reservoir, next to and below the one we already have.  The arguments against were huge, protest meetings and all sorts.  The land highlighted was agricultural and would have displaced no-one.  They even put in a proposal to have a beach area, like they often do on the continent.  But 2 people complained about that, so they scrapped that bit.  In fact they have scrapped it all, so Bristolians are going to have to get used to bottled water!


Building reservoirs may be a necessary evil, but I reckon if someone suggested flooding a lakeland valley or a few hamlets in the Brecons or a village or two in the Cotswolds, then lots of people on here would be crying 'Vandalism, how could they?'  Strangely though, now they have done just that, and someone has written their name on a building that no-one will see for 50 years, we have cries of 'Vandalism, how could they?'


I just find the response a bit peculiar, that's all.

pdstsp

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #12 on: 23:37:18, 28/11/18 »
Maybe it's because as walkers most of us go by the motto along the lines of, leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but memories, so when someone deliberately alters the environment we get [censored] off.  Take your point about the history of this area, but it still seems odd to me that people want to go there and chuck rocks into the mud.

tonyk

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Re: Vandals at Ladybower
« Reply #13 on: 00:14:46, 29/11/18 »

I suppose the ruins at Ladybower reservoir in the Derwent Valley, are just seen as a ruin, and free picking, with no thought or reverence shown, that these ruins were once somebodies home, and they were forcibly removed from a dwelling, that may have been in a family for generations.


Its a pile of stones, Who cares, Some of us do.
Reverence? They are hardly holy relics.If the village was the site of a natural disaster where occupants had been killed it would be a different matter.