Author Topic: The cow discussion........ again  (Read 2006 times)

happyhiker

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #45 on: 09:25:43, 07/12/18 »
On a lighter note, I was once in Devon and had gone out one evening to a vantage point to snap a sunset. Whilst waiting for that perfect moment, I sat on the top of a stile at the edge of a field of cows. After a while, a couple of curious cows came close enough for me to stroke their heads. Before I knew it, the whole herd were pushing each other out of the way to get their share of "affection".


I suppose I might have inadvertently increased the cows attraction to people, to the detriment of walkers using this path - never thought about it at the time - but it was amusing.


PS
Once had a strange experience with a farm dog. As I walked through a farm, this sheepdog came rushing out, barking, snarling, bared teeth etc. The full works. There was no one about. I felt sure the dog was going to attack me. I had nowhere to go and obviously could not outrun it. Running would only have made things worse anyway. In the sternest voice I could muster, I ordered the dog to sit, which it promptly did! It didn't bother me after that.
« Last Edit: 09:32:01, 07/12/18 by happyhiker »

tonyk

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #46 on: 21:07:45, 07/12/18 »
I am very disappointed at some of the responses on this thread. I thought we were a caring community of walkers and hikers on here. You may not realise how your posts are coming across; not just the lack of empathy and understanding but the blaming and belittling of others who have had bad experiences with cattle. Perhaps your posts are not meant to come across as being a bit aggressive and mean?

 
Its certainly not my intention to blame or belittle anyone.The problem is we have all got different life experiences and handle situations in different ways.What works for one might not work for another.
 Quote from a blog.
 https://www.lasikmd.com/blog/5-animals-worst-vision

 
 BullsThese animals may suffer more from an issue of psychology than vision impairment, but thereís a reason why bulls have acquired a reputation that they charge at the sight of red. Matadors in Spain have used decorative red capes for centuries to taunt raging bulls toward them in a thrilling feat of daring.
The catch is, bulls donít really run at the sight of red. Discovery Channel explained that color isnít important to a bull, but motion is. On an episode of the television show ďMythbusters,Ē multicolored flags drew no response from a bull when stationary. When the flags were shaken and moved, the bull responded to whichever was moving the most.

AFANASIEW

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #47 on: 21:59:47, 07/12/18 »
My problem is, what do you tell your nervous children about cattle? As they approach adolescence, you want to build their confidence so that they'll be able to go on walks with friends, so the temptation is to give the usual advice about staying quiet and calm, moving slowly, avoid getting between cow and calves etc but, while that nearly always works, I've seen some bizarre behaviour in both herds and individual cattle. For example, walking 20 yards ahead of a small group (wife, two children, brother-in-law), I passed the outlying members of a herd of cows with no descernible reaction from them but, when the following group passed by, the entire herd took fright and stampeded downhill, crashing through hedge and fence into the next, even steeper, field.Again with family, I've passed though a field of cattle uneventfully until, just as I was climbing over the stile into the next field, one cow went berserk and careered through the herd, rearing up to attack another cow.We've probably all been followed by curious, playful steers and turned round to discourage their interest, but there was one time when I was hobbling with hamstrings seized up through dehydration and proceeding so slowly that I was completely surrounded by the beasts, but a few surly 'Garns!' and extravagant gesticulations cleared a path before me.The advice has to be that, yes, you should be quiet and calm, but also be wary and, if you're at all unsure, have a swift exit strategy in mind. I've walked through hundreds of herds without fear and without harm, but always keep in mind that injuries do occur.
It's simple - one foot in front of the other.

Maggot

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #48 on: 23:11:01, 09/12/18 »

You might want to have a look at this
https://killercows.co.uk/facts-stats/cattle-attack-statistics-an-alternative-view/

We are more likely to be injured by cattle if you think about the numbers of car/bus journeys we have compared to the numbers of times we encounter cattle. How many other incidents or near misses go unreported?



A bloke who was attacked by a cow has spent his money hiring 'an expert' to crunch some data, do some jiggery pokery and come up with the result he wanted at the start!  Quelle suprise!


You do realise he quoted a figure which included reports of three deaths, which he said "had the potential to be fatal"?  If it killed you, it was fatal!

jimbob

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #49 on: 01:20:14, 10/12/18 »
Mmmm.
Didn't read it the way you do.
« Last Edit: 01:38:17, 10/12/18 by jimbob »
Too little, too late, too bad......

beefy

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #50 on: 08:48:36, 10/12/18 »

A bloke who was attacked by a cow has spent his money hiring 'an expert' to crunch some data, do some jiggery pokery and come up with the result he wanted at the start!  Quelle suprise!


You do realise he quoted a figure which included reports of three deaths, which he said "had the potential to be fatal"?  If it killed you, it was fatal!
Sorry,
Iím having trouble understanding the intention of your post,
How does it help the forum?
Are you saying there isnít a problem with cows?
Or am I misunderstanding it?
Thanks
DRIP COFFINS  :D

jimbob

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #51 on: 10:22:02, 10/12/18 »
Thanks Beefy. I also had a problem reading Maggots reply.
Where did the  article say anything about paid help?The bit about potential deaths covered ALL incidents and not just the three unfortunate fatalities.

The article is absolutely clear. Be careful around these large and unpredictable  beast. Most incidents go on unreported.
Too little, too late, too bad......

Murphy

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #52 on: 11:02:55, 10/12/18 »
Jimbob. Thanks. Thatís all I was trying to say earlier in this thread but for some reason some donít seem to accept it.

tonyk

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #53 on: 12:49:50, 10/12/18 »
 When you are being attacked by an animal statistics and being objective count for little.Its purely a matter of survival and often the subconscious takes over.Thankfully I have never been attacked by a cow but I have been attacked by a large dog.It resulted in me jumping over a 4ft high fence from a standing postion,something that  would normaly be way beyond my ability.All I can recall is a massive set of teeth coming through the door and then standing in the garden next door.

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #54 on: 14:49:21, 10/12/18 »
When you are being attacked by an animal statistics and being objective count for little.Its purely a matter of survival and often the subconscious takes over.Thankfully I have never been attacked by a cow but I have been attacked by a large dog.It resulted in me jumping over a 4ft high fence from a standing postion,something that  would normaly be way beyond my ability.All I can recall is a massive set of teeth coming through the door and then standing in the garden next door.


Funny you mention that 'beyond your ability' reaction - I had a similar experience walking through a farmer's field with cows at the opposite side.  Half way across I noticed them in my peripheral vision, heading towards me at full speed.  Normally I wouldn't be too bothered but they seemed to be going at such a pace I made a split second calculation that they'd reach me before I got to the stile at the opposite side and decided to put a burst of speed on.   About 20 meters away they were still barreling towards me, I remember my hairs standing on end and I ended up climbing a 6ft stone wall with an absolute grip of iron in an instant, pulled myself up and rolled over the top .. straight into a barbed wire fence on the other side, which hurt.  The cows of course barreled in to the space I was formerly in and one jumped its front legs against the wall and stuck its' head over.  Felt like an over-reaction at the time, but over the next few years noticed a few 'walkers killed by cows' stories, it's more curiosity than viciousness from them of course, but as someone who often walks solo I'm always mindful to not walk through them without a plan to get out of there rapidly.  Even if an 'attack' isn't fatal, something of that weight standing on you is going to cause injuries which may not heal properly. 

pdstsp

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #55 on: 18:09:16, 10/12/18 »
While I was in hospital in 2014, recovering from the accident which, indirectly, led me to take up fell walking again after many years of cycle touring, I shared a side ward with a farmer who had been attacked by his own herd, leaving him with very serious brain injuries.  As a result of his experience, relayed to me by his wife, as he could no longer speak, I am very wary of cattle. 


I find, on the whole, cows are fine, but I keep a very careful watch on them and always have an escape plan.  I avoid fields of bullocks as they seem to me to be very unpredictable, even if not aggressive. [size=78%] [/size]

pauldawes

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #56 on: 18:37:51, 10/12/18 »
While I was in hospital in 2014, recovering from the accident which, indirectly, led me to take up fell walking again after many years of cycle touring, I shared a side ward with a farmer who had been attacked by his own herd, leaving him with very serious brain injuries.  As a result of his experience, relayed to me by his wife, as he could no longer speak, I am very wary of cattle. 


I find, on the whole, cows are fine, but I keep a very careful watch on them and always have an escape plan.  I avoid fields of bullocks as they seem to me to be very unpredictable, even if not aggressive. [size=78%] [/size]


Yes, that ďeven if not aggressiveĒ is a good point...they are very large, very heavy animals...easy for them to cause serious damage with no ill intent whatever.


As I mentioned earlier in this thread Iím much more cautious when crossing field with cows in, than I was years ago.


This is something I discussed with a couple of nephews who regularly do farm work. I have expected them to tell me not to worry...but basically they both told me the same thing. ďDonít trust any large farm animalĒ.

April

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #57 on: 13:55:23, 11/12/18 »
You do realise he quoted a figure which included reports of three deaths, which he said "had the potential to be fatal"?  If it killed you, it was fatal!

I can't remember reading this? Where in the report was this?

The problem is (as pointed out in the link I provided) no full statistics are kept of incidents involving cattle.

Thanks to the others who have posted on here in a supportive way  O0

Murphy we are not alone, others feel the same way we do  :)

"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Murphy

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #58 on: 19:42:10, 11/12/18 »
 O0  Thanks April.

barewirewalker

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #59 on: 12:20:06, 12/12/18 »
Farmers often carry feed to the fields for the stock. The stock get used to humans being associated with food. Very common with sheep. Cattle were usually taken into the hemels for winter. Now they stay outside a lot longer and get taken sacks of high protein food and the younger ones naturally run to the expected source of easy grub.   If they bump you , you're in trouble. Nothing to do with breed, in this case it's to do with greed.
Just a bit concerned when I read this, earlier in this topic I have mentioned the Limousin breed as a possible source of aggression, my own awareness by being told by cattle stewards at an Agricultural show and this being followed up many years later by the story of a welsh farmer practically being persecuted by one of his own cattle, until it cornered him in a shed and would have killed him had he not known of an escape route.
April has provided a very useful link however a quick read through this does show some of the weaknesses that are inherent in the understanding of this subject and they are multiple. So quick snap judgments and assertions based on a small amount of knowledge are not helpful.
There have been very great changes in the countryside over the last few decades, farmers are slow to respond because of the growth of the landowner interest in grass roots membership, so a lot of specific problems such as this are not being addressed as they should.
Back to the specific of breed difference, if farmers would be more open and encourage visitors to the countryside to understand the cattle that are there, then perhaps walkers may be more aware of the signs of risk but opening up this would put the onus of individual risk assessment per animal on the stockman.
Here is an interesting bit of information; How to Identify Limousin Cattle  but the quote above says something that might influence others not to look at cattle individually. For instance the Hereford breed passes on it's white face to its cross bred progeny and is a very placid breed, even the bulls are usually nice natured. Within the link above I read;
Quote
Limousins are also known for their excitable and high-strung temperament which makes it a breed not a favourite among producers who like calm, docile cattle. High-strung cattle make themselves very dangerous for producers to work with, but Limousin breeders have been working hard to cull out this bad trait
Now even if the trait is bred out of the pure bred cattle is this trait a recessive gene and thus can it reoccur in X breeds when it matches a comparable hereditary trait.

Now some time ago I recall reading something on line (I believe it was a link provided by Sussamb on a similar topic) where a vet had produced a report stating that the breed aggression in certain breeds is not proved. This where the disparity lies because as the website April's link points out there is flawed data collection in relation the incidents of injury.
The big risk for those seeking access to countryside is that this issue may be used to limit access rather than get to the root cause. Legislators and Local Authorities will probably follow the cheapest least confrontational option.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.