Author Topic: The cow discussion........ again  (Read 5522 times)

ninthace

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #75 on: 23:58:47, 07/01/19 »
That is bit a harsh  To be fair, it is their land from which they are trying to earn a living, not our playground.  In this neck of the woods, banning cattle from fields with RoW would have a major impact and certainly wouldn't improve the walker/farmer relationship which in turn could lead to more attempts to block or shut down paths.
It was only last month that I had to sit in my local and listen to a farming family talking about how some walkers that had entered a field with a loose dog and than fled leaving the gate open so the cows had got out into the lane.  If you have seen the lanes in Devon, that could have resulted in a serious accident involving injuries to both cows and motorists.
There are two sides to this argument.
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barewirewalker

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #76 on: 12:36:36, 08/01/19 »
I agree with Ninthace that the attitudes expressed in the previous outbursts are too extreme, but his response is so placatory, as to be alarming, and too often expressed by the users of the countryside.
The land is a resource and as leisure is an increasing social and economic user of that resource, the occupiers, who cultivate, crop and raise livestock on that part of this resource that is soil must start to move with the times and realize that they each occupy a small part of the countryside that forms the entity that the leisure user needs.

An out date notion of 'freehold' has been claimed as a right by landowners, this has not been properly recognized by professional farmers, nor has the body that represents them taken on this responsibility.
Out bursts like those expressed will get more extreme if the root causes of these problems are not identified. I have tried to steer these arguments onto a more productive course, but have been criticized for this.

At a New Year's Eve dinner I was talking to a farmer's widow, she is now no longer farming and a keen golfer. There was a surprising amount of bitterness towards towards countryside visitors. She was happy to emotionally feed off such tales as related by Ninthace, her emotional animosity towards 'walkers' was surprising strong, though I don't think there had been a specific bad experience, other than perceived rudeness from local dog walkers. The root of this was money, not in lost production but the rental equivalent of outstanding mortgage and this relates into a landowner issue, because it was her sense of property that was at the core of the hostility.

What does this have to do with this topic? If there is underlying hostility, then the sympathetic understanding that should be present in Risk Assessment is possibly flawed.
If the same H&S scrutiny has been focused on these animal attacks, that most other professions and industries endure, then I think the farmers might be doing more.
If landowners were more open about sharing the countryside, then perhaps the dog walker's public nuisance might have been have been bought to book by a broader, more inclusive, countryside watch scheme.

For this to happen it is the Landowner and the Farming Lobbies, who need to become more honest. So don't go too easy on them.
« Last Edit: 12:46:46, 08/01/19 by barewirewalker »
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ninthace

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #77 on: 16:51:27, 08/01/19 »
With a few exceptions (always in the more walker trafficked areas such as the Lakes and Dales), I have always been treated courteously by the people I meet working out in the countryside and would hate for anything to happen to prejudice this state of affairs.  I think that most landowners welcome, or at least tolerate, what they see as "proper" walkers who can be relied upon to observe the Country Code. What annoys them are the casual users who treat the country as some kind of theme park - dropping litter, leaving gates open, not keeping animals under control and generally behaving in a disrespectful fashion to what is, after all, somebody's home and livelihood.
A particular subset of these are dog walkers, especially in the country close to towns and villages, who see farmer's fields as areas where they can let their animals run free without picking up after them.  As my farmer friend said, that field is his cows' salad bar, not some stranger's dog's toilet (bringing it slightly back on track there :) ).
Our village is a case in point - at present the footpaths and the sides of the fields (which are not rights of way) are churned up for up to 2 fields out along the radial footpaths then, magically, nothing.  In the tourist season we also get a bumper harvest of crap apples hanging in the hedgerows and on the barbed wire that somebody, i.e. the landowner, has to harvest.
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fernman

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #78 on: 17:08:32, 08/01/19 »
What annoys them are the casual users who treat the country as some kind of theme park - dropping litter, leaving gates open, not keeping animals under control and generally behaving in a disrespectful fashion to what is, after all, somebody's home and livelihood.
A particular subset of these are dog walkers, especially in the country close to towns and villages, who see farmer's fields as areas where they can let their animals run free

Witnessed this a few times today during a 7 miles walk in the Chilterns, dog walkers crossing pastures and going around the edges of crop fields where there are no rights of way. 

phil1960

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #79 on: 18:02:52, 08/01/19 »
Going a little off topic but hey it happens doesn’t it  ::)  Only once have I ever come across a farmer/landowner that was hostile to our presence, but I suspect that person was hostile to everyone on their land and on a prow. I have spoken to many farmers on my travels, had some really good interesting chats too.On the subject of cows in fields, yes of course they need to be responsible in what they do, and so do we walkers, if there is a right of way we have the right to use it, but for me personally I do give cows a wide berth.
Touching from a distance, further all the time.

barewirewalker

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #80 on: 19:07:15, 08/01/19 »
When I was an active NFU member I was involved in a number of campaigns, I was one of the first to recognize and warn of the danger of the very light poly bag, to the ruminant and a potential to cause and kill by bloat. There was a national campaign targeted at litter in the hedgerows. Printed posters were distributed to branches and erected along roadsides.

That was all we had then but the coverage got some attention at  the time. The landowners are so busy thinking up reasons to keep people out of their countryside, that they miss the obvious. The responsible visitor vastly outnumbers the yob element, they are the ally, who could witness, record and collect evidence. This could be done electronically, most walkers carry mobile phones, if a scheme, whereby farmers fixed a QR code by a way mark, rather than encouraging the hedge cutter to chop it off. Walkers could collect and identify, who to contact along the way, they then have a pool of information dated and timed that could be called on if needed.

A scheme like this could encourage enlightened landowners to offer additional access to identifiable people, gain feed back on hospitality as well as a free security info.

I might even get a mobile phone to help work out how the scheme could work. Early notification of distressed livestock, even footage of aggressive behaviour before it causes a fatality.  ::)
BWW
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Toxicbunny

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #81 on: 22:18:56, 08/01/19 »
Witnessed this a few times today during a 7 miles walk in the Chilterns, dog walkers crossing pastures and going around the edges of crop fields where there are no rights of way.


I always walk with my dog. If livestock are not under control like cows or horses I will go the safest route possible even if there is no rights of way.  I live in the countryside. One farmer near me has lots of grazing land yet he puts the cows with calves in the only field with a ROW . No warning signs up.even when a bull was in the field. In  todays news a woman was killed by cows. Whilst farmers do have to graze stock they need to remember the ROW were there long before them. I think personally stricter controls should be implemented. I've had to detour on many walks due to cows and some of my family were farmers. I won't take a chance with them. I can however understand landowners animosity towards walkers. I was walking on Saturday and the amount of idiotic dog owners are unbelievable. My dog is never off leash however I witnessed dogs off leash in sheep fields. These people give a bad name to walkers with dogs. Many don't pick up dog mess either which is dangerous on grazing fields.

fit old bird

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #82 on: 22:20:38, 26/01/19 »



Thank you for letting me pass through your field, they followed me to the gate.  Near Wirksworth on Thursday.


ilona

ninthace

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #83 on: 19:31:17, 29/01/19 »
Whatever you do, leave your trombone behind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs_-emj1qR4
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BuzyG

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #84 on: 22:53:42, 29/01/19 »
Whatever you do, leave your trombone behind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs_-emj1qR4
That was rather random, as my kids might say. ;)

ninthace

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #85 on: 23:20:21, 29/01/19 »
YouTube also confirms cattle appreciate the saxophone and the accordian.  Perhaps we should all carry a musical instrument?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYngwgvvHu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypL_EcI9XE




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jimbob

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #86 on: 09:06:34, 30/01/19 »
YouTube also confirms cattle appreciate the saxophone and the accordian.  Perhaps we should all carry a musical instrument?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYngwgvvHu4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypL_EcI9XE
That reminds me of my Dad, he used to sing to the beast whenever he was working with them. My elder brothers picked up the habit too, it always seemed to calm the flighty stirks down a lot. Me, I just watch them carefully, I don't really fancy carrying my fiddle on walks in case I bump into a curious herd. They'd have finished me off by the time I got it out if the case. ;D If not, then certainly shortly after I started playing.  :-\
Too little, too late, too bad......

adalard

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #87 on: 10:54:49, 30/01/19 »
If I started trying to sing they'd probably trample me immediately...

barewirewalker

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #88 on: 12:19:30, 30/01/19 »
Used to milk cows to the strains of early morning BBC 2, seem to remember the cows taking a while to get use to Terry Wogan's selections, when he was new to the early morning program.
Glad I no longer have to calm cows with modern beat, and ready curdled yogurt flowing through the pipelines.
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GinAndPlatonic

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Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #89 on: 12:28:40, 30/01/19 »
I havent got room for a trumpet in my bag..I will take a Kazoo with me when hiking round Dovedale next time...cows all over the show there..scary ones too :o