Author Topic: The cow discussion........ again  (Read 7231 times)

jimbob

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #60 on: 12:35:41, 12/12/18 »
No matter how much you want to blame Landowners, I stick with many, many years of knowledge. If they get you you're in trouble, So be wary at all times.My last word on this particular subject, these are very large beast, treat them with due care and attention.
Too little, too late, too bad......

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #61 on: 13:40:58, 12/12/18 »
It is not a case of blaming landowners, if we want to understand the underlying causes then it is necessary to identify the interests of the different parties.

As a farm manager I bred and milked daily a variety of cattle breeds. Bred both pedigree sheep and commercial fatstock, with some experience of flying flocks. From your many many years of experience, have you noticed, the current trend to grass fed beef is reducing the daily high protein rations being fed. Also the actual relationship of human contact with cattle was infinitely greater, when cattle went into cowsheds to be secured by neck chains on a daily or twice daily basis.

Now this was done before the days that the term 'Risk assessment' became a managerial norm, but temperament of individual animals was known and dealt with in a manner appropriate to the times.

Members of the public are not made aware of how important their observations are and this is because there is the massive reduction in the rural population, who work on the land. Landowners would prefer that they are not there and this is because of self interest unrelated to agricultural production. So they repress any collection of data that might jeopardize their self interest and might be of benefit to the workers in the rural enterprises as well as visitors.

More could be done in stock management to safeguard visitors, why not create safe zones around entry/exit points, temporary fencing equipment is light, effective and very mobile. Risk management has advanced beneficially in so many other endeavors, so why is it not advancing in the countryside without penalizing the visitor. Is it the interests of the agricultural producer or is it the interests of the landowner that is the root cause?

I think it is necessary for both organizations, which represent each separate issue to come clean.
« Last Edit: 13:46:16, 12/12/18 by barewirewalker »
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Murphy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #62 on: 15:19:36, 12/12/18 »
Quite honestly I couldn’t give a monkeys what breed, what feed, who owns land or anything else for that matter. Fact is simple be aware, be safe and be careful around cattle. End of story!

jimbob

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #63 on: 15:39:33, 12/12/18 »
Quite honestly I couldn’t give a monkeys what breed, what feed, who owns land or anything else for that matter. Fact is simple be aware, be safe and be careful around cattle. End of story!

 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
Too little, too late, too bad......

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #64 on: 16:24:28, 12/12/18 »
And I give monkey's because the OP was about a Farmers' Guardian link that is supposed to advise walkers how to walk safely in fields with cattle. Then April supplies a very valid link to a website that is trying to collect information on experiences to do with this subject. The better informed contributions are, may make them more valuable if they contain critical content, which seems to be deliberately left out of the safety advice supplied.
eg. much of which has been raised by posts on this topic.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

beefy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3203
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #65 on: 07:43:30, 19/12/18 »
A bull this time
“The experienced farmer "understood" cattle and was safety conscious around them, the court heard.”[/color][/font]
“[size=1rem]Cattle can be unpredictable but this breed of cattle are normally quite docile and easy to handle."[/size][/color][size=1rem] [/size][/color]



https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj3k-jpsavfAhVTuHEKHWPEAfIQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-england-sussex-46610623&psig=AOvVaw21p_zjayejoEJVpXtRv84G&ust=1545291569400416
« Last Edit: 08:25:18, 19/12/18 by beefy »
DRIP COFFINS  :D

tonyk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #66 on: 09:44:55, 19/12/18 »
 From the article ""Something like this is extremely rare but you are dealing with normally domesticated wild animals and everyone who does the job that Steven did knows there is a risk."
 Does such a thing actually exist? A wild animal never loses its base instincts and one of those instincts is to kill to survive.

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #67 on: 11:25:26, 19/12/18 »

Cattle can be unpredictable but this breed of cattle are normally quite docile and easy to handle.
I clicked on the link and was re-directed. This sentence was not in the article I read. Question was the breed of cattle actually stated? Where they black Limousin? (Black well muscled cows in the photo as the article describes the cows were moved to different field)

The description of the bull after the event is curiously similar to a quote I got from Wikipedia on the breed description of the Limousin cattle.

Quote
Limousins are also known for their excitable and high-strung temperament which makes it a breed not a favourite among producers who like calm, docile cattle. High-strung cattle make themselves very dangerous for producers to work with, but Limousin breeders have been working hard to cull out this bad trait

BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Jac

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #68 on: 11:40:17, 19/12/18 »

The cattle were Aberdeen angus and there were cows and calves in the field too. I suppose it's possible that it wasn't actually the bull that caused his death but a cow and calf situation leading to herd unrest and the bull being implicated by being found near him. No-one will ever know the exact story.
Link to details of the breed involved
https://www.farminguk.com/News/64-year-old-farmer-trampled-to-death-by-his-own-cattle-police-say_50017.html

So many paths, so little time

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #69 on: 12:43:23, 19/12/18 »
Thanks Jac, interesting to read that. The Aberdeen Angus is a much smaller breed than the Limousin, the black Limousin is probably quite rare in the localities that are my usual walking but this has got me thinking. If the herd were not pedigree there would probably be little proof that a black Limousin had not been used at some time to muscle up a commercial line of Angus. Quite possible the farmer himself would be unaware of a bit of genetic jiggery pokkery along the line.
Having been involved with pedigree stock breeding, though many years ago, the commercial strains were often little bit iffy.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

beefy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3203
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #70 on: 16:14:39, 19/12/18 »
I clicked on the link and was re-directed. This sentence was not in the article I read. Question was the breed of cattle actually stated? Where they black Limousin? (Black well muscled cows in the photo as the article describes the cows were moved to different field)

The description of the bull after the event is curiously similar to a quote I got from Wikipedia on the breed description of the Limousin cattle.
Try clicking on "more on this story"

DRIP COFFINS  :D

Toxicbunny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #71 on: 22:40:49, 06/01/19 »
No matter how much you want to blame Landowners, I stick with many, many years of knowledge. If they get you you're in trouble, So be wary at all times.My last word on this particular subject, these are very large beast, treat them with due care and attention.

I totally agree. Cows are very unpredictable. I avoid them if they are close in the field. The farmers where I live won't even turn their back on them. The video is all well and good but it depends on the breed , are they use to people do they have calves. I've been chased by cows and bulls on more than one occasion and I detour around them. Around 55 people are killed every year by cattle you never turn your back on them like in the video.

tyreon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #72 on: 19:32:18, 07/01/19 »

I'm not too sure how quickly I could cover a field theseadays. I'm very wary/suspect of cows. Many experiences.


Some years back(and still with fairly decent walking legs),I was thinking of carrying some air horn that I could discharge should too familiar cows appear threatening.


What would happen if you discharged an unloaded gun? I am thinking of the sudden retort. Would the cattle stop, then retreat and stampede?
I think some such device should be considered.


I was stopped from walking the Glyndwyrs Way(spelling?)some years back. Too scared because of threatening cattle and walking limitations. You don't have to look that far back to see one farmer putting a bull in a field that killed a walker cos he didn't like walkers. Was it the NFU or his good defence attorney that had the prosecution case dismissed.


Yes,some very good farmers. And some barstewards.


And who knows how cattle are being bred theseadays.


Alas,you have to look after yourselves thesedays. Anyway you can.

tyreon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #73 on: 19:51:42, 07/01/19 »

As a PS.


Are there any records of any farmers convicted for causing harm/death to any walker by way of aggressive cattle or somesuch?


Where's the RA in this?


My bet would be with any farmer v rambler as any conviction would have guilty farmer rebuked or fined a maximum 10k for a killing. And compo? Would you or your partner be happy with 6k? If they were in a box or wheelchair?


Shish. No wonder the young stay at home getting fatter on their X boxes!


Toxicbunny

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
Re: The cow discussion........ again
« Reply #74 on: 20:29:38, 07/01/19 »
As a PS.


Are there any records of any farmers convicted for causing harm/death to any walker by way of aggressive cattle or somesuch?


Where's the RA in this?


My bet would be with any farmer v rambler as any conviction would have guilty farmer rebuked or fined a maximum 10k for a killing. And compo? Would you or your partner be happy with 6k? If they were in a box or wheelchair?


Shish. No wonder the young stay at home getting fatter on their X boxes!


I've never come across  a conviction only this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-wiltshire-38209085.  Personally a lot of farmers are aware that cows cause a problem and put them out to graze across ROW regardless.