Author Topic: Theft of the Countryside  (Read 1456 times)

barewirewalker

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Theft of the Countryside
« on: 12:29:35, 29/03/19 »
Marion Shoard wrote a book of this title, she also presented a 1hour film in 1987, called "Power in the Land". Not that I watched that then, I was building up a business for my second career. Stumbled on this rather poor quality copy posted on the internet in 2017, yesterday.

BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

barewirewalker

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #1 on: 12:23:58, 04/04/19 »
Although the picture is poor quality (or was when I watched it, my broadband has been playing up recently) the soundtrack is quite clear. The points I found particularly interesting were those attitudes expressed by Lord Brocket, Duke of Westminster and others on a landowner's understanding of freehold. Points of views, which are not so openly expressed today, repressed by a greater awareness of public image and a need to appear more politically correct. Much of the latent hostility to access is based on this. Marion Shoard's particular arguments are mostly directed at 'Factory Farming' methods and she uses these arguments to emphasis how agriculture affects our enjoyment of the countryside.
Much has changed since 1987, but the attitudes openly spoken on prime time TV then, have not changed. They were evident to any, who could read between the lines of the CLA's 2012 Common Sense Plan for Rights of way, which completely missed to mention the economic value of our accessing the rural community.
 
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

tyreon

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #2 on: 16:25:33, 17/06/19 »

Is this a wind-up?


Gotta book upstairs detailing how control of 'our-land' has been eroded. BP has already risen.


I'm not so sure this denial of access is so readily accepted in Scotland.


Sometime back read of a family o English travelers who purposefully go out of their way to rob such people cos they reckon such people have robbed their forefathers. They seemed to be a law unto themselves such as some travelers are said to be.


My limited experience of limited access to land comes thru some overly aggressive gamekeepers or groundsmen who seem to lack any intererpersonal skills. Maybe if blocked access to through fares is blocked or challenged walking groups might find that  hiring Dave Courtney alleviates any distress of trespass


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dave+courtney&view=detail&mid=0A866DED1F4F47C97E320A866DED1F4F47C97E32&FORM=VIRE

barewirewalker

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #3 on: 09:00:28, 18/06/19 »
Thanks for your interest in this topic, it is not intended to be a wind up and the unfortunate poor quality of the 1987 broadcast may well have put off many from watching it in full.


It was a meeting over 15 years ago with Rights of Way Enforcement Officer and his advice, which was the reason I read Marion Shoard's book 'This Land is Our Land'. I thought that the program, which might give some here an insight into the incredibly lengthy research that is the content of the book, may be of interest here. The RoW officer, who gave me this advice, is the best person I have ever met at being able to explain the intricacies of our access law and the subsequent anomalies it throws up. As he is now head of department, I doubt he may be as free with advice, as he was when I first met him, but I was fortunate enough attend a Local Access Forum meeting in his county and witness the skill he has in keeping the footpaths open on his patch.

It is a sad indictment on our chosen interest that the corruption of the definitive map has been allowed to go unchallenged. After 2026 a major point in law will be lost, those 10% of our old ways, which should be on the Definitive Map, as estimated by Natural England will probably be lost forever. Why do Landowners want us to forget 'Lostways'? Because it was their fathers and grandfathers, who played the major role in corrupting the DM.

One of the most reassuring things about walking in Scotland, was told to me on the Isle of Arran. You cannot trespass in Scotland and that is because of the Scottish 2003 Land Reform Act, which allows the right of responsible access. English landowners fear this law. I  think that is the reason so many LAF's have landowner chairs, why else would they take interest in such a minor part of local government. The Corruption of the Definitive Map, if fully exposed, could gain the public support needed for the adoption of the Scottish access law in England.


I think the suggested link is irrelevant and in poor taste, I would welcome discussion with anyone, who researches 'lostway', my particular interest is to find relevant fact and reason on how they might improve the footpath network we walk on.


BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

pasbury

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #4 on: 10:44:42, 18/06/19 »
Interesting; do you have any more information about this corruption of the definitive map?


This an interesting article on the subject [size=78%]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/04/tackle-inequality-land-ownership-laws[/size] and contains a link to a new report on land use and law 'Land for the Many'

barewirewalker

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #5 on: 14:29:39, 18/06/19 »
Interesting; do you have any more information about this corruption of the definitive map?
'The Corruption of the Definitive Map', is a phrase I originally coined to raise the subject on the long since defunct Rambler's Forum. It described the effect that the self interest that those local government appointees from landowning backgrounds contributed to the formation of the Definitive Map and went against the will of Parliament.

On that forum I wanted to see if there were people out there, who could recognise the traces of this on the ordnance survey map. I ran a topic on that forum for over a year until they pulled the plug on their forum and went all FB and twitter. The topic got a fair number of hits but it was only after it's demise did I learn that there were a number followers, who were active on footpath business.

I have collected quite  a number of examples, walked the hallowed ground of "private estates" and proved to my own satisfaction that there are probably over 500 miles of lost way in Shropshire, which could be earning the county many £millions per annum in direct and indirect revenue.

Sadly since Piddle Bucket or whatever calls itself now tried to extract £300 from me to host photographs, most of the illustrations on topics I posted here are probably not easy to understand.

Included in those topics is my discovery that the president of the CLA, who would have been editor in chief and probable author of the 2012 CLA policy on access, which they claim as common sense, farms a family estate in Herefordshire, where there is and area of 11 square miles without any rights of way (despite an interest network recorded pre 1949 by ordnance survey). He also failed to recommend any policy that landowners may adopt if they have important features on their land of historical or natural importance. The Garnon's estate has an important section of Offa's Dyke in it, which probably explains its historical function, more that the fictitious route this way takes 10 miles away off course.

Personally I think the NFU are foolish to allow the CLA to get away with the infantile nonsense they spout, sadly this professional body does not have the wise heads that coached me as a young farmer, when I took the chair of a group branches many years ago. Since I got thrown off a Local Access Forum as soon as a hereditary landowner took the chair, there is little I can do, except carry on exploring, though my days out are less active than they were.

I keep on trying to add to my portfolio on The Corruption of The Definitive Map. :knuppel2:

I think there is enough logical reason to argue that a private estate with formal drives in and out is in fact an area of lost ways. The Landowners themselves have provided the reasons in their own arguments about the impractical nature of our rights of ways network to provide the basis of this reasoning.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

tyreon

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #6 on: 22:59:36, 18/06/19 »
I apologize for my poor taste, When I sometimes consider others in poor taste I tend to look over them rather than raise them in print unless it is offensive. Your interest in this matter(Theft of the Countryside)had my attention but your own comment I see baseless. No offence.

barewirewalker

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Re: Theft of the Countryside
« Reply #7 on: 10:36:17, 19/06/19 »
No offence taken.  :)

If the subject surrounding the Corruption of The Definitive Map has received more attention in the walking press or even the dailies, the relevance of my post may have seemed more obvious.
Sadly the Countryfile syndrome seems to exist everywhere, gloss over anything contentious, where the high and mighty landowner might be criticized, be sure to 'Knuckle yer Fo'head to yer betters'.
It seems all and sundry have done this in planning the last section of Shrewsbury relief road. A private bridge for an estate, which could have given a perfect country walk access for the town has gone unnoticed, despite an obvious C of the DM, which seems to have connection to Land Agent/RDC Chairman of that era. I mentioned it here in a topic  I started a few weeks back. Doesn't seem that I have been able to describe the situation very well.
But misunderstandings on forums seem to flourish.

At the moment I seem to be locked out of my Flickre account  ;D so visual aids are difficult.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.