Author Topic: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket  (Read 2772 times)

ninthace

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4289
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #30 on: 07:42:39, 07/08/19 »
That’s true.  My point was that the water vapour “molecules” on the inside will be much smaller than liquid “molecules” on the outside so in theory it can act as a directional filter if the gaps are the right size. Thus vapour may be able to pass through but droplets would not.  There will be more vapour inside than outside so the net flow will be outward.
Solvitur Ambulando

pauldawes

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #31 on: 11:44:46, 07/08/19 »
I remember Ventile from way back in the mists of time, it went out of fashion for very good reasons. It was heavy, it was hot, it was expensive, it soaked up water like a sponge and if the temperature then dropped it froze and was like a suit of armour. If the temperature was consistently so low that all moisture in the air had frozen and settle on the ground it was great, which is why it was used in Polar regions. These days no one not even the Antarctic Survey use it, there is far better on the market. A firm called Snowsled, they make sleds, used to sell Ventile Jackets for the wannabe posers but I think even they have stopped selling them.


P.S. Snowsled went bust, they were taken over by Aguille rucksacks up in the lakes.

I've got a single Ventile (Keela) jacket.

I used it a lot when I used to go "bog trotting" (that's a long time ago). For that short of long day walk it had advantages...it had so many large pockets, that I didn't need to bother with a rucksack..

And it was bombproof...it's still in wardrobe in excellent condition.

Your one comment that surprises me a bit is that "it was hot"...I don't "walk hot" so maybe this is a problem I wouldn't particularly notice...but I actually tended to use warmer mid layers and base layers when using this jacket, than any other I've owned.

Your other comments ( heavy, expensive, suit of armour) I agree with. I often used to wonder if single Ventile was this heavy, what double Ventile would be like...

zero

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #32 on: 18:22:06, 08/08/19 »
eVent and Neoshell (hard to find, not 'ultra lightweight') but they breathe so much more than Gore Tex anything! Personally I can't walk fast in Gore Tex (let alone run) except in winter when I find it's a better 'insulating' layer than the slightly air permeable eVent and Neoshell. In humid or warm conditions, anything is going to struggle to breathe. Or maybe a Rab Kinetic Plus which is more 'softshell' than 'harshell'? Alpkit has a proprietary fabric which gets some good reviews.

Dyffryn Ardudwy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1664
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #33 on: 21:00:02, 08/08/19 »
Dear Ninthace

Thats certainly an interesting article on the uses of Egyptian Cotton.
Its a new one on me, requiring any water repellant DWR coating on Ventile cotton, simply because of its very high quality, you want to allow the cotton to breathe naturally, and applying any water repellency coatings on a natural cotton, is not needed.

Ventile is so expensive, simply because its amongst the finest cotton available, being composed of the top 10% of the Egyptian Cotton crop.

The weave of the cotton is so fine, that in its double layered form, its amongst the most waterproof material on the market.

The cotton does get heavy when saturated with water, but once the rain stops, it dries out quite quickly, and being cotton, it will last years of continued use.

Ventile was first used for Emerson suits for pilots, who may have had to bale out into the cold sea.

I am also surprised that Ventile appears to be making a come back, as its very expensive to manufacture into outdoor clothing.

Its always been there in the background, being the chosen fabric for very harsh Polar expeditions, when cost of clothing is secondary to an explorers safety.

Most outdoor walkers probably have not heard of Ventile, and even if they did, would be put off by the cost of buying it, especially in its two layered form.

Put it this way, most avid walkers spending well over £300 on a waterproof would go with one of the recognised materials, than a jacket made just of cotton.

A lot would also be put off having a jacket that almost doubles in weight when its wet, but the beauty of the material, is that even when soaking wet, it remains fully breathable, and virtually totally waterproof.

Remember, when Ventile is soaking wet, the cotton weave swells up, stopping just about every water molecule passing through.

Sweat molecules are far smaller, and the cotton weave still allows them to move through the soaked cotton.

Its a great natural material, but its costly, and only for the serious outdoors type, such as a Highland ranger out someone who works  outdoors for their living.

Owen

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #34 on: 21:46:37, 08/08/19 »
What a load of male bovine excrement.

jimbob

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #35 on: 21:53:42, 08/08/19 »
Dear DA
My quick research showed that Ventile was never actually used as Airforce Immersion suits by any of the Allied forces.

Most of your other assertions ( repeated from your original post) also do not stand up to minimal scrutiny.

Seems they are OK in a shower but stupendously heavy and wet through easily in serious rain, fog and heavy mist.


Too little, too late, too bad......

archaeoroutes

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1281
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #36 on: 23:14:14, 08/08/19 »
Ventile does have its uses. Mostly as a more down-to-earth alternative to a wax jacket or more resistant to the elements boiler suit. I've had many, many different cotton jackets and smocks in mixed shades of green and they have mostly worked OK at protecting me from the elements but had the common success of not being easily torn. The arctic windproof smock was great - not Ventile but a similar cotton twill.

Keela is a reasonable outdoor brand and they stock several ventile garments, all slanted to the hunting and forest-working end of the market. Indeed everything I've seen since the 1970s orange kit is aimed at the outdoor workman.

Polar use was mentioned, and there is doesn't have the problems of rain. In my experience polar researchers (BAS for instance) nowadays use Paramo kit in its place. They do have overalls in Ventile and similar fabrics (with Thinsulate linings and DWR coating) however.

In summary, if you need reasonable protection from the elements and are doing work that will be rough on your clothes, then Ventile is a good option. If you want to go for a walk in Britain's mountains, then there are eminently more suitable fabrics available.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

jimbob

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #37 on: 23:43:16, 08/08/19 »

In summary, if you need reasonable protection from the elements and are doing work that will be rough on your clothes, then Ventile is a good option. If you want to go for a walk in Britain's mountains, then there are eminently more suitable fabrics available.
O0 O0 Though weight won't be a problem for a person who carries two Thomennn Altimeters and a handheld weather station around with them.
Too little, too late, too bad......

Dyffryn Ardudwy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1664
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #38 on: 11:34:23, 09/08/19 »
Jimbob and Owen, why not visit the main Ventile website, and then you may learn something about the history of the fabric.


Ive no idea where you have got your facts from, clearly not from the main website.

When i last read up about the stuff, it was manufactured and woven here in the Uk, but sadly the process has now been moved to Switzerland, but for some reason they have decided to apply a water repellant fluid into the process, that certainly was not the case some years ago.
Natural Cotton is meant to breath, and the very nature of the very dense weave of the cotton, does not really require any water repellant properties for it to work.

Water repellant sprays are required for the more modern manmade fabrics such as GoreTex, but i suppose a more modern target audience require a garment which repels water, and be seen to do so.









jimbob

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #39 on: 13:03:57, 09/08/19 »
DA Again, just use Google you will find the truth about Ventile marketing.https://www.google.com/url?q=http://welldresseddad.com/2017/05/20/ventile-ugly-facts-they-dont-tell-you/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjpnfDE4PXjAhWVmFwKHYI5Ai8QFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2NuNbcQqL3f_ZauNKEYjhphEdited to add just one of many examples oof simple searches.

Again you must understand your use of the word "molecule" is a huge problem.

If you mean rain drops, which comprise trillions of molecules of H2O then say raindrops.

Chemical engineering can make waterproof yet breathable membrane, weaving looms cannot make a cloth to do the same.
« Last Edit: 13:11:43, 09/08/19 by jimbob »
Too little, too late, too bad......

Pitboot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #40 on: 13:46:30, 09/08/19 »
DA - I have no experience of Ventile.  I would be interested in your response to this article http://welldresseddad.com/2017/05/20/ventile-ugly-facts-they-dont-tell-you/


God, what a whining clothes horse. I suspect if the fashion freak did research into ANY modern fabric he would come up with other negative conclusions.


I had a couple of ventile jackets, single layer and very comfortable as a shower and windproof shell, but heavy even with just one layer. It takes ages to dry, looks scruffy when it's worn in, it tears easily. Had some trousers too, quickly got rid of them, scraped my legs when wet, very uncomfortable. Probably great if it's cold and dry. Thank god for goretex and micro fleece.


ps, Not having a go at any forum members here, just the writer of the Ventile critique.

gunwharfman

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #41 on: 13:53:59, 09/08/19 »
I'm on the Two Moors Way hike at the moment, and for the past two days have walked though some heavy and long showers. I took my £15 Champion long coat with me and its the first time that its experienced REAL rain. I've managed to walk through some rain before, but my Two Moors Way rain came down like 'stair rods!' I am pleased to say that I am perfectly dry and interestingly I now know that the hood is far better than my Marmot Precip hood. Not one trickle down my neck. On some of the steeper sections, I perspired a bit and built up some inside condensation but quickly dried when I opened the coat to let the wind flow freely around me.

I have to decide today, shall I walk on through the coming storm or cut my hike short? I need to decide in the next hour or two at the latest I think. Last nights rain was so heavy I thought that my tent might collapse. I was in the pub and was warned about possible local flooding but thankfully that didn't happen. My tent stuck with it as well, but I had a small leak at the foot end, just enough to make the end of my sleeping quilt wet.

Owen

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1341
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #42 on: 15:15:40, 09/08/19 »
Jimbob and Owen, why not visit the main Ventile website, and then you may learn something about the history of the fabric.


Ive no idea where you have got your facts from, clearly not from the main website.

Quote


I don't need websites to tell me how useless it is, I have firsthand knowledge. I was unfortunate enough to have been given a hand me down jacket when I was a teenager.
How you can think a fabric that's saturated is waterproof is mind boggling. About as waterproof as a paper bag. And, quick drying? It took days to dry. Altogether  the worst material ever used for mountain clothing.

sussamb

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7111
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #43 on: 15:31:09, 09/08/19 »
O0 O0 Though weight won't be a problem for a person who carries two Thomennn Altimeters and a handheld weather station around with them.


Can't imagine who you're referring to  ;D
Where there's a will ...

ninthace

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4289
Re: What's the least hot, most breathable waterproof jacket
« Reply #44 on: 16:19:57, 09/08/19 »
I'm on the Two Moors Way hike at the moment, and for the past two days have walked though some heavy and long showers. I took my £15 Champion long coat with me and its the first time that its experienced REAL rain. I've managed to walk through some rain before, but my Two Moors Way rain came down like 'stair rods!' I am pleased to say that I am perfectly dry and interestingly I now know that the hood is far better than my Marmot Precip hood. Not one trickle down my neck. On some of the steeper sections, I perspired a bit and built up some inside condensation but quickly dried when I opened the coat to let the wind flow freely around me.

I have to decide today, shall I walk on through the coming storm or cut my hike short? I need to decide in the next hour or two at the latest I think. Last nights rain was so heavy I thought that my tent might collapse. I was in the pub and was warned about possible local flooding but thankfully that didn't happen. My tent stuck with it as well, but I had a small leak at the foot end, just enough to make the end of my sleeping quilt wet.
It is actually nowhere near as bad as the hype in the middle of Devon at present, blowy but muggy
Solvitur Ambulando