Author Topic: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane  (Read 1200 times)

El Principe

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #15 on: 23:14:42, 27/08/19 »
I have no more unlined boots to add to your list, kinkyboots. I had a quick scan of Lowa and Altberg websites. It's remarkable how the choice in unlined boots has almost disappeared. I suspect manufacturers are generally using thinner leathers and relying on the lining to provide more waterproofing.

Actually Lowa have just recently released the "Trekker" boot which, as far as I can see, is membrane-less.


Bit ugly though, too much stitching in the uppers. For the same price or better you can pick up the Meindls!


Anyways, thanks for all the input guys, and I'm glad we could make a discussion of it. Maybe we should make a pinned list somewhere, so that people can find a recommendation list of membrane-less leather boots?


Thanks

kinkyboots

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #16 on: 07:38:55, 28/08/19 »
Updated List

Meindl Borneo 2 MFS
Hanwag Tatra II
Hanwag Tatra II Bunion
Hanwag Alta Bunion
Lowa Trekker
Scarpa Delta Leather (end of line with very few still remaining in odd sizes around the country)
Scarpa SL Active (3-4 season crampon compatible)
Altberg Defender military boot (low level walking only)
« Last Edit: 08:16:03, 28/08/19 by kinkyboots »

NeilC

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #17 on: 07:40:21, 28/08/19 »
I have some Hanwag Hallux boots which are unlined. I wouldn't recommend them outside of Summer though. They are nubuck and made of quite a few pieces (they are very similar in design to Lowa Renegades). They get sodden and leak in a day when walking in wet weather, especially wet grass, even thought they've been thoroughly and repeatedly waxed with quality wax.

So if I were getting unlined boots I'd make sure they were full-grain leather and made of a single piece, or close to it. If Altberg did unlined, I'd consider them. I personally do not think nubuck every gets as waterproof as fullgrain, no matter what you do it it, because the layer they remove to make it Nubuck is the layer that is most naturally waterproof, close-textured and dense. I don't get the logic of using nubuck in walking boots TBH.

As for goretex boots not breathing and not drying out well, I agree with the former but the latter seems almost irrelevasnt - as far as I can tell no boots dry out in UK wet conditions anyway - that takes indoor drying.. My unlined boots certainly do not dry out to a usefull level on backpacking trips. Maybe they would if it's hot and sunny and get get dunked just once crossing a stream or something, but not on the soggy Welsh or Dartmoor walks I do. Personally I'm converted to Goretex

kinkyboots

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #18 on: 09:59:31, 28/08/19 »
It looks like the Hanwag Hallux has vanished from their current range and been replaced by the Hanwag Tatra II Bunion and Hanwag Alta Bunion. The list above has been updated to include these.

If Altberg did unlined, I'd consider them.

You are not alone. As I said before the gap in the market is glaringly obvious and I'm certain the demand would be there for the right boot/s without waterproof liners.

It might be wishfull thinking but perhaps a new version of the Altberg Tethera (built on their standard last) with the same high rand as the Altberg Nordkapp to give better toe protection with either a full leather or Cambrelle lining and backed up by a new version of the Altberg Nordkapp (built on their A-Forme last) using the same leather as the Altberg Tethera with either a full leather or Cambrelle lining?

Those two models would probably cover the vast majority of any demand with very little design effort/tooling required by Altberg to produce them. It just needs Altberg to be willing to take the leap of faith to make it happen.
« Last Edit: 10:12:12, 28/08/19 by kinkyboots »

Ridge

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #19 on: 10:12:50, 28/08/19 »
I guess that those of us who like them are a very small minority. If you don't know better, when you are offered boots with or without a waterproof liner, the choice would obviously be to go for the waterproof ones.
Over hill, over dale. Thorough brush, thorough brier....
I do wander every where

NeilC

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #20 on: 11:57:01, 28/08/19 »
It looks like the Hanwag Hallux has vanished from their current range and been replaced by the Hanwag Tatra II Bunion and Hanwag Alta Bunion. The list above has been updated to include these.

Ah yes...I did mean Alta Bunion actually - must have had hallux rigidus on the brain.

Mike B.

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #21 on: 20:13:09, 03/09/19 »
Theres loads (I also hate gore-tex in boots):
The Legendary
Lowa LL (Leather Lined Series) if you go to the Lowa website and put in LL in the search bar you get a lot of results.



Hanwag also do a few leather lined models.
Salomon Forces Quest 4d non Gore-tex

Ridge

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #22 on: 20:28:07, 03/09/19 »
Hi Mike and welcome to the forum.


We are quite a UK centric group and lowa.co.uk appear to have no leather lined boots available.


E2A just to prove myself wrong https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/lowa-womens-wendelstein-boot-B2124032.html?colour=143&rrec=true
« Last Edit: 20:33:03, 03/09/19 by Ridge »
Over hill, over dale. Thorough brush, thorough brier....
I do wander every where

kinkyboots

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #23 on: 17:32:47, 05/09/19 »
I contacted Joe Sheehan Altberg's Sales Director and asked him for his thoughts and comments on this thread.

His reply is below.   

Quote
Thank you for the email and information,

It makes quite interesting reading.
 
We do still make some walking boots with a cambrelle lining (same as in Defender), however this is done on a made to order basis,  and the lead time is quite long (16-20 weeks

I think the main reason that most companies to not make many stock items without a lining is due to demand for every 200 pairs of waterproof boots we sell, we get asked maybe 2 or 3 times for a unlined boot- even though the majority of leather we use are waterproof leathers this may also be the reason why some retailers are not as keen to stock unlined boots,
 
I hope the above helps,

Best regards
 
Joe

It turns out that Cambrelle lined walking boots are available to order from the Altberg factory (to those who know to request them) but only on a made to order basis with a 16-20 week lead time.

It's clear from his reply that lack of demand is the main reason for unlined boots vanishing from the market. The other thing to bear in mind is that in the current financial climate very few retailers are be prepared to tie up their cash stocking both lined and unlined options. 1 or 2 pairs of unlined boots out of every 100 pairs sold is not a good strike rate.

I would argue that if you don't actively market unlined boots as being an available option for customers to order you won't be able to sell very many and of course I'm sure many customers would obviously prefer leather lined boots in preference to Cambrelle lined boots.

Snowman

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #24 on: 21:50:14, 13/09/19 »
My take on this situation is that boot (and shoe) manufacturers and retailers have realised that there's money to be made from convincing the public that they need footwear with a waterproof lining.  The fact is that most leather boots can easily be waterproofed without the need for Gore-tex or anything else come to that.   In fact the reliance on a membrane infers that the user will allow the leather to become sodden to the extent that the membrane is the defence against water.   My personal opinion is that it is preferable to protect the leather against water since that would extend the life of the boot.


It has also become difficult to find a reasonably priced, but quality 'summer' walking shoe because everything now has to come with a waterproof membrane, which seems to double the price.


I've long been a critic of Gore-tex's aggressive marketing that has virtually forced its product on the market.   Who do you think is paying for their marketing?   It's certainly not them.

NeilC

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Re: Leather walking boots WITHOUT a waterproof membrane
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 15:43:51 »
My take on this situation is that boot (and shoe) manufacturers and retailers have realised that there's money to be made from convincing the public that they need footwear with a waterproof lining.  The fact is that most leather boots can easily be waterproofed without the need for Gore-tex or anything else come to that.   In fact the reliance on a membrane infers that the user will allow the leather to become sodden to the extent that the membrane is the defence against water.   My personal opinion is that it is preferable to protect the leather against water since that would extend the life of the boot.


It has also become difficult to find a reasonably priced, but quality 'summer' walking shoe because everything now has to come with a waterproof membrane, which seems to double the price.


I've long been a critic of Gore-tex's aggressive marketing that has virtually forced its product on the market.   Who do you think is paying for their marketing?   It's certainly not them.


That's true but I also remember the "good old days", before any boots had Goretex and I remember my feet getting very wet in soggy UK winter conditions after a while. I had quality, full-grain leather boots that I waxed and whilst they held off water for a good while they eventually got sodden and that was that. So for multiway backpacking in British hills where getting the boots constantly wet for 2 or more days, I'm more than happy with the Goretex, which keeps my feet a lot drier.


I'm also not convinced by the supposed quick drying of unlined boots. I'm they dry quicker in a drying room but they sure don't dry quickly enough on a backpacking trip to be dry enough for it to matter. Soaking wet leather takes a long time to dry in the UK. I imagine they work well on dry, foreign trails where you get wet feet crossing a stream but have dry heat and dry trails in between, but on Dartmoor or similar, nothing dries until you get back to building IME.


I'd like the option of unlined for summer but I can see why they're popular.