Author Topic: The problems of cold  (Read 1311 times)

Owen

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1425
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #15 on: 10:39:16, 12/11/19 »
Bothy shelter type bags are also worth carrying, you can even use them for lunch breaks.

gunwharfman

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3274
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #16 on: 11:37:22, 12/11/19 »
Thanks for all your views and expertise, very helpful. My personal hiking habits may be part of this matter, as a routine, I always change my clothes when I set up camp at the end of the day. Its a habit, a personal hygeine routine and the belief that it's better to sleep in dry clothes rather than damp, sweaty and possibly smelly ones. I also accept that my Neoair may have played its part, I'll experiment with that. Socks maybe, but I've never experienced cold feet, my quilt is really padded well at the feet end. I'll think of ways to improve my lot but I've decided to stick with the equipment and clothing that I already have. I've already got too much stuff, mostly mistakes and do not want to add even more unless I feel it's essential.

Doddy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #17 on: 12:02:28, 12/11/19 »
For what it is worth.I have some Alps experience and have camped at 12000 feet in the Sierra Nevada. I think sleep cold and I am in my 70's. My experience is that it is difficult to warm up a cold body in the sleeping bag and shelter. Food and a hot drink before bed, even some exercises- a brisk 100 metres up the trail and back. Get in the sleeping bag - don't sit around getting cold-9pm is hiker midnight. If it is going to be long night hike on with a torch or get up at first light, or earlier, and get moving. My warmest bag is down and to minus eight.
I have a silk sleeping bag liner and silk long sleeved shirt, silk long johns and wool night socks. In cold conditions I wouldn't lose heat and undress and have slept in rain gear. Put all your gear on - pointless to be cold and have pile of clothes next to you.
Although I now have TarpTent Notch I have been high up for long periods under a tarp. In winds the shelter keeps of the wind chill but your sleeping gear and arrangements will keep you warm not the shelter.
 Choice of camp pitch is in important camping in valleys is cold as the cold air filters down and settles. I try to get in woodland with depth of leaves below me. I am happy with my Klymit torso inflatable sleep mat.

Doddy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #18 on: 12:34:01, 12/11/19 »
Forgot to mention a nice warm wool Balaclava, use with mummy sleeping bag.

Patrick1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #19 on: 15:52:43, 12/11/19 »
Perhaps a relatively minor point but you mention putting a blanket over your quilt. Assuming a down quilt and a relatively heavyweight blanket, can I suggest put the quilt over the blanket? Since switching to a down sleeping bag myself a little while ago I've been fascinated by how, compared to synthetic insulation, down insulation relies totally on being able to "puff up", or loft. The slightest pressure on that insulation, just against the wall of the inner tent, for example, can be enough to squash it and feel the cold coming through. The weight of a blanket on top of a down quilt could easily squash the quilt enough to remove most of its insulating ability.

gunwharfman

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3274
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #20 on: 16:16:33, 12/11/19 »
I believe you are right Patrick1, my sleeping quilt does appear to rely on 'puffing up' but as I wrote, it worked very well when I first bought it but its heat-retaining qualities seem to be diminishing over time. In addition, the down seems to have moved from its original start position, that is, evenly spread throughout it baffles, to now gathering during the night to the edges of the baffles, thereby leaving the main torso area free. This is all my fault, I knew it was happening from some time back and I first thought of refilling the baffles (expensive) and then thought of fitting another down layer over me but I just never got around to it. I think from the experience of the last couple of days ago, throwing a blanket (or two) over the quilt just doesn't work well.

gunwharfman

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3274
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #21 on: 16:34:42, 12/11/19 »
My Berghaus Superlights were really useless on icy and snow-covered rocks so I'm going to buy a cheap pair of Quechua snow hiking non-slip, slip-on grips to cover my boots. They are £7.99 from Decathlon so I'm going to try a pair, if they also prove to be useless I won't have wasted too much money. I was very careful both going up and coming down Great Gable, other people slipped over but I didn't until I was on the flat. It happened in an instant, I fell on my back and I banged my left elbow on a rock as I fell. Lucky me, my elbow is still sensitive to the touch but I only ended up with a bruise.

Stube

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #22 on: 18:25:59, 12/11/19 »
I can confirm the effacy of solid inners in tents - I've often noticed at least a 5 degC difference between inside the inner and under the tent's fly. Mind you i have slept in a 1/2 season bag with a silk liner down to freezing conditions.
I would recomment a car windscreen sunshade (foam backed foil) under your sleeping mat for extra warmth - lightweight and cheap. I've even slept on one as my only mat - but then I like hard beds!




JerryW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #23 on: 17:04:42, 13/11/19 »
<snip>
It is interesting to note that 'experts' suggest that using a double skinned tent reduces the 'non-ground' cooling effect by up to 5*C compared to just using (say) a Tarp.

Well it is horses for courses, isn't it... my Zpacks tent is spacious and weighs 500g. but it is single skin and it is not like being indoors. Fine in the Pyrenees but maybe not in the Cairngorms when there's snow.

At -5degC I would be taking different kit and bare feet would not figure in the mix

Jerry

Slowcoach

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #24 on: 17:45:34, 13/11/19 »
One of the coaches at my running club used to say “ if you are feeling cold you are not working hard enough” which is fine until it’s time to sleep.
It's all uphill from here.

BuzyG

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1461
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #25 on: 20:23:40, 13/11/19 »
A very interesting thread.  I am a day hiker.  I do however enjoy sitting for hours under the stars after waching a beautiful sunset evey now and again.   

When I first tried this I used to quickly lose heat and after an hour would be cold and heading for the car.  Just a few simple changes have made a huge difference.  Firstly I learned to put my ruck sack behind me and lean back on that with my sit mat under my bum and legs pulled in, it means very little is in contact with the ground... Secondly I bought a cheap shower proof armless hudded puffer jacket.  This I chuck on in seconds over the top of my hard shell ME jacket.  These two simple changes have meant I can sit there for hours on winters evenings enjoying the moors.

These are in addition to my base layer and two light weight fleeces and my over trousers over my winter walking trousers. So I have five layers on top and three bellow.  Not forgetting my wool hat and gloves.

One odd thing I don't quite understand.  From Midsummer 30+ degree heat, to -22 wind chill, I still where the same thing on my feet.  Cotton sports socks, wool Walking socks and boots.  My feet neither sweat in the summer or feel cold in the winter? 
« Last Edit: 20:28:19, 13/11/19 by BuzyG »

richardh1905

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2692
Re: The problems of cold
« Reply #26 on: 17:13:02, 14/11/19 »
Interesting thread.


I would skip your changing routine, gwm and maybe look at using a cheap summer sleeping bag inside your quilt. And wear socks.


And +1 for solid tent inners.