Author Topic: Houseboats on Grasmere  (Read 5524 times)

Strider

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #15 on: 22:33:09, 24/12/19 »
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gunwharfman

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #16 on: 10:26:50, 25/12/19 »
No, I wouldn't want to see houseboats on Grasmere but over the years I have seen many times the power of the desire for power and profit, give a developer an opportunity and they will tarmac the whole of the UK!

ninthace

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #17 on: 12:05:35, 25/12/19 »
No, I wouldn't want to see houseboats on Grasmere but over the years I have seen many times the power of the desire for power and profit, give a developer an opportunity and they will tarmac the whole of the UK!
And equally if there was profit in it, they would grass it over, cover it in trees or paint it blue.
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gunwharfman

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #18 on: 17:20:39, 25/12/19 »
I would like to think they would but I bet there is and will still be more money in tarmac!  :)

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #19 on: 22:17:21, 25/12/19 »
As per Strider's post seems they are developing this as part of the woods to the SE of Grasmere which they seem to be wanting to purchase. Seems having somewhat of a landing, presumably it'll be secured otherwise as these 'rowing boats' they want to use for getting punters to the "gentlemen's yachts" need storing.


Shame as that little part of the Lakes is quite quiet, enjoyed running it when I was staying at Grasmere and once you get off the road side that corner has a particularly fine view back to Grasmere and the fells behind.


Not filled with confidence at the position of the LDNPA, they seem to be far more commercially minded than perhaps the national park should support.  I thought the UNESCO world heritage on top of the general NP status would protect areas from development - but seems when it's done by large local landowners that this status is waived.


Bigger question is how they're going to actually run these boats without shore support (only a car park listed in the planning application), how are they getting sewage off the boats, how are they supplying them with water etc.  If anything I was expecting a Lodore Falls style development at that corner of the lake.
 

alan de enfield

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #20 on: 08:22:53, 26/12/19 »


Bigger question is how they're going to actually run these boats without shore support (only a car park listed in the planning application), how are they getting sewage off the boats, how are they supplying them with water etc.  If anything I was expecting a Lodore Falls style development at that corner of the lake.

I would imagine they will use a 'pump-out' boat similar to that / those used on the canal network.





Boat carries a 'huge' tank, and pumps out the 'hire-boat', when the pump-out boat is full it returns to a point where a road tanker can meet it and empty its tank.

It is not going to be easy getting fuel for a generator to charge the batteries to run the electric motor, or to get gas bottles, and water to the boat using a 'rowing boat'.

pdstsp

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #21 on: 08:27:18, 26/12/19 »
Advice on the wording of objections is now on the Facebook page.  I have to say,bi am not sure the objections are massively strong, and I really hope the ownership of the land does not allow this to pass though on a nod.  What will happen when someone wants to out a floating premier Inn on Wast water.

gunwharfman

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #22 on: 09:57:30, 26/12/19 »
You're thinking like an entrepreneur, I hope no one steals your idea.  O0

ninthace

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #23 on: 12:03:25, 26/12/19 »
Folk are going to get awful bored floating around Grasmere for a week especially in the rain.  How are they going to get ashore each day to shop and explore the area?  By tender?  A cluster of Gentlemen’s Launches bobbing about in the corner of the lake is going to look a bit naff and ultimately they will go around on the gash ditched over the side.
Solvitur Ambulando

forgotmyoldpassword

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #24 on: 17:58:11, 26/12/19 »
I would imagine they will use a 'pump-out' boat similar to that / those used on the canal network.





Boat carries a 'huge' tank, and pumps out the 'hire-boat', when the pump-out boat is full it returns to a point where a road tanker can meet it and empty its tank.

It is not going to be easy getting fuel for a generator to charge the batteries to run the electric motor, or to get gas bottles, and water to the boat using a 'rowing boat'.


My concern with this is - what are these people doing with their time on the boat. Are they moored to a buoy and spend their time bobbing about day and night? Surely the guests will need a competent captain able to move these boats around and at other times will be immobilise, and as mentioned, how are guests actually going to spend their money locally. How do you spend the evening at a Grasmere pub when you aren't able to access your yacht from the shore again once your tender captain has clocked off.  It seems pointless being in waking distance of Grasmere and Rydal if you're effectively unable to get there.  I could understand if it was Ennerdale, but it isn't.


I do wonder whether they're pushing for land ownership changes so they're able to develop car parks and "support structures" in order to get a second stage business moving forward on the back of this "novelty'.   Not to forget the whole rowing boat crews somehow servicing the yachts by providing them with gas, clean water and so on - nevermind how their Asda delivery gets taken aboard.


This boat idea seems half April fools,  especially with existing footpath access through the area .. however boats can be rented and moved so there is limited exposure, perhaps floating accomodation (yurts?) is more likely with little jetties as a medium to long term plan, force it through to deal with the eye-sore of a failed boat operation?  Who knows. Very odd.

gunwharfman

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #25 on: 18:55:29, 26/12/19 »
I saw a lake housing estate in northern Holland about four years ago. All neatly moored side by side just like a land estate here and all of the lounges looked over the lake to the horizon ahead. The residents just walked straight from their 'house' to the lake edge footpath to get to the local town. This thread started me thinking, population growth cannot be hidden forever and we are constantly hearing and reading that the UK has a housing crisis so is making use of a lake a good idea? Given a choice would I want more green land made available for housing estates, or would I go for an estate built on a lake? I could be interested in the lake idea, sounds more interesting than some of the 'Wimpy' types areas I've seen springing up all over the place down here in the South. As a retired person, I could romanticise about living on a lake at Grasmere. But when I think about Grasmere, in particular, No, I couldn't, the place tries to be to 'respectable' for me, not keen on the area at all. Keswick could interest me though, I could just see myself living on a lake house there, waiting for my Carer to arrive to change my pad and microwaving me a ready meal! Sounds good!

Mel

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #26 on: 17:56:56, 28/12/19 »
Thinking outside the box for a moment (would you expect anything less from me?)


The Certificate of Lawfulness they have applied for is to confirm (or not) whether they need planning permission for their proposals.
 
If the CoL is denied/rejected then they will need to apply for full planning permission.
 
If granted/accepted then they will not.
 
After reading the application, planning proposal and boat spec I get the impression they feel the CoL could be denied on the grounds of Grasmere (the body of water) requiring a “change of use” (under Town and Country Planning legislation) and that is why they’ve concentrated so heavily on providing evidence as to why what they’re proposing is no different to the current useage/activities of the mere.
 
So….
 
Grasmere (body of water) is most likely a category use class “D2 Assembly and leisure - Cinemas, music and concert halls, bingo and dance halls (but not night clubs), swimming baths, skating rinks, gymnasiums or area for indoor or outdoor sports and recreations (except for motor sports, or where firearms are used).”
(quoted bit taken from the Planning Portal)
 
Category D2 doesn’t generally include/allow overnight/sleeping activities unless there are “sui generis” exemptions (basically bespoke/unique exemptions) and, as far as I can tell Grasmere (the body of water) isn’t CURRENTLY used for any kind of overnight activities or motorised craft which makes me think there are no exemptions at present.
 
They are getting round the motorised sports/craft issue by using “5 horse power electric motor” (think car –v- mobility scooter).
 
Anything which involves a sleeping risk falls within use class “C” under T&CP legislation (of which there are many, many sub and sub-sub categories!) – think hotels, guesthouses, rented accommodation, private dwellings, care homes, hospitals to name but a few.
 
A floating unit (whatever you choose to call it) which provides self-sufficiency and sleeping accommodation for paying guests for up to a week would constitute the need for a change of use for Grasmere (the body of water) in order for their proposals to be implemented legally.
 
To change from a “D” use class to a “C” use class (or even incorporate one into the other “sui generis”), I think, would require a full planning application to be submitted so the Certificate of Lawfulness could well be rejected on those grounds.
 
… in any event, the CoL is rejected, all that means is they would then have to apply for full planning permission if they still wanted to go ahead with their proposals.  And oh what red tape covered hoops they would have to jump through then … might turn out not to be financially viable after all…

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richardh1905

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #27 on: 18:21:34, 28/12/19 »
Walked along the south shore of Grasmere today - completely inappropriate to consider houseboats (and their support infrastructure) on such a small body of water, especially right in the heart of the Lake District National Park.

ninthace

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #28 on: 19:59:50, 28/12/19 »
Walked along the south shore of Grasmere today - completely inappropriate to consider houseboats (and their support infrastructure) on such a small body of water, especially right in the heart of the Lake District National Park.
I for one would not like to try picking up a mooring in a confined anchorage with a boat that size in any kind of wind with just a 5hp motor.  I suspect they will spend a fair bit of time bumping off one another.
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jimbob

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Re: Houseboats on Grasmere
« Reply #29 on: 20:11:14, 28/12/19 »
Mel has posted a very interesting set of facts on planning there.
I do now wonder if this whole idea and the resulting permit applications etc. are nothing to do with this location but rather a cheap way to see what they could get away with elsewhere.

Be interesting to see what they actually present and see the discussions that take place around those submissions.

Am I being totally sceptical that this is nothing less than a feint move?
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