Author Topic: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?  (Read 1267 times)

Skippy 2019

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #15 on: 02:37:56, 26/01/20 »
Technically the Queen owns all the UK, in fact the Commonwealth.
If she says get your tent off my land, you get!  ;D
Sorry! Utterly wrong. ;D

jimbob

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #16 on: 08:44:57, 26/01/20 »
Sorry! Utterly wrong. ;D
It is a fact that the Crown owns all the land in the UK. It is granted for use to others in the form of freehold or leasehold. Minerals under the land are owned by the Crown, not by the freeholders.
Too little, too late, too bad......

WhitstableDave

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #17 on: 09:13:48, 26/01/20 »
It is a fact that the Crown owns all the land in the UK. It is granted for use to others in the form of freehold or leasehold. Minerals under the land are owned by the Crown, not by the freeholders.

And since the UK comprises less than 1% of the area of the Commonwealth, perhaps it would have been fairer to say you were almost utterly wrong...  ;)

ninthace

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #18 on: 09:35:04, 26/01/20 »
It is a fact that the Crown owns all the land in the UK. It is granted for use to others in the form of freehold or leasehold. Minerals under the land are owned by the Crown, not by the freeholders.
Surely, leasehold is granted by the freeholder, not the Crown.
Solvitur Ambulando

jimbob

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #19 on: 09:42:41, 26/01/20 »
True but the Crown can also grant leasehold on its directly owned land. In which case there is no freeholder per se.

I used to deal with wayleaves for a couple of years and the layers of land ownership are a bit like onion skins, except if all else failed we could appeal direct to HM Government which would give directions on behalf of the Crown.

Too little, too late, too bad......

barewirewalker

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #20 on: 12:45:33, 27/01/20 »
Peel back the layers of the onion social misconduct to get to real criminal,  laws were brought in to ensure that a certain section of society did not starve the nation, now as the crown's subjects become more stressed are we experiencing another similar scenario.
George Montbiot has used the frighteners of this argument on a number of occasions, but I do not think he has ever tried to really move beyond trying to protect travelers.

The real answer is a requirement of freehold to have responsibility for how an occupant of a certain part of the countryside affects the rest of the community. As such the real ownership, the crown, is pertinent in finding a solution to an age old difference of opinion.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

pleb

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #21 on: 10:19:53, 28/01/20 »
And since the UK comprises less than 1% of the area of the Commonwealth, perhaps it would have been fairer to say you were almost utterly wrong...  ;)
https://www.royal.uk/commonwealth-and-overseas
Think I am utterly right......technically the Queen is landlord of the Commonwealth.
Unless its changed in recent years?
We're all doomed! DOOOMED I SAY!

barewirewalker

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #22 on: 09:21:44, 29/01/20 »
And within this conundrum the answer to the English answer to the Scottish Land Reform Act may lie.

Many years ago I had lecture in a pub from a rather garrulous architect. I used the term 'landowner' to be told that there is not such thing as a 'landowner' and the argument hinged on this very point.

A Point that I think the landowners themselves had admitted to when they changed the name of their monthly propaganda periodical to Land and Business so not openly using the term landowner.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

jimbob

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #23 on: 11:25:27, 29/01/20 »
Or another dose if mass Tresspass.
Too little, too late, too bad......

barewirewalker

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #24 on: 09:12:05, 30/01/20 »
Or another dose if mass Tresspass.
Or it is perhaps a loss that an active demonstration made by mountaineers and hill climbers has gone unnoticed by those of us south of the border. I should not known of it had I not been verbally abused by a farmer doing a X Wales walk and just starting to learn to use a PC and understand the internet.
I think traces of it have now disappeared or too hard to find. The little understanding I have is a well orchestrated campaign based on the Munroes, that were in '?Private land' being strategically accessed and orchestrated by a website and /or underground publication.
It probably contributed to the Scottish Land Reform Act of 2003 more than the SNP would care to admit.  ;)
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

sunnydale

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #25 on: 07:22:15, 31/01/20 »

Every person who lodges in any premises, or occupies or encamps on any land, being private property, without the consent and permission of the owner or legal occupier of such premises or land, and every person who encamps or lights a fire on or near any road or enclosed or cultivated land, or in or near any plantation, without the consent and permission of the owner or legal occupier of such road, land, or plantation shall be guilty of an offence punishable as herein-after provided.



Does this include ‘travellers’? We have a small community of them living on private land very close to the town centre! Their rubbish is currently strewn all over the place >:(  They light fires, cause damage, make a lot of noise & allow their dogs to run wild.
Apparently it costs the local council too much money to get them moved, so they are left to their own devices.
A public footpath runs adjacent to their ‘camp’ & a long stretch of it is littered with rubbish; soiled nappies, beer cans, fast food packaging etc.
Local residents are now avoiding using the path.
It’s disgusting that nothing is being done :(




***Happiness is only a smile away***

barewirewalker

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Re: Trespass to become a criminal offence in England?
« Reply #26 on: 10:59:09, 31/01/20 »
George Montbiot and others use the scare of loss of freedom of the countryside, when public opinion is roused enough to suggest that travellers are the reason to strengthen in favour or the landowner. Yet there already is a strong circumstantial case for a criminal charge;
Quote
For England and Wales, dropping litter is a criminal offense under Section 87(1) of the EPA 1990, such that: 'A person is guilty of an offense if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it'.
Surely enough to warrant a police forensic investigation.

Question; If the law of trespass is strengthened in this manner, will the councils still be weak in using the new law against the very people who will have caused it to be introduced or will it just be used by landowners to keep law abiding people out of their countryside?

Is there a mitigating counter proposal, add a social responsibility to Freehold? So that those who occupy substantial parts of the countryside are required to learn and understand how their occupation affects the rest of society.

EG. Harry Cotterell, Landowner and past president of the CLA, who has a significant part of Offa's Dyke on his land, and yet it is 10 miles away from the Offa's Dyke Path and in a different country let alone county.
« Last Edit: 11:02:15, 31/01/20 by barewirewalker »
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.