Author Topic: Don't Lose Your Way campaign  (Read 567 times)

richardh1905

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Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« on: 08:20:38, 11/02/20 »

fernman

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #1 on: 08:50:52, 11/02/20 »
Thanks, Richard. Good news article, and a great effort by the Ramblers - though at this moment their 'Join the search' link is timing out, probably overleaded.

I would like to see this thread pinned so that it is always visible on this site and doesn't become 'lost' among all those that follow it. Then it can come to the attention of all new members and serve as a reminder for the remainder.

harland

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #2 on: 09:33:53, 11/02/20 »
Off line currently so just asking for email address and they will let you know when back online.  Hopefully lots of people trying to help. O0

barewirewalker

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #3 on: 12:28:07, 11/02/20 »
I would like to see this thread pinned so that it is always visible on this site and doesn't become 'lost' among all those that follow it. Then it can come to the attention of all new members and serve as a reminder for the remainder.
Good idea, but I have been trying to explain how 'lostways' can have a practical use in an effective access network for the 21st century, for over 10 years with little effect.

Have the Ramblers correctly identified what a lostway really is? We have since the Corruption of the Definitive Map a period of lost opportunity, where new ways should have responded to changing times and developing types of walking. They will have little effect until they can be related to real time.........




BWW
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richardh1905

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #4 on: 07:14:10, 12/02/20 »
Hmm .. got into the site this morning, but cannot register to submit the results of my first square.

fernman

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #5 on: 20:06:50, 13/02/20 »
During my walk yesterday I saw two laminated notices fixed to a post at the start of a footpath across an arable field.
The top notice was in legal jargon but the lower one gave a clear explanation. My photo of it is attached below, it saves me typing a summary.
Is there a connection between this and the 2026 deadline?


barewirewalker

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #6 on: 09:21:22, 14/02/20 »
That is a bit of legalize that is a direct result of Sarah Slade, lawyer and landowner in Devon, who is the CLA's adviser on access. She started the campaign around 2010, with seminars and workshops for landowners, all part of the landowners drive to increase grass roots membership. With the loss of many hereditary peers in the House of Lords, the CLA realised that they could no longer rely on the Lords to block legislation that gave more freedom of the countryside. They had to expand their membership to smaller holders of land, stirring up anti-access sentiment was the best way to pinch membership fees of the NFU. They are now are probably using 'Statementing' as an insurance against the re-instatement of Lostways.

BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ninthace

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #7 on: 14:25:45, 14/02/20 »
Had a happy few hours discovering old paths in my area and reporting them.  Found some good ones across former moorland which I reported and a few that were dead ends leading to a farm or manor but I didn't bother with them.
Does anyone know a way of recording which kilometre squares you have done so save wasting effort or missing squares?  I started doing an expanding spiral but then I found lost ways that crossed more than one square and so I followed them.  Now I have been hoist by my own petard.
Solvitur Ambulando

pleb

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #8 on: 16:07:13, 14/02/20 »
During my walk yesterday I saw two laminated notices fixed to a post at the start of a footpath across an arable field.
The top notice was in legal jargon but the lower one gave a clear explanation. My photo of it is attached below, it saves me typing a summary.
Is there a connection between this and the 2026 deadline?


How can you apply to the council not to recognise anymore prows?
Ruddy cheek.
We're all doomed! DOOOMED I SAY!

barewirewalker

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #9 on: 16:48:57, 14/02/20 »
Some years ago, I named squares by the 6 figs of the map ref. I measured distance of footpaths per square, after some soul destroying hours of endevour I realized that I was wasting my time, this methodical method tells little of the nature of a way. It is the continuity of the way that is relevant and the ways value to a future network.
Only by finding the way and it's destinations, then realizing how it benefits the access network today and in the future, will they stand a chance of getting onto a definitive map. The register of claims will ensure that the claim to an old way can survive after 2026, it will still have to go through the legal process for reinstatement.

Seeing how the old ways interacted with the roads as they were then, often reveals that a so-called shortcut is actually a longer way with a different destination to which the road might seem to show.

If you have a path to a manor, then another leading on from the other side, this creates a throughway and what manner of folk were using them, the clergyman on his rounds, postman, midwives, knife sharpeners and tinsmiths let alone the labourers who would move from farm to farm looking for employment or drifting towards fairs. 
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ninthace

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #10 on: 17:30:27, 14/02/20 »
If you have a path to a manor, then another leading on from the other side, this creates a throughway and what manner of folk were using them, the clergyman on his rounds, postman, midwives, knife sharpeners and tinsmiths let alone the labourers who would move from farm to farm looking for employment or drifting towards fairs.
  If there was a through way I recorded it.  What I found were dead ends - looked like shortcuts once used to get from the road to t'big house.  No point in reinstating them as they did not go anywhere.  I found I lost track of where I was following old paths across the km squares.
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barewirewalker

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #11 on: 12:34:24, 15/02/20 »
  If there was a through way I recorded it.  What I found were dead ends - looked like shortcuts once used to get from the road to t'big house.  No point in reinstating them as they did not go anywhere.  I found I lost track of where I was following old paths across the km squares.
I'm sure you do, I was not stressing this point for those, who regularly use maps and walk, so understand terrain. Often, when talking to a farmer, I hear a too simplified version of a footpaths purpose or, indeed, history. This is understandable if your read the farming press on access issues, but the stereotype and knee-jerk replies have focused my mind on a delving deeper.
 Linking the type of rural population to a way at is often the means of seeing a true destination for a way, which can place it many miles beyond it's actual termination.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #12 on: 12:37:31, 15/02/20 »
Had a happy few hours discovering old paths in my area and reporting them.  Found some good ones across former moorland which I reported and a few that were dead ends leading to a farm or manor but I didn't bother with them.
Does anyone know a way of recording which kilometre squares you have done so save wasting effort or missing squares?  I started doing an expanding spiral but then I found lost ways that crossed more than one square and so I followed them.  Now I have been hoist by my own petard.

I found the Ramblers website problematic a couple of days ago but I think it just couldn't deal with the number of users. All seems to be working OK now and I have completed thirty squares albeit most of these were in an area I have been researching lost ways in anyway. In order to keep a check of which squares I had completed I printed out an OS map of the area and marked them off thereon, as like you I couldn't see that the site offered a way of doing this.

How can you apply to the council not to recognise anymore prows?
Ruddy cheek.

I think this is just the standard section 31(6) wording where landowners can register with the council that they only recognise existing ROW and no others. That said this registering cannot override a claim for a lost way that pre-dates it. This system has existed I believe for many years, but I have seen a lot more of these recently. As BWW suggests I suspect the CLA, and indeed property agents/solicitors will promote this for their own interests. I have seen a few of these notices actually pinned up in recent years, and Suffolk's ROW Department website has a register of these going back many years, which is in itself a useful reference source. I believe they used to be for a ten year period but that they can now cover twenty years.

barewirewalker

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #13 on: 10:08:55, 16/02/20 »
How can you apply to the council not to recognise anymore prows?
Ruddy cheek.
Interesting comment.
I am fairly certain that a property owner has 'statemented' against a possible RoW where there is a lostway that would help to open up a 20 mile route E2W across Shropshire.

2 years ago I was picking up post from a house following a death in the family. This elderly relative got flyers from all the posh estate agents and one expensive brochure (the sort that becomes coffee table adornment in a certain types of household or waiting room) contained an article on the need to statement against possible RoWs, by a young newly qualified Estate Agent, trying to be up with the game.

Now I think that there is enough evidence recorded by the OS on maps to show that the Access Network has evolved without the express permission of landowners. Does this show that statementing is contrary to an earlier common law? The other rather interesting line of thought this comment raises is, "Should a landowner be allowed to statement in an area low in off highway access, should a landowner actually consider how the position of that property may affect safe cross country travel". The Scottish Land Reform Act 2003 in fact provides a very neat answer to this conundrum.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

ninthace

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Re: Don't Lose Your Way campaign
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 16:11:40 »
I've got another grump with the site now.  Having complained that there ought to be a way of telling which squares you have already done, it now greys them out and marks them as unavailable.  That would be fine if I had actually finished the square.  However, while I initially started checking both the historic  OS and the Barts maps, I found the Barts was not telling me anything extra so I started ignoring it.  Then I discovered what appeared to be a lost way on the historic OS which wasn't marked as an FP or a BW.  Checking the Barts map showed an old lane which I recorded.  The lane ran on into the next square and into the squares beyond that but they were all greyed out so I could not record the lost way.  Now I want to go back and check my original work but I cannot access it any more.  We need the means to unlock a square already recorded against the user.
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