Author Topic: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?  (Read 1733 times)

Oldtramp

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #30 on: 20:01:33, 26/04/20 »
@richardh1905; ninthace


I respect your views. I'm not at the top of the risk pyramid, but not at the bottom either.  My point is that this virus is unlikely to go away and that one cannot hide for ever.   If I thought a long lockdown might cause it to do so, I'd take a different view.  But, given its int'l dissemination I reckon it'll be there and waiting when we come out. In which case better (a) not to impoverish ourselves and (b) to face hazard in the summer than next flu season.   So much for the economics and science of it, but poetry's often better and Housman captures my thinking, or comes close to it:


Far I hear the bugle blow
To call me where I would not go,
And the guns begin the song,
“Soldier, fly or stay for long.”


‘Comrade, if to turn and fly
Made a soldier never die,
Fly I would, for who would not?
’Tis sure no pleasure to be shot.


‘But since the man that runs away
Lives to die another day,
And cowards’ funerals, when they come,
Are not wept so well at home,


Therefore, though the best is bad,
Stand and do the best, my lad;
Stand and fight and see your slain,
And take the bullet in your brain.’

...... and, who knows, the odds are a damn sight better than at the Somme or Waterloo, even if you have the odd co-morbidity
« Last Edit: 20:04:52, 26/04/20 by Oldtramp »

ninthace

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #31 on: 20:29:44, 26/04/20 »
Nice poem - but supposed you stayed in your trench until the Armistice?   I may or may not be able to the avoid virus, time will tell but there is nothing to be gained by putting myself or my loved ones in harm's way if I can avoid it.  On the other hand there is much to be lost by catching it, both personally and for my family, not to mention the expense to the NHS.  As I said, the prevalence of the virus decreases with time, increasing the odds of avoiding it altogether and increasing the chances of an effective treatment being discovered.
I am retired, my economic contribution as a producer is zero and as a consumer is pretty similar in or out of lockdown.  The only things I am not doing at present is going to the pub and buying petrol 20 litres of petrol every 6 weeks.
Solvitur Ambulando

Oldtramp

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #32 on: 21:00:52, 26/04/20 »
@Ninthace


Choosing prolonged self-isolation/social distancing on you own account would, of course, be your business.    I wouldn't dream of criticising anyone's free choice so long as it didn't impinge upon me.  And, of course, maybe the folks seeking vaccines will hit lucky.  So, you may win.


 Just three points, though:

(a) How long are you prepared to do this for?

(b) Suppose natural immunity arises in those who've been infected but is short lived.  If so, the likelihood (based on common cold coronaviruses in the 1980s) is that people who've had one dose will have milder repeat infections.  But, you'll still be virgin territory for something that's turned endemic.   Hiding then becomes even harder.

(c) There was an argument, which I support, for giving the NHS time to prepare.  But the notion that you're saving the NHS money in the long term is, surely, questionable.  Very cynically, the  NHS gains financially when people die quickly of things that don't require multiple interventions; its day-to-day travails are due to 'revolving door patients' in and out repeatedly with multiple pathologies. 


...... & staying in the trench till Armistice.... well, first my Gt Grandfather was the RSM in the 5th XXXXXX Rgt and wouldn't have been pleased.....and, second, it wouldn't have done you any good when the the Germans attacked in March 1918.  They'd have come into your safe little trench.
« Last Edit: 21:23:42, 26/04/20 by Oldtramp »

ninthace

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #33 on: 21:35:58, 26/04/20 »
@Ninthace


Choosing prolonged self-isolation/social distancing on you own account would, of course, be your business.    I wouldn't dream of criticising anyone's free choice so long as didn't impinge upon me.  And, of course, maybe the folks seeking vaccines will hit lucky.  So, you may win.


 Just three points, though:
(a) How long are you prepared to do this for?
(b) Suppose natural immunity arises in those who've been infected but is short lived.  The likelihood is (based on common cold coronaviruses in the 1980s) that people who've had one dose will have milder repeat infections.  But, you'll still be virgin territory for something that's turned endemic.   Hiding then becomes even harder.
(c) There was an argument, which I support, for giving the NHS time to prepare.  But the notion that you're saving the NHS money in the long term is, surely, questionable.  Very cynically, the  NHS gains financially when people die quickly of things that don't require multiple interventions; its day-to-day travails are due to 'revolving door patients' in and out repeatedly with multiple pathologies. 


...... & staying in the trench till Armistice.... well, first my Gt Grandfather was the RSM in the 5th XXXXXX Rgt and wouldn't have been pleased.....and, second, it wouldn't have done you any good when the the Germans attacked in March 1918.  They'd have come into your safe little trench.
a.  As long as I can - it is no great hardship to tbh.  I have worked with and taught people to handle radioactive materials, many of the same principles apply.  Moreover, as the risk reduces, I can adapt my strategy.  It beats the alternative in my book.
b.  The odds of it killing me if I get it are probably higher than rolling a double 6, have a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and this time pick a country that is following a similar strategy to the UK rather than one taking a more proactive approach, say one whose graphs we are following closely.  Even if it does not kill there is a fair chance it will hurt and my family may get it.  That is too high a price to acquire a possible immunity that may or may not last.
c.  I am also happy to give the NHS time to prepare.  In time they will get better at treating the condition and have more resources. You still have not addressed the possibility of an effective treatment being developed in time, which if not a cure, may reduce the impact.


Your Gt Grandfather can whistle - I have 30 years military service behind me from before the Falklands, through the Balkans, Gulf 1, Gulf 1.5, Gulf 2 and Afghanistan not to mention being the target of various terrorist groups.   In that time, I have lost friends and I have had to break bad news.  I might add that the war analogy is a poor one.  We may think of it in those terms but you cannot apply the principles of warfare to a pandemic.
Solvitur Ambulando

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #34 on: 21:39:39, 26/04/20 »
It is perfectly reasonable for the vulnerable to shield themselves from the virus. My parents are in their 80s and have underlying health issues - my dad has been identified as being particularly at risk. It is also reasonable for those in isolated or rural areas to be unhappy about an influx of incomers that may spread the disease or put additional strain on limited resources and infrastructure. Self isolation has slowed the progress of the disease and the less people that have it, the lower the chance of infection and the higher the chance some type of effective treatment may be found. To suggest that we should just let people succumb to the disease in the summer rather than wait for the flu season is ridiculous. If some one is shielding, they are also being protected from flu.

Toxicbunny

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #35 on: 22:12:14, 08/05/20 »
Where I live under normal circumstances there are only half a dozen people walk the area we are a very small village. Since lockdown we've been under siege from new walkers  joggers and cyclists. They are disrespectful of the countryside.  A few landowners have ploughed paths,   Slurried the paths , covered the PROW signs with bin bags and sawn stiles off. It's a military manoeuvre now walking my dog. A minority of outsiders have spoilt it for every one.  The only good thing now is they have got the hint and stopped coming. The litter has reduced as have the crap apples and disposable glove littering. I've never known anything like it. Social distancing does not bother me in the least as my village is very quiet and I live on the edge of it.  However i could not social distance as it was like the M25. There is no pathway past my house and since lockdown the crop fields around me have been full of these idiots so I sympathise with the farmers. As for the police I have seen one police car in my area since lockdown. I realise everyone wants to walk but they should show respect for the area. We have also had a lot of fly tipping too since the tips were closed. The locals took it in their own hands to stop people trespassing.
« Last Edit: 22:15:58, 08/05/20 by Toxicbunny »

barewirewalker

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #36 on: 10:09:57, 09/05/20 »
There can be little doubt, in the minds of many, since the 1950's we have bred several generation of slobs
Since lockdown we've been under siege from new walkers  joggers and cyclists. They are disrespectful of the countryside.
But I wonder where this disrespect comes from, the countryside is not as tidy as it was in the 1940's and 50's. But much of this slobbery is due to the occupiers of the countryside and at the same time there has become a very much sharper divide between private land and the access network.

A few landowners have ploughed paths,   Slurried the paths , covered the PROW signs with bin bags and sawn stiles off. It's a military manoeuvre now walking my dog.
Since the landowner has muscled in on agriculture because of tax advantages, the countryside has become a far more untidy place. Even some of the land management has become more slovenly.
A minority of outsiders have spoilt it for every one.
The majority, who could take far more active role in countryside security and monitor public misbehavior, if they were shown the respect they deserve. Why should we stand for being identified jointly with the the minority and more to the point, is it all fault of a privileged minority that we cannot work for the betterment of society as a whole.

Perhaps the people, who the previous poster accuses of being disrespectful have not had the chance to be shown how to respect the countryside by good example.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Toxicbunny

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #37 on: 11:46:13, 09/05/20 »

Perhaps the people, who the previous poster accuses of being disrespectful have not had the chance to be shown how to respect the countryside by good example.
Unfortunately you can't educate stupid. Signage saying pick up dog poo plus dog bins are there. Signs saying dogs on leash. Signs saying pick up litter , close gates , no trespassing. Some people are just plain disrespectful of the countryside and spoil it for others.

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #38 on: 12:39:50, 09/05/20 »
My usual path along the River Don was blocked off today with a gate and some fencing. The farmer had put up a makeshift sign saying “Stop. No Entry”. There were cows in the field next to the river, but there is a bank between the path and field that may allow access for the cows to the river.

WhitstableDave

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #39 on: 16:38:21, 09/05/20 »
If I were to find my way blocked on a PRoW that I had every right to walk, then I'd go around the obstruction if possible or remove it if not. However, if there was an easy alternative, I'd probably use that instead to avoid a possible confrontation. In either case, I'd take photos to include with my report to the Kent County Council.

Toxicbunny

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #40 on: 16:42:11, 09/05/20 »
If I were to find my way blocked on a PRoW that I had every right to walk, then I'd go around the obstruction if possible or remove it if not. However, if there was an easy alternative, I'd probably use that instead to avoid a possible confrontation. In either case, I'd take photos to include with my report to the Kent County Council.
This is what everyone should do if a PRoW is purposely blocked. Also report to pathwatch. However councils rights of way officials depending on where you live are hard to get hold of at present.

Skip

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #41 on: 17:04:43, 09/05/20 »
Q: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
A: Yes, a few are in this corner of Warks. Several of us have reported the worst examples to the County Council.
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Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #42 on: 17:06:10, 09/05/20 »
I don’t think the path I was following is a PRoW, but I live in Scotland and we have different access rules here. Looking at the legislation and Access Code, I couldn’t find any obvious legal reason for preventing access to the path. I do have a photograph, but only a poor one on my phone.

Davidedgarjones

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #43 on: 20:10:37, 09/05/20 »
We had a run in with a farmer who had put up a closed sign at a PRoW, with no suggested way around it. He became abusive to the extent that I reported the incident to the police who have cautioned the farmer. I also reported it to the local authority and the Peak and Northern. Sign now removed. Walkers need to insist that PRoWs are respected. I have sympathy with farmers who have to deal with anti-social behaviour but that is a separate issue. (Ironically, my wife, called by the farmer "an aggressive old [censored]" and worse, comes from a farming family.)
Dave

barewirewalker

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Re: Are landowners taking advantage of CV to block paths ?
« Reply #44 on: 09:34:49, 10/05/20 »
I don’t think the path I was following is a PRoW, but I live in Scotland and we have different access rules here. Looking at the legislation and Access Code, I couldn’t find any obvious legal reason for preventing access to the path. I do have a photograph, but only a poor one on my phone.
In the context of Scottish Law, I would suggest, the landowner is at fault by not stating a reason, as you have a legal right of responsible access. If it is clear that there is a path that is being used then there must be a destination. This goes to the root of the whole access argument, landowners are not required by grant of freehold to be aware how the position of their holding affects the community at large.
As regards;
Unfortunately you can't educate stupid. Signage saying pick up dog poo plus dog bins are there. Signs saying dogs on leash. Signs saying pick up litter , close gates , no trespassing. Some people are just plain disrespectful of the countryside and spoil it for others.
Why try to educate 'stupid', to further the arguments of those, who would restrict access, by joining with them. The need for improvements in the footpath network needs examples and creative reasoning to promote itself. Landowners have yet to realize that leisure is a powerful modern force that replaces 'the ways to work and shortcuts of yesteryear'. Perhaps some of this misbehavior is a symptom of the restrictions imposed by those living in a bygone age.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.