Author Topic: Ivescar Ingleton death  (Read 1528 times)

gunwharfman

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #15 on: 20:49:56, 01/06/20 »
If I get the chance when hiking with a rucksack on my back, and I have on more than one occasion and need to make a fast exit, my technique is to just drop my rucksack on the floor and quickly leg it to a style or other safety. It demands instant decision making but I've managed to avoid at least two lots of crazy cows over the years! I just get to safety and wait, when the cows wander off I just walk back and retrieve my rucksack. My motto is, never try to run with a rucksack on your back!

I first learned the technique when I worked in psychiatric hospitals, know when to go forward, know when to back off, and know if necessary when to run!

Dodgylegs

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #16 on: 21:56:13, 01/06/20 »
So sorry to hear of another horrible incident involving cows.


I have been chased a number of times by cows, very nervous of them and avoid groups around gates & styes by doing diversions where possible. But it's not only cows, horses! One near to me, a stallion, is well known for being dangerous, especially for biting people! Crossing a field up Weardale, a couple of horses kept running in front of me with their legs ready to kick out, causiously turned and left, abandoning the route. Bitten by an Alsatian on a nearby deserted beach. Finally a couple of farmers wives I met, walking through woods were chased by pigs! They sat on top of a stone wall for almost two hours before they left!!


My cousin, a farmer laughs at me when I tell him the chase tales, that is until a vet went to a nearby farm. They did not seek out the farmer going straight to the barn where the animal was, the cow was spooked and seriously crushed the vet.


Today had an excellent walk through an almost deserted area in hills North East of Durham, above the opencast site, superb views, All the cows & calves were relaxing in the sun, but never the less I was watching them and kept checking an escape route!

snaderson

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #17 on: 08:18:24, 02/06/20 »
A sad story at a sad time.

At the bank holiday weekend I went for my first Peak District walk in two months and was followed across a couple of fields by small herds of bullocks. Like ninthace I just felt they were being curious (no dog), even though they dashed about a little. I didn't feel threatened. Whenever I turned round to look at them they all stopped and only started again when I started to move, like we were playing a kiddies' game! I fully sympathise with anyone who might feel nervous though.

SteamyTea

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #18 on: 09:20:06, 02/06/20 »
A sad story at a sad time.

At the bank holiday weekend I went for my first Peak District walk in two months and was followed across a couple of fields by small herds of bullocks. Like ninthace I just felt they were being curious (no dog), even though they dashed about a little. I didn't feel threatened. Whenever I turned round to look at them they all stopped and only started again when I started to move, like we were playing a kiddies' game! I fully sympathise with anyone who might feel nervous though.
Quite often they are trained to follow a person holding a bucket of feed.  After a while they will just follow anyone as they assume it is feeding time.
Having done some research work on dairy farms, I tend to steer clear of cattle, of all sorts.  Every farmer I dealt with had several horror stories.
We would not walk on a ferry car deck, in a storm, if we knew some of the cars had not used their handbrakes or left them in gear/park for autos.
It is also the farmer's living, I don't want people I don't know walking past me when I am working, and then sticking a camera into what I am making.
I don't use emojis, irony is better, you decide

Toxicbunny

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #19 on: 11:50:04, 02/06/20 »
How do you know there was a dog involved ninthace?  I thought there might be, but couldn't see anything on the news report?
I don't think there was a dog involved.  I think they are just issuing guidance to dog walkers
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/01/man-82-killed-in-attack-by-herd-of-cows-in-yorkshire-dales
Either way I've been chased with and without a dog. Whenever going through a cow field always be aware.
The last time I was chased was last year over near Hadrians Wall . Thankfully I climbed over the wall to get out the way.  The time before that was a herd of belted galloway over north Yorkshire moors on two occasions and over Osmotherley.  Many of my walks now I will tresspass to get around cows as they are unpredictable.

ninthace

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #20 on: 12:04:55, 02/06/20 »
According to the national press, a dog was invloved.
Solvitur Ambulando

One F

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #21 on: 12:32:55, 02/06/20 »
The following is a copy and paste from the CRO report on the incident:-


"Members had just returned from incident no 20 when YAS asked for assistance again, after a walker (m, 82), out with his wife and two terriers, was seriously injured by cattle near the bridge over Winterscales Beck. When the first CRO members arrived, paramedics were attempting CPR. When a second road ambulance and an air ambulance arrived, CRO members withdrew.  FATAL.
The walker’s wife sustained a leg wound and was taken to hospital, while one of their terriers required veterinary treatment."


So 2 terriers involved and from local reports the dogs were on leads.

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Murphy

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #22 on: 14:04:03, 02/06/20 »
My heart goes out to those concerned with this awful tradegy. 


I am always intrigued by the advice of those who have never experienced issues with cattle and I do accept the advice is based on their own experiences but please do not be led into a false sense of security.  Serious incidents can involve even the most experienced of us with or without dogs and
I refer you back to a previous thread on this topic  "Cow Discussion.......again" 37617-90 - not too long ago.   

Toxicbunny

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #23 on: 14:17:01, 02/06/20 »
The following is a copy and paste from the CRO report on the incident:-


"Members had just returned from incident no 20 when YAS asked for assistance again, after a walker (m, 82), out with his wife and two terriers, was seriously injured by cattle near the bridge over Winterscales Beck. When the first CRO members arrived, paramedics were attempting CPR. When a second road ambulance and an air ambulance arrived, CRO members withdrew.  FATAL.
The walker’s wife sustained a leg wound and was taken to hospital, while one of their terriers required veterinary treatment."


So 2 terriers involved and from local reports the dogs were on leads.

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Regardless of dogs involved in many instances they are not. I would not think it would be necessarily safe to walk through a cow field just because I had no dog with me.  The same goes if they had calves or not.
Every year there are deaths from cows personally I think more should be done to protect walkers on RoW. Yes farmers have the right to graze livestock but I've lost count of the amount of time I have been chased. I always walk with a stick now. The farmers near me never go to feed the cows alone they go in pairs.

ninthace

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #24 on: 16:49:19, 02/06/20 »
Perhaps I have been lucky but I have never been chased by cows.  I have met all sorts from the unflappable to the downright hacked off about something.  I have walked through fields with bulls, cows, cows with calves and young cows on their own.  I have been ignored by experts and I have them come running at me and even the odd youngster that wanted to take me on.
You can usually get a measure of the mood in the field as soon as they spot you.  Most will just clock you and carry on or stand and watch.
If I can I stay, I stay out of the herd space as I go about my business but I will talk to them, if I get close, to reassure them.  Cows with calves at foot require a bit more watching but they are not looking for trouble so I try not to present a threat.  If they are in the way, I will gently chivvy them along making sure they have somewhere to go so they do not feel cornered.
Young bullocks are the worst.  They can be curious bordering on aggressive.  I had such an encounter of Sunday in what we took to be an empty field and we were a fair way across before they saw us.  They came trotting over to investigate and they were fairly big and intimidating.  Had we run, I have no doubt they would have thought it was a great game but I am built more for comfort than speed and it was a very big field.  We just stood still and let them approach us.  Once we had met, they stopped and formed a ring mostly 6 to 8 feet away with the odd head toss.  I talked to them and, if one tried it on, I told it off so we came to a sort of understanding,  Then we made our way slowly to the hedge so that it was easier to keep an eye on them.  Once there, it was a simple matter to walk along the hedge to the gate as they followed, making sure any overly curious individuals were put in their place.
It easier to say than do, but if you stay calm and adopt a confident attitude, even if you don't feel that way, you can stay in control.  The secret is to take charge while not being perceived as a threat  - to that end, if you have dog then fields with bullocks and calves are a no no in my book. 
Solvitur Ambulando

WhitstableDave

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #25 on: 18:58:38, 02/06/20 »
My heart goes out to those concerned with this awful tradegy. 

I am always intrigued by the advice of those who have never experienced issues with cattle and I do accept the advice is based on their own experiences but please do not be led into a false sense of security.  Serious incidents can involve even the most experienced of us with or without dogs and
I refer you back to a previous thread on this topic  "Cow Discussion.......again" 37617-90 - not too long ago.

I agree with you and might even go further... I'm often dismayed by what some people who have always been fortunate in their encounters with cattle have to say on the matter.

I think it's important to realise that many who read what is written on forums are looking for information or advice. I accept my view might be a minority one, but I believe that we who contribute to this forum have a responsibility to those who visit.

I wonder if my approach to the issue of cattle in fields is familiar. Put simply, as time has gone on I've become ever more wary about cattle. At first, I didn't think much about crossing a field with cattle. It wasn't a problem - 10 times, 20 times, perhaps 50 times, I don't know. No issues. Then one day I crossed a field where a herd was standing about 50 yards away from the line of my path. I kept an eye on them, but the shape of the field meant they were out of sight for the final few yards before I reached the stile. Just as I climbed the stile to leave the field, a cow thundered past bellowing. I've no idea why; I hadn't seen any calves and I'd never experienced anything like that before. I knew I could have been trampled.

Like some others here, I believe I know how to deal with cattle in fields. I stay alert; I'm wary. I can do all of the things people advise, but if I see an alternative to crossing the field I'll take it. Nowadays, only if I see no alternative will I make my way around or through cattle. I don't know how many fields I've crossed without incident, but it's a lot. I've also looked at the situation and decided that crossing a particular field would be too risky. On one occasion, my wife and I abandoned the route we wanted to follow because we judged it to be dangerous.

Something that rarely, if ever, gets mentioned is the location, but perhaps this is relevant and may help to explain why some people come across to me as blasé. In wide open spaces such as moorland or hills, cattle - even the scary-looking ones with the huge horns - tend to be (in my experience!) docile and no problem at all. In smaller fields, I've seen a herd of bullocks run away from a large noisy group of ramblers just as I was wondering about the best route to take between the animals - so perhaps being in a group is safer than walking solo.

In my experience, the most challenging situation is where cattle are confined to a relatively small space. I hope this photo illustrates what I mean...



This is the time I mentioned earlier when my wife and I decided to go back the way we'd come. There's a fast-flowing river to the right and the exit from the triangular field ahead is out of sight in the far corner. The cattle moved towards us as we approached. We weighed up the situation and decided not to chance it.

To summarise: I don't believe there is a technique or approach which, if only people would use, will always allow for a safe crossing. Yes, perhaps 99 times out of 100 all will be well and you might even convince yourself you know what you're doing and you might even share your wisdom with others. But please, accept that one day something unpredictable might occur and playing cool, calm and collected or (heaven forbid) being macho isn't going to help.

Be cautious; be wary; be aware... and be prepared to go another way or chicken out altogether if you judge it to be the sensible option.



Toxicbunny

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Re: Ivescar Ingleton death
« Reply #26 on: 20:08:22, 02/06/20 »
I agree if I'm at home I have the joy of going through a cow field everyday. Twice on a morning and twice on a night. They are unpredictable and big beasts. I wont risk it and many a time I have to detour. I would rather detour than risk it.  My house is on other side of the cows and even though I have to detour an extra mile and a half I would rather do that than chance it. Advice says dont run as far as I'm concerned if a herd of  cows come hurtling towards me I'm out of that field pronto by the nearest means.  I only cross if they are well away from me.