Author Topic: Cheap meals  (Read 1841 times)

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #30 on: 22:42:17, 21/07/20 »
It always amuses me that kilocalories are  called calories!
It allows dieters to think they are taking less energy than they actually are.

Theo Frum

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #31 on: 00:26:00, 22/07/20 »
It allows dieters to think they are taking less energy than they actually are.
It gets a lot more confusing than that.


The small calorie (spelt with a small c) or gram calorie is the energy required to raise 1g of water 1 deg C.
The large Calorie (spelt with a large C) or food calorie is the energy required to raise 1kg of water 1 deg C.


So 1000 calories = 1 Calorie = 1kcal.


But the calorie was defined before they discovered that the specific heat of water isn't a constant, and the definition of it depends on the temperature it's measured at, so there are several more different types of calorie:


4 degree calorie: energy to heat water from 3.5 to 4.5
15 degree calorie: energy to heat water from 14.5 to 15.5
20 degree calorie: energy to heat water from 19.5 to 20.5
mean calorie: a hundredth of the energy to heat water from 0 to 100
international steam table calorie: 4.1868J


No wonder it's an obsolete unit.


April

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #32 on: 19:13:16, 22/07/20 »
I contacted Batchelors/Premier Foods to ask why I couldn't find Beanfeast in supermarkets. Here is the reply

"Hi April

Thank you for contacting us about Batchelors Beanfeast. We’re sorry you’re having trouble finding it in your local stores. Unfortunately, this product has now been discontinued. 

We regularly review our range and if a product is not selling well we carefully consider discontinuing it, which is what’s happened in this instance. We appreciate all consumer feedback and therefore we’ve passed your comments onto the Brand team for their information.

Currently, we don’t have any plans to reintroduce this.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact us and we hope you will find a product in our range that you will enjoy just as much.

Kind regards"
"Who would've thought...... you are light and darkness coming through" words by Tim Armstrong

Birdman

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #33 on: 10:14:25, 23/07/20 »

I never buy the specialised backpacker meals. Not only are they way too expensive, their sizing is wrong too and they are too heavy and bulky for the calories they offer. Many of them are in the 700 kcal range, so that is not enough. You would need two packs for a meal. On the other hand, if I get two Batchelors (or similar) "Pasta & Sauce" packs in the supermarket at £0.50 each, this approaches 1000kcal, which I consider the minimum for a meal. These two are still smaller and way cheaper than backpackers meals. Unfortunately, they have recently decreased the sizes from 120g to 99g, so often I mix in some extra dry pasta to get above 1000kcal. I'm also adding extra salt when it is hot.


In other countries they have similar meals at low prices. Knorr Sides in the USA, I used Woolworths own brand in Australia, etc.


For breakfast and snacking I just use a trailmix of peanuts, raisins and most important: chocolate! That ingredient is important because it keeps you eating and you don't get bored of it. M&M's are great for that because they handle the heat quite well, as long as you don't crush them. Sometimes almonds, sunflower seeds, etc too. Especially in America they sell excellent trailmixes with delicious ingredients. One of my favourites had almonds, raspberries, white chocolate and black chocolate. Yummie!


One of the things I learnt is that on long distance walks your body just wants the calories and the salts. Therefore, stuff that you wouldn't touch at home tastes delicious on the trail! On the PCT I lived for 5 months on just Knorr Sides, trail mix and vitamine pills. I never got bored and never got sick! After the first 1000 miles I was eating 5000 kcal per day. That's a lot of food to carry, but it is what your body needs when it adjusts to walking all day. However, in the first ~3 weeks you can still get away with half that amount. On my WHW + Cape Wrath Trail walk (3 weeks) last year I lived on just 2750 kcal per day and that was still fine, but had it been longer then hunger and weakness would start to set in. On the Larapinta (Australia) last year I was eating 2600 kcal/ day for this 12 day walk. I could get away with so little because it was the first walk of my trip and that was good because I didn't resupply so I had to carry 13 days food from the start (I always carry 1 day extra for flexibility). But with the food I had this was only 573 gram per day (Batchelors Pasta&Sauce + trailmix, about £3 for an entire day worth of food) :)
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

Theo Frum

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #34 on: 13:37:05, 23/07/20 »
On my WHW + Cape Wrath Trail walk (3 weeks) last year I lived on just 2750 kcal per day


I'm surprised you could get away with that, I couldn't, I grind to a halt within a day or two if I'm not careful to replace all the energy I use. I remember when I walked the Pembrokeshire coast path I set off without eating enough, and on the second day I set out to do 20m from Newport to Pwll Deri, but gave up half way at Fishguard. After cramming loads of extra calories that evening I was easily able to make up the extra 10 miles the following day.

Birdman

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #35 on: 14:18:56, 23/07/20 »

I'm surprised you could get away with that, I couldn't, I grind to a halt within a day or two if I'm not careful to replace all the energy I use.


Well, 2750 kcal is still slightly more than the ~2300 kcal/day I usually eat at home when not hiking.
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

SteamyTea

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #36 on: 14:49:25, 23/07/20 »
5,000 kCal is around 21 MJ, or 5.8 kWh.
If it was electricity it would be about £1.
If gasoline, it would cost about £0.75
It is also around the same amount of energy that a Tour de France cyclist eats each day, for the 3 weeks of the race.
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Birdman

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #37 on: 15:18:42, 23/07/20 »
5,000 kCal is around 21 MJ, or 5.8 kWh.
If it was electricity it would be about £1.
If gasoline, it would cost about £0.75
It is also around the same amount of energy that a Tour de France cyclist eats each day, for the 3 weeks of the race.


I read somewhere that 5000 kcal is also about the maximum that your body can digest. If you eat more, your body simply cannot absorb it. In other words, you are simply going to lose body weight. I lost 9 kg on my PCT hike (from 68 to 59kg), despite eating 5000 kcal/day.


However, I do suspect that the specialised food that the Tour de France runners are fed is more efficiently absorbed than the peanuts and stuff that I am munching on. I wonder how many calories come out unused because of not chewing enough etc.
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

SteamyTea

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #38 on: 15:51:27, 23/07/20 »

I read somewhere that 5000 kcal is also about the maximum that your body can digest. If you eat more, your body simply cannot absorb it. In other words, you are simply going to lose body weight. I lost 9 kg on my PCT hike (from 68 to 59kg), despite eating 5000 kcal/day.


However, I do suspect that the specialised food that the Tour de France runners are fed is more efficiently absorbed than the peanuts and stuff that I am munching on. I wonder how many calories come out unused because of not chewing enough etc.
I read this a couple of years ago, was very good.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1472921704


My experience of long distance cycling, in hot weather is; not much comes out.


Energy in food is calculated using a Bomb Calorimeter, a great bit of kit.
In essence, all it does is burn some food and see how much the temperature rises.  By knowing the properties of all the important stuff, the energy can be calculated.
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Theo Frum

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #39 on: 16:16:53, 23/07/20 »
5,000 kCal is around 21 MJ, or 5.8 kWh.
If it was electricity it would be about £1.
If gasoline, it would cost about £0.75
[/font]
At home, my diet averages about £1.10/1000kcal (2019 prices), when I'm away from home it's a bit more because a lot of it has to come from small village shops (~£1.39/1000kcal at 2011 prices).


[/font]It is also around the same amount of energy that a Tour de France cyclist eats each day, for the 3 weeks of the race.
They're doing about 80m/day, I think it'll work out nearer 6200, I average 4400kcal/day cycling 52m/day.

Theo Frum

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #40 on: 16:19:49, 23/07/20 »

I read somewhere that 5000 kcal is also about the maximum that your body can digest. If you eat more, your body simply cannot absorb it. In other words, you are simply going to lose body weight. I lost 9 kg on my PCT hike (from 68 to 59kg), despite eating 5000 kcal/day.


However, I do suspect that the specialised food that the Tour de France runners are fed is more efficiently absorbed than the peanuts and stuff that I am munching on. I wonder how many calories come out unused because of not chewing enough etc.


It depends on how long you're trying to do it for, you can maintain 5 or 6 times BMR for short periods, but only about 2.5 times BMR if you're exercising indefinitely. See Thurber here: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaaw0341/tab-pdf

Birdman

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #41 on: 17:10:07, 23/07/20 »
I read this a couple of years ago, was very good.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1472921704


My experience of long distance cycling, in hot weather is; not much comes out.


Energy in food is calculated using a Bomb Calorimeter, a great bit of kit.
In essence, all it does is burn some food and see how much the temperature rises.  By knowing the properties of all the important stuff, the energy can be calculated.


Yes, but the thing is: some stuff like fibre is indigestible by your body, but you can still set fire to it. So you overestimate the energy availability to your body (though I'm not sure how significant this is). In practice you cannot just optimise on the nutrition properties, it also has to be attainable, transportable and imperishable when you carry it around for a week in the heat. 
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

Birdman

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #42 on: 17:16:31, 23/07/20 »

It depends on how long you're trying to do it for, you can maintain 5 or 6 times BMR for short periods, but only about 2.5 times BMR if you're exercising indefinitely. See Thurber here: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaaw0341/tab-pdf


I'm talking months, so I would be converging on this 2.5 times BMR. Considering I eat about 2300kcal/day at home, the 5000 kcal I mentioned seems to be in the right ballpark.
My travel and walking reports: https://www.hikingbirdman.com/

richardh1905

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #43 on: 16:21:01, 24/07/20 »
I never buy the specialised backpacker meals. Not only are they way too expensive, their sizing is wrong too and they are too heavy and bulky for the calories they offer. Many of them are in the 700 kcal range, so that is not enough. You would need two packs for a meal. On the other hand, if I get two Batchelors (or similar) "Pasta & Sauce" packs in the supermarket at £0.50 each, this approaches 1000kcal, which I consider the minimum for a meal. These two are still smaller and way cheaper than backpackers meals. Unfortunately, they have recently decreased the sizes from 120g to 99g, so often I mix in some extra dry pasta to get above 1000kcal. I'm also adding extra salt when it is hot....snip...


One of the things I learnt is that on long distance walks your body just wants the calories and the salts. Therefore, stuff that you wouldn't touch at home tastes delicious on the trail! On the PCT I lived for 5 months on just Knorr Sides, trail mix and vitamine pills. I never got bored and never got sick! After the first 1000 miles I was eating 5000 kcal per day. That's a lot of food to carry, but it is what your body needs when it adjusts to walking all day. However, in the first ~3 weeks you can still get away with half that amount. On my WHW + Cape Wrath Trail walk (3 weeks) last year I lived on just 2750 kcal per day and that was still fine, but had it been longer then hunger and weakness would start to set in. On the Larapinta (Australia) last year I was eating 2600 kcal/ day for this 12 day walk. I could get away with so little because it was the first walk of my trip and that was good because I didn't resupply so I had to carry 13 days food from the start (I always carry 1 day extra for flexibility). But with the food I had this was only 573 gram per day (Batchelors Pasta&Sauce + trailmix, about £3 for an entire day worth of food) :)


I find this very interesting, birdman - thanks for posting. I'm not into long treks, a night or two of wild camping is my norm, but I am aware that I carry way too much food, on my last few solo trips, probably around 5000 kcal for a 24 hour trip.
« Last Edit: 16:24:19, 24/07/20 by richardh1905 »
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Booga

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Re: Cheap meals
« Reply #44 on: 09:49:53, 25/07/20 »
All my food is of the "just add hot water" variety to cut down on the amount of cooking gear I need to carry and I usually decant it into ziplock bags and just use one bowl to reduce the amount of rubbish I need to carry out. Typical foods I use are:
Couscous (flavoured or plain) with other things added like soya chunks, a bit of vegetable stock cube, Lidl's Italian range does some nice pouches of semi dried vegetables which are really nice to add to camping food.
Rice noodles available in bundles from Sainsbury's world food section, then pour in a cup-a-soup style sachet and again add chunks/veg/stock cube etc to it.
Pot Noodles and similar things, Itsu do some really quality ones, again add things to them if you want, put them in ziplock bags and recycle the plastic pots.
Instant porridge pots are available in most supermarkets, Tesco do some OK own brand ones in the freefrom section, add sugar or dried fruit/seeds/nuts etc to make them more interesting.
When using bothies (if they ever re-open) I take a cardboard pot sold as soup pots on ebay (or use an old Ben & Jerry's style ice cream pot, same thing) to eat out of. As it's cardboard it can be burnt on the fire afterwards and is one less thing to carry out.