Author Topic: Wild camping  (Read 1474 times)

April

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #15 on: 07:04:15, 22/07/20 »
As for spending money in the area.  That is very laudable but there is nothing in the balance sheet that will differentiate your purchases from any other visitor sale.  I suspect sales to wild campers and seasoned walkers are a spit in the bucket in this regard.

We may not spend as much money on accommodation ourselves but we do still spend a lot of money in the NP. That was my point in reply 3, the park may end up losing this revenue if people go elsewhere to wild camp. A lot of people book a week in a cottage in the NP but like to spend a couple of nights wild camping during that week. They also might be put off coming.

Yeah we spent £500 one day on 2 rucksacks  :o

 :o How much? I don't think it was quite as much as that. If I have time I may tot up how much money we have spent in the NP say in the last year. It would probably be more than a couple's annual one week holiday in the NP.
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Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #16 on: 07:19:51, 22/07/20 »

What we need is a protest to make the law the same as in Scotland.  O0


Given the problems that we are experiencing here in the Lake District, I think a free for all on camping is the last thing that we want. 


Responsible wild camping is, and will continue, to tolerated by the LDNP, as well as other bodies like the National Trust.   


It's the people who turn up, erect a tent (sometimes even right next to 'No Camping' signs), make fires, then get up the next day and walk away leaving behind a right old mess for someone else to clean up.   The only way to deal with those sort of people, is to fine them.   If our camping laws were the same as the Scottish ones, then the Police would be stripped off their powers to do so.






 

richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #17 on: 09:38:28, 22/07/20 »
Responsible wild camping is, and will continue, to tolerated by the LDNP, as well as other bodies like the National Trust. 
Do you speak from a position of authority on this, Lakeland Lorry?

Quote
It's the people who turn up, erect a tent (sometimes even right next to 'No Camping' signs), make fires, then get up the next day and walk away leaving behind a right old mess for someone else to clean up.   The only way to deal with those sort of people, is to fine them.   If our camping laws were the same as the Scottish ones, then the Police would be stripped off their powers to do so.
True, but a blanket ban is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. In Scotland there are sometimes problems, but where these have been particularly severe, as around Loch Lomond, a localised ban is in force. But responsible campers are still free to camp on the hill - in general the litter lout campers can't be bothered to walk more than a few hundred yards from the road.
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richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #18 on: 10:08:51, 22/07/20 »
The National Trust seem to have a more enlightened attitude towards wild camping:

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/wild-camping-in-the-lake-district
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Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #19 on: 10:47:58, 22/07/20 »
The National Trust seem to have a more enlightened attitude towards wild camping:

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/wild-camping-in-the-lake-district


The guidelines from the LDNPA regarding Wild Camping is:  [size=78%]https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/where-to-stay/wild-camping[/size]


"Wild camping is not permitted anywhere in the Lake District without prior permission from the landowner. As the National Park Authority we do not have the power to allow camping on private land and we do not permit camping on the small amount of land that we own."


This is because the LDNPA own less than 4% of the land in the Lake District.  The rest of the land is owned by the National Trust (approx 25%), United Utilities, Forestry Commission and private landowners.   I lot of people are surprised by this.   


https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/caringfor/land-ownership-in-the-lake-district


So this explains why the National Trust have a different stance regarding allowing wild camping, because they are a landowner.






Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #20 on: 11:05:51, 22/07/20 »
Just spotted this, which was posted by Cumbria Police on their FB page:


Our officers are working alongside partner agencies including the Lake District National Park Authority, United Utilities and the National Trust in a joint operation to tackle anti-social behaviour that has been associated with camping during the Covid-19 pandemic.
Camping on the Lake District fells (and England generally) is not expressly permitted in law without landowners’ permission, but responsible hill walkers who leave no trace after staying overnight on the high fells (known as wild camping) have long been tolerated as part of outdoor adventure in upland areas of the country. A number of bye-laws are in place to deal with any problematic camping.
For more details on wild camping, please visit:
https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/…/where-to-stay/wild-camping[/font]
In recent weeks, there has been a large increase in the numbers of campers and campervans on private land in the Lake District National Park and unfortunately this has often been associated with the dumping of equipment, littering, fires and criminal damage to trees and fences. This unacceptable and anti-social behaviour has typically taken place on roadsides and lakeshores but has occasionally been experienced higher on the fells.
Partners will be carrying out joint patrols throughout the national park over the summer holiday period, aimed at preventing the setting of fires and damage to the environment.
Assistant Chief Constable Andrew Slattery said: “All public agencies in Cumbria welcome the return of visitors to the Lake District and encourage all those who seek to explore the area responsibly. Camp sites are now open across the national park and we encourage visitors to book pitches ahead of their visits.
“The Lake District has a history of tolerance and is a welcoming place for visitors but we must maintain a balance between the wishes of individuals to enjoy the outdoors, the needs of local communities and the fragility of our landscapes. The impact of individual actions may seem relatively inconsequential but visitors are asked to consider the cumulative effect of their activities, whether it is fires, barbecues, littering, camping, parking, off-road driving or any other activity that could be detrimental the place and those who live and visit here.
“The anti-social camping that we have seen in recent months across the Lake District does not adhere to the long established Wild Camping ethos of responsible hill walkers in the UK and we will work with landowners and other agencies to prevent and deter this type of unreasonable behaviour.
“Having worked closely together throughout the pandemic, the Constabulary and its partners will continue to maintain efforts to protect and preserve the unique Lake District environment. We will not tolerate the damage or destruction of Lakeland habitats or heritage and will take robust action where necessary.”
Caroline Holden, Land Agent at United Utilities, added: “The reservoir catchment land at Thirlmere and Haweswater acts as the first stage of the treatment process for the clean drinking water we all rely on. If trees are destroyed and human waste and litter are left discarded it all has the potential to pollute our precious water resources, as well as being unsightly and dangerous for those enjoying the countryside.
“We welcome courteous day visitors but camping is not permitted. All we ask is that people follow the countryside code – cause no damage and leave nothing behind.”



SteamyTea

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #21 on: 11:07:30, 22/07/20 »
So this explains why the National Trust have a different stance regarding allowing wild camping, because they are a landowner.
Shame, if only they could find a way to charge for it. Maybe they could tack it onto the car park fees.
Or even price a coffee at over 2 quid, that should do it.
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richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #22 on: 15:04:03, 22/07/20 »
Responsible wild camping is, and will continue, to tolerated by the LDNP, as well as other bodies like the National Trust.


I would still like to know in what capacity you state this, Lakeland Lorry.


Just for clarity. :)
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Lakeland Lorry

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #23 on: 16:54:49, 22/07/20 »

I would still like to know in what capacity you state this, Lakeland Lorry.


Just for clarity. :)


Is this some sort of interrogation?


I can confirm that I don't speak in any official capacity on behalf of the LDNP, nor the National Trust, but only as someone who is involved with both organisations in my role as a Voluntary Ranger.


Whether the current problems we've been having with 'fly camping' will change things in the long term, who knows.  But, for now, I certainly haven't heard of any changes being announced.[size=78%] [/size]






richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #24 on: 17:08:49, 22/07/20 »

Is this some sort of interrogation?

I can confirm that I don't speak in any official capacity on behalf of the LDNP, nor the National Trust, but only as someone who is involved with both organisations in my role as a Voluntary Ranger.

Whether the current problems we've been having with 'fly camping' will change things in the long term, who knows.  But, for now, I certainly haven't heard of any changes being announced.[size=78%] [/size]


Thank you for your reply. No interrogation - I was just wondering under what capacity you were answering.  :)


PS - I like the term 'Fly Camping'.
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April

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #25 on: 18:20:20, 22/07/20 »
On grough

https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2020/07/22/lakeland-police-step-up-patrols-to-tackle-anti-social-camping-in-national-park

The last few paragraphs (below) are of some comfort and confirm what LL posted earlier, thanks LL  :)

"The Lake District National Park Authority guidance on wild camping in the area says: “Camping away from an organised campsite is called wild camping. Legally wherever you camp you must have the prior permission of a landowner to camp on their land.

“If you do have express permission for the landowner and choose to wild camp, you should always:
•Camp above the highest fell wall, well away from towns and villages
•Leave no litter – this includes not burying any litter and removing other people
•Don’t light any fires, even if there is evidence that fires might have been lit
•Stay for only one night
•Keep groups very small – only one or two tents
•Camp as unobtrusively as possible with inconspicuous tents that blend in
•Leave the campsite as you would want to find it
•Carry out everything you carried in
•Carry out tampons and sanitary towels. Burying them doesn’t work as animals dig them up again
•Choose a dry pitch rather than digging drainage ditches around a tent or moving boulders
•Perform toilet duties at least 30m (100 ft) from water and bury the results with a trowel at all times; help protect the environment.

“Wherever you pitch, please remember that the landowners or their representatives have the legal right to order you to break camp and move on.”
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richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #26 on: 18:40:48, 22/07/20 »
For completeness, here is the guidance from the National Trust website:

"If you plan to wild camp or backpack camp, please head onto the higher fells, and follow these simple guidelines. You’ll still have a great experience, but this will minimise your impact on the environment. Planning and preparation is essential for this type of activity. This includes having the right equipment and navigational skills to survive safely for a night away from civilisation. We'd also ask you to follow this guidance when visiting us in a campervan.
Travel light - A well prepared backpack contains enough equipment for a basic overnight stay. If this isn’t enough and you need more stuff, that’s an indication an official campsite will be better.
Stay out of sight - Away from any residences or other wild campers. Use a small and lightweight tent that blends into the landscape – part of the enjoyment really is experiencing unspoilt and vast landscapes.
Maintain a safe distance from all water courses to prevent any contamination.
Stay for only one night, and tread lightly. Use a stove box instead of ground fires. Arrive late in the day (dusk) and move on early the next day (dawn). Need to keep warm? Please take in any wood you plan to burn, and take away any un-burnt wood.
Help us in looking after the Lakes – take all litter home with you.This includes all human waste. If you need a bin or a toilet, this kind of camping isn’t for you."


This website will tell you which areas are owned by the NT.
https://map.whoownsengland.org/


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richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #27 on: 07:09:26, 24/07/20 »
Found this excellent article on the BMC website:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/wild-camping-worries


..and this leaflet in pdf form:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/green-guide-to-the-uplands?s=3
« Last Edit: 07:19:28, 24/07/20 by richardh1905 »
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Little Foot

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #28 on: 15:35:13, 25/07/20 »

Given the problems that we are experiencing here in the Lake District, I think a free for all on camping is the last thing that we want. 


Responsible wild camping is, and will continue, to tolerated by the LDNP, as well as other bodies like the National Trust.   


It's the people who turn up, erect a tent (sometimes even right next to 'No Camping' signs), make fires, then get up the next day and walk away leaving behind a right old mess for someone else to clean up.   The only way to deal with those sort of people, is to fine them.   If our camping laws were the same as the Scottish ones, then the Police would be stripped off their powers to do so.


I think it should be pretty obvious that I don't expect people to go protesting about the legalities of wild camping in the middle of a pandemic. I'm of the attitude though, that our laws should be brought in line with Scotland, who don't seem to be suffering too badly since they came in (pre-pandemic). Perhaps if the laws on wild camping did change over the entire country, The Lakes wouldn't see such a massive increase on fly camping as it would be more spread out.


And in all seriousness, how easy is it to find and contact the owners of the land in all the areas in the Lake district? It says you are expected to ask them for permission afterall. That alone puts off the more responsible people, I feel, who are type of people who would probably help clear up the rubbish left behind by those who didn't give a hoot.

richardh1905

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Re: Wild camping
« Reply #29 on: 22:19:28, 25/07/20 »
I totally agree Littlefoot - high time that England adopted a more enlightened approach to access in general.

« Last Edit: 22:25:19, 25/07/20 by richardh1905 »
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