Author Topic: OS Maps and direction indicator  (Read 2031 times)

BuzyG

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #30 on: 10:07:23, 14/08/20 »
I believe that was what Ninthace said but I`m sure he will put me right if not .

Its just that a phone needs a magnetometer sensor along with a gyroscopic compass sensor to show direction of travel .The thing I cannot fathom is how a phone that didn`t show direction of travel on the OS mapping app , can then show it , by downloading another app . One cannot download a sensor that does that , one which shows north and direction of travel .


An app that new where it was at two or more points relative to an OS map grid north, could calculate it.  Not sure that any of them do that.  It would require the map down load to contain information on which way was grid north relative to the map down load. Simple trig after that.
« Last Edit: 10:12:31, 14/08/20 by BuzyG »

ninthace

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #31 on: 10:42:09, 14/08/20 »
There is a subtle distinction between course (or track) and heading. Most of the time, when walking or cycling it does not matter but it certainly does when flying or sailing. You need a compass to determine heading but a gps can tell you your course or track.
Solvitur Ambulando

Misty

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #32 on: 08:41:40, 23/08/20 »
Am I the only person who doesn't have a smart phone and still carries around paper OS maps and a plastic compass if necessary?!

archaeoroutes

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #33 on: 08:57:25, 23/08/20 »
The thing I cannot fathom is how a phone that didn`t show direction of travel on the OS mapping app , can then show it , by downloading another app . One cannot download a sensor that does that , one which shows north and direction of travel .
It is possible that installing the new app changed a setting, telling apps to use movement and GPS to indicate direction instead of the non-existent magnetometer. If so, simply changing that setting manually would have had the same effect.


Do they actually make smartphones with something missing
Definitely.


Am I the only person who doesn't have a smart phone and still carries around paper OS maps and a plastic compass if necessary?!
Not at all. I do mostly. However, I do use smartphone mapping in some circumstances:
I am somewhere wanting walk unexpectedly and haven't brought a map.
I am teaching nav and follow the candidate with GPS recording on so I can review what they did with them in a nice visual way.
What I cannot get on with at all is:
Planning a route on the fly on a tiny screen.
Following car sat nav style directions while walking (though I do publish walks people can follow in this style if they want).
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #34 on: 08:59:24, 23/08/20 »
Am I the only person who doesn't have a smart phone and still carries around paper OS maps and a plastic compass if necessary?!
I don't think so. I still occasionally pass someone who is studying a map while looking confused.  ;)

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #35 on: 10:13:46, 23/08/20 »
I have never used a phone or gps device for navigation.

ninthace

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #36 on: 11:10:53, 23/08/20 »
Am I the only person who doesn't have a smart phone and still carries around paper OS maps and a plastic compass if necessary?!
Many of the hikers I see coming through on the 2 Moors Way still have maps flapping about so you are in good company.

In more remote country I used to have a map tucked away in my pack though it was never used in anger in nearly 10 years.  Nowadays I leave it behind.  I did also go through a period of carrying A4 printouts of the relevant parts of the map in my pocket but I stopped doing that too for most of my walks, as my phone and memory are perfectly adequate.  My previous phone had a screen that was hard to read in full daylight but I used a Garmin as my main device anyway.  My latest phone is much better but I still use my Garmin when out on the moors or on a complicated route but I am normally paperless.

I do not even use paper maps to plan routes these days.  Instead it is an armchair job with a laptop.

I have a compass in the waistband pocket of my pack - or at least I think I do.  I have not actually used it to navigate since 2011
Solvitur Ambulando

RMR

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #37 on: 11:46:46, 23/08/20 »
Am I the only person who doesn't have a smart phone and still carries around paper OS maps and a plastic compass if necessary?!
I carry a map & compass as I have never had to recharge them. Waterproof Harvey maps whenever possible, the XT40 Ultramaps are great in wet/windy conditions.

WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #38 on: 15:00:01, 23/08/20 »
I could well be missing something here, but I've never understood how a paper map can be the preferred option when walking in extensive woodlands. I can see how a compass might be useful, but not a paper map.

I live within easy walking distance of the Blean, which is ancient woodland covering over 11 square miles and where I do a lot of my walking.

In the woods, paths are unreliable. Some that are marked on maps no longer exist on the ground. Paths exist on the ground that are not shown on maps. Paths sometimes look as though they'll head in a certain direction, only to twist and turn and head in completely the opposite direction. Landmarks are rare or non-existent. Path junctions can be a nightmare!

An example: Recently, I was following a PRoW footpath in the woods when the path on the ground began to diverge from the path shown on my Satmap handheld GPS. I continued following the path on the ground while keeping an eye on the Satmap so as to know where the path ought to be. When the undergrowth looked okay to tackle, I left the wrong path and used the Satmap to cross directly towards the line of the correct path, which I found. I was then able to continue on my way. I have never been lost in the woods, or followed the wrong path for long when carrying a GPS device.

I don't see how a paper map (and compass) would have helped in that situation.

The important point (I feel) is this: A GPS device shows me precisely where I am on the map. A paper map needs me to know exactly where I am on the map before it's of any use. In the woods without GPS, it's often extremely difficult for someone to know exactly where they are. In the woods, a required path can be just a few yards away through the trees and, while remaining invisible to the eye, be completely obvious on the GPS map.

(Having said all that, I do realise that many walkers prefer to stick to open hilly areas where navigation tends to be (in my experience) far easier.  ;) )

GinAndPlatonic

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #39 on: 15:10:51, 23/08/20 »
I think l know why l take a map with me when walking.. It is the same as keeping an old jacket in the wardrobe.. I can't bear to throw it away. l still love it.. So many memories..  :)
Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because it's excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience - Adam Smith

RMR

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #40 on: 15:12:15, 23/08/20 »
I could well be missing something here, but I've never understood how a paper map can be the preferred option when walking in extensive woodlands. I can see how a compass might be useful, but not a paper map.

I live within easy walking distance of the Blean, which is ancient woodland covering over 11 square miles and where I do a lot of my walking.

In the woods, paths are unreliable. Some that are marked on maps no longer exist on the ground. Paths exist on the ground that are not shown on maps. Paths sometimes look as though they'll head in a certain direction, only to twist and turn and head in completely the opposite direction. Landmarks are rare or non-existent. Path junctions can be a nightmare!

An example: Recently, I was following a PRoW footpath in the woods when the path on the ground began to diverge from the path shown on my Satmap handheld GPS. I continued following the path on the ground while keeping an eye on the Satmap so as to know where the path ought to be. When the undergrowth looked okay to tackle, I left the wrong path and used the Satmap to cross directly towards the line of the correct path, which I found. I was then able to continue on my way. I have never been lost in the woods, or followed the wrong path for long when carrying a GPS device.

I don't see how a paper map (and compass) would have helped in that situation.

The important point (I feel) is this: A GPS device shows me precisely where I am on the map. A paper map needs me to know exactly where I am on the map before it's of any use. In the woods without GPS, it's often extremely difficult for someone to know exactly where they are. In the woods, a required path can be just a few yards away through the trees and, while remaining invisible to the eye, be completely obvious on the GPS map.

(Having said all that, I do realise that many walkers prefer to stick to open hilly areas where navigation tends to be (in my experience) far easier.  ;) )
[/quote
I admit to losing a path in woodland on a few occasions but have used a compass to get out, tbh most woods I've come across are not that big so not a great life threatening situation. Before everyone started using GPS I can't remember seeing woods full of walkers wandering around aimlessly. I trust my map & compass 100%

WhitstableDave

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #41 on: 16:07:00, 23/08/20 »
I admit to losing a path in woodland on a few occasions but have used a compass to get out, tbh most woods I've come across are not that big so not a great life threatening situation. Before everyone started using GPS I can't remember seeing woods full of walkers wandering around aimlessly. I trust my map & compass 100%.

Perhaps I should add that carrying a handheld GPS means that you are actually carrying a (zoom-able) map in your hand, and a compass as well. The difference is only that the GPS will tell you exactly where you are on the map you're carrying. Some people will also have a map and compass on their phone and/or watch as well as a traditional compass tucked away in their pack. It's rarely an either/or choice.

I'm not sure that everyone has started using GPS, but even so... in my experience, woods are not only never full of walkers, but neither have they ever been full of walkers. Except within doggy-walking-distance of a woodland car park, it's rare to see a soul in our local woods and extremely rare to see anyone at all once you leave the main tracks.

(BTW, I did say that a compass might be useful. It was a paper map that I wondered about!)

RMR

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #42 on: 16:20:18, 23/08/20 »
When I said woods were full of walkers it was in reply to you saying that you need GPS to find your way, I was saying that it follows that pre GPS people must have been lost in woods. I just cannot understand people that walk with a GPS device in their hand all the time, why do they need to know exactly where they are all the time?. If they are so worried just stay at home, no sense of adventure albeit on a small scale.

Bigfoot_Mike

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #43 on: 16:36:37, 23/08/20 »
I have never felt the need for a compass or map walking in woods and have never used GPS for walking. When I lived in England, I often walked in the New Forest and always knew the direction to the car. Perhaps I was navigating subconsciously, taking account of sun, wind and sounds?


Navigation is by no means easier on open hills or moorland than in woods in poor weather conditions, which are frequent in upland Britain.

RMR

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Re: OS Maps and direction indicator
« Reply #44 on: 16:44:17, 23/08/20 »
With ref to hills & moor navigation I totally agree with you.  I would rather be on Kinder Scout in bad weather with map & compass than with a low level battery power GPS.