Author Topic: Practicalities of compass and map navigation  (Read 2588 times)

ninthace

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #60 on: 14:59:13, 02/09/20 »

Just been looking at the map and I cannot see any mention of a recreational path.   I guess you are talking about a green pecked line heading NE through the quarry from SK 072 994 to SK 074 999 or thereabouts and the square building at SK 075 999?  Just looking at the line of that path sets of alarm bells.  It is far too straight and confident for the terrain which indicates that it could be another one of the figments of the Definitive Map.  Compare it to the black pecked lines in the same area.  You this a lot in wild country where the green lines head confidently off in straight lines or sweeping curves without reference to the underlying contours and terrain.   If you are using the OS website, a tip I can offer is to check your proposed route against the aerial picture to see if the line of the path actually exists on the ground.  Failing that, have a look at in GoogleEarth.
If I have got the Crowden, disregard - I am talking cobblers.
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metanome

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #61 on: 16:03:20, 02/09/20 »
Didn't realize the car park thing was such an established mistake, reassuring to hear that! As forgotmyoldpassword and windyrigg suggest, I think I may have attached myself too closely (at that point) to my map, and not enough to the compass.[/size]


ninthface, you're absolutely right, I see it's marked as a path, not a recreational route. The second half of my planned route was down the Penine Way from Black Hill (which is marked on the map as a recreational route), and at some point I must have conflated that section with the section I was on. All part of the learning process...


You said the missing path may be 'one of the figments of the Definitive Map' - does that mean it mean just be a historical holder, e.g. possibly from before the quarry itself in use? If not, why would a ROW be established up the side of a quarry? I'd actually read in Navigation for Walkers before I set off that I should be wary of green lines not accompanied by black lines, but it must have slipped from my mind - definitely adding that pointer to my mental store now.


Also, can someone recommend a resource (ideally a website) which can help with map notation when planning a route? I don't know if there's a standard system, but I was reading somewhere about triangles with a dot in them vs. circles with a dot in them etc. I freestyled my own notation when planning this last route, but it's a bit of a mess and very inconsistent.

ninthace

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #62 on: 16:21:35, 02/09/20 »
Yes, the "car park problem" is well known.  There are two groups of walkers, those that have taken the wrong route out of the car park and fibbers  :)   I made the mistake once in the New Forest a long while ago. In the direction I needed to leave, there were 2 paths about 10 ft apart disappearing into the woods.  As soon as I got into the woods I realised I had chosen the wrong one as it started to curve in the wrong direction - a short walk between the trees on a bearing got me on the right one.
Who knows what was in the mind of City Hall when they drew the Definitive Map?  I believe it was very much a paper exercise with people drawing on the lines they were told to for whatever reason.  Barewirewalker could bore for England on the subject I am sure  ;)
As to map notation.  Can't help I'm afraid - I am a digital maps person and have been since 2005 so my hard copy routes are just a magenta line on a sheet of A4 printout or a gps/phone screen.  I remember in the days when I used MemoryMap, you could printout a route card giving the bearing and distance between waypoints but I don't bother these days.
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archaeoroutes

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #63 on: 16:27:01, 02/09/20 »
Remember that rights of way on the map (eg the green pecked line mentioned upthread) do not mean there is a physical path there. It is the black 'pecked' lines that show them. Often they coexist and you can see one under the other. I don't know the area in question, but it could be that the right of way predates the quarry.

And, yes, car parks! I train and assess navigation at all levels but still think very hard leaving the carpark.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

WhitstableDave

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #64 on: 16:39:36, 02/09/20 »
I think it's important to remember that in real woods (I'm discounting pine plantations!) paths have lives of their own. They move, and expecting the definitive map (or indeed any map) to reflect reality is asking a lot.

Trees fall. Paths get boggy. People make diversions when they encounter blockages. We follow lines of least resistance! Animals make paths, which people sometimes follow. These new paths are followed by those who follow and they become the new 'best paths'. But they in their turn get boggy or blocked and new detours are created. And so on.







metanome

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #65 on: 16:42:37, 02/09/20 »
Yes, I think with the route I'd initially planned, I was deferring to my book, which states that 'these  paths are not public' (although it acknowledges it's a grey area).


Still a little unsure of the proper form here - there were a few other people who I passed yesterday going along the same black path I eventually settled on, and the landscape was such I could never have imagined someone challenging me. How do others approach it? Use a path unless there's a clear sign to the contrary (lack of style at field boundary, a physical sign, a path leading into someone's garden etc.)? Don't want to too precious at the expense of enjoying my walks (esp. if I'm following convention), but don't want to merrily charge across someone else's property when not welcome.



archaeoroutes

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #66 on: 17:15:55, 02/09/20 »
Was it on Access Land? If so, not a problem.
Otherwise, could be somewhere with established access.
Or just somewhere that the owner turns a blind eye to as long as no-one does anything stupid.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

archaeoroutes

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #67 on: 17:23:20, 02/09/20 »
I just spotted a grid reference upthread, so I've pulled out a map to look.
If I'm in the right area and looking at the same map version as you, the ROW through W is not marked as having a physical path. The physical path goes through B.
The land within the brown shading is fine for access.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

metanome

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #68 on: 17:48:25, 02/09/20 »
Thanks yes, now see the brown shading. What do W and B refer to?[/size]


And another question about symbols. The key has a dashed or solid black single or double black line as signifying 'Other road, drive or track, fenced or unfenced'. Can you confirm that a double dashed black line signifies a relatively substantial unfenced path, and a single dashed line would show a somewhat smaller unfenced path? I walked both paths that split at at 073 999 yesterday, and the only distinguishing feature I can really remember between the two is that one was more diminutive than the other.


And if that's the case, then presumably a double or single solid black line indicate a larger or smaller fenced path, respectively (rather than a path that is fenced on both sides or one)?

ninthace

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #69 on: 18:18:38, 02/09/20 »
I cannot see the W and B you refer to.


Basically a single pecked line is a path and a double pecked line is a track with no hedge/wall/fence.  What they look like in reality depends on the season and how much they are used.  They can anything from concrete farm highways to completely invisible.  If they are on Open Access Land you are free to use them, if not then technically you are trespassing.  The orange versions are paths or tracks that the landowner has agreed to let the public use.  Occasionally, they may be closed but it is unusual.
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metanome

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #70 on: 18:31:49, 02/09/20 »
I was referring to the W and B mentioned in archaeoroutes' post. Thanks for the other info

archaeoroutes

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #71 on: 20:53:30, 02/09/20 »
I was referring to the B and W of Brockholes Wood.
Walking routes visiting ancient sites in Britain's uplands: http://www.archaeoroutes.co.uk

Eyelet

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Re: Practicalities of compass and map navigation
« Reply #72 on: 13:46:16, 07/09/20 »
I would also second GoneWest's endorsement in post #12 of Lyle Brotherton's "Ultimate Navigation Manual" - I agree it's the best book on navigation out there.  O0  It also is very good on the use of Global Navigation Satellite Systems (GNSS) particularly with dedicated outdoor GPSr devices, but now could be usefully updated to cover current smart phones and 'GPS' apps.


Lyle sets out a series of lesson plans for newbies, intermediate, advanced and expert users alike so there is always something to learn or brush up on irrespective of your experience. It can be picked up new for around 12 inc P&P. Lyle has also produced a series of videos available on YouTube.


Another simpler free and very useful reference especially for novices is the Navigators Dozen.This is very readable of the twelve most important navigation skills was originally developed by the Mountaineering Council of Scotland (now called Mountaineering Scotland). It has been around for quite a while and has stood the test of time. This can be easily found online and an excellent pdf version adapted for DoE Gold participants is available on the Meadows Open Gold (meadowsdofe.org.uk) website. This website also has an excellent navigation resources page with links to many other sites and to the excellent series of navigation videos produced by Glenmore Lodge (the highly respected Scottish national outdoor training centre). O0