Author Topic: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass  (Read 5104 times)

BuzyG

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #105 on: 10:21:06, 26/10/20 »
Unfortunately we are left to assume far too much from that report.  It demonstrates that the law is pretty strong now though.  Hence benefits the current campaign to keep Trespass a civil offence. 


Of course assumption, but they must surely have caused some one reason to take out the action against them.  We can be reasonably certain that they were not simply passing through and camped quietly out of the way for a night.  It would be nice to see a few useful details in the press report though.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #106 on: 11:24:21, 26/10/20 »
Never let facts get in the way of a good story :D

I suspect the CLA will jump upon this as well :(

ninthace

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7647
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #107 on: 12:11:12, 26/10/20 »
If you read the story carefully, they were actually fined for being in breach of the Foresty Act Bylaws.  Perhaps a badly worded headline?
According to
https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/what-we-do/how-we-regulate-you/our-regulatory-responsibilities/offence-response-options/forestry-offences/?lang=en  they do get cross if you fell a tree without permission.
Their policy on Wild Camping can be inferred here:https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/news-and-events/news/open-letter-urges-campers-to-respect-the-welsh-environment-this-bank-holiday-weekend/?lang=en
Basically you must have permission.
Solvitur Ambulando

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3477
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #108 on: 12:37:12, 26/10/20 »
Trust Ninthace to dig out the true slant on this story, it is a sad day when the popular press jump into back up a spurious case with fake news. I have had a good chuckle at these posts as they remind me of a new CLA member of the LAF I served on.

Never let facts get in the way of a good story :D
I suspect the CLA will jump upon this as well :(
Within a few minutes of taking his seat on the forum and making an introduction as not a landowner, but a private consultant to landowner interests. He manage to connect public access with the risk of fungal disease spread in Rhodadendrons. Blinding everyone, not so well blessed as himself with inside knowledge, he referred to the risk as Phytophera, he failed to qualify this further. Leaving me confused that perhaps the CLA would wish to ban all walkers would had walked through a potato field from spreading Phytophera Infestans far an wide and bring on the second coming of the Irish Famine to all the British Isles.

So Andies fear is not so wide of the mark if fake news can bolster your case, so be it.

The CLA managed to suppress news that it was, probably, their own members, who trying to maximize profit from tree planting grants, bought cheap infected tree stock and put all our Ash trees at risk from Ash Die Back fungus.
 :2funny:
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

BuzyG

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #109 on: 13:54:57, 26/10/20 »
If you read the story carefully, they were actually fined for being in breach of the Foresty Act Bylaws.  Perhaps a badly worded headline?
According to
https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/what-we-do/how-we-regulate-you/our-regulatory-responsibilities/offence-response-options/forestry-offences/?lang=en  they do get cross if you fell a tree without permission.
Their policy on Wild Camping can be inferred here:https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/news-and-events/news/open-letter-urges-campers-to-respect-the-welsh-environment-this-bank-holiday-weekend/?lang=en
Basically you must have permission.

That seems a well balanced article.

https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/news-and-events/news/open-letter-urges-campers-to-respect-the-welsh-environment-this-bank-holiday-weekend/?lang=en

This year has, quite evidently, been very different to those preceding it.  I'm sure most if not all of us have noticed the increased erosion and rubbish on popular routes that we walk.  I don't often take the direct route down from Yes tor, but did the other evening, as it was dark and it's the safes way back down to Meldon.  The surface is mostly completely worn through to soil and wider than ever.  I have never seen that before. Evidence not just that it has been a damp summer, but that many more folk have walked up and down that route this year than is usual.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #110 on: 14:57:37, 26/10/20 »
BWW's story about his LAF reminds me of when I contacted Suffolk's LAF a few years ago. I was frustrated by the ROW Department's inability to deal with basic issues around broken and missing signage, together with blocked and non reinstated ROW, especially when many issues had been reported many times and in some cases had not been dealt with five years later, despite assurances that they would be dealt with.
My email to the LAF remained unanswered for some weeks, but eventually I received an acknowledgement, and thereafter a reply. Sadly the reply wasn't actually from the LAF addressing my question of what oversight they took of the ROW Department's performance but rather a reply from the head of the ROW Department! The reply made various general observations but failed to address my question. I subsequently awaited the next LAF meeting to see what if anything they would say. The minutes of the meeting recorded that they considered the issue dealt with by the head of the Department's letter!
It confirmed my view that the LAF was as useless as the ROW Department seems to be.
The only plus was that almost all the long outstanding issues I had reported were then miraculously dealt with  O0
« Last Edit: 15:02:30, 26/10/20 by Andies »

barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3477
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #111 on: 10:08:57, 27/10/20 »
BWW's story about his LAF
The only plus was that almost all the long outstanding issues I had reported were then miraculously dealt with  O0
Glad you got some sort of result. I got appointed to a LAF because I was reporting issue like yours to the RoW dept and then they were trying to make numbers. I was totally independent of any lobby group, 30+ years out of farming with I had founded a business loosely connected to the hospitality trade. Perhaps I was aware of a perspective, that only I could see, but so glaringly obvious that the stupidly embedded attitudes of both ramblers and landowners blind them from a common cause. And the local gov.com rules are designed to protect the status quo.



The professional landowner consultant (X), introduced by the CLA member of the LAF, was bought on the fill his place as he was about to take the Chair. That was when I got the push, (no complaints I had done 3 yrs over my 2) but within a couple of years I learnt that X had been maneuvered into the Chair. So a landowner clone now chairs the now Great Outdoors Liaison Group of the central of the 3 counties that blocks Mid-England from routes reaching the Welsh coast. This counties contribution to LDP's is a meandering circular route that avoids all the areas that are bare of 'off road routes' because of the landowners hostility to the formation of RoWs in the 1950-60's, thus corrupting the DM.





« Last Edit: 10:21:27, 27/10/20 by barewirewalker »
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

Andies

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #112 on: 15:26:40, 27/10/20 »
BWW's experiences and views sit very close to my own, and I think that as the years pass by I am becoming evermore resigned to the inability of groups that should be working for the good of access, seeming to fail, IMHO.
For example I have separately referred to my Ramblers membership renewal or not on this forum. On the surface they seem the perfect body to lead the fight for access, but on a personal level they left me very frustrated by their non-existent support.
My local ROW Department consistently fails to uphold it's responsibilities but you get nowhere trying to pursue matters with them. Result I just don't bother to report matters to them anymore. I know where the ROW are so I just walk them regardless ignoring the multitude of issues seen of: blocked routes, non-reinstated routes, damaged and missing signage.
The counties LAF; well best not say anymore.....
So what's the point of me moaning on, well, I think I will just conclude that I will do my own thing, go where I think reasonable, and yes trespass if I think it appropriate to do so. If those organisations aren't getting anywhere with all the problems then I will just quietly find my own way righteous or not  ;)


barewirewalker

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3477
Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #113 on: 11:23:58, 28/10/20 »
I agree with you Andies, I would miss your support when I find some way of inserting a dissenting voice to interrupt necessary flow of topics so pertinent to our core interest as fracking and bicycle repair.
My days of climbing more difficult styles or being able to leg it out of the way irate lord of the manor as passing me by. But when some of those experiences I have enjoyed may help to ridicule the self importance of occupiers of our countryside, I will no doubt be tempted to throw in my two pennyworth.

If you find a kilometer square without a RoW in it, it is a sad state of affairs not to wonder if there is a worth while way through it.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.