Author Topic: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass  (Read 3230 times)

ninthace

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #15 on: 08:19:00, 26/08/20 »
Many people like to sneakily camp while out. I definitely hope to in the future. That's why I signed it just in case it made that even more difficult than it already is in the UK. Besides not a complete fan of eroding rights.
I see what you mean but I am not sure Trespasss is a right.  Someone can already be taken to court for it.
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WhitstableDave

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #16 on: 08:42:14, 26/08/20 »
I've read the Government's response and I support making intentional trespass a criminal offence, so I won't be signing the petition.

pdstsp

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #17 on: 09:17:51, 26/08/20 »

Sledgehammer to crack a nut, though. Unless the legislation is very carefully worded, it could impact upon those not looking to set up a semi permanent encampment.
If nothing else, a strong response to this petition will send a strong message to the government about the legitimate concerns of countryside users, and I urge everyone to sign on that basis alone.


Well put.  And current legislation is generally very far from being well worded.

pdstsp

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #18 on: 09:18:48, 26/08/20 »
I've read the Government's response and I support making intentional trespass a criminal offence, so I won't be signing the petition.


On this basis Barewirewalker will be spending a lot of time in the clink.

Birdman

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #19 on: 09:41:24, 26/08/20 »
Signed


I see the required signatures are almost reached :)
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barewirewalker

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #20 on: 10:17:18, 26/08/20 »
Sledgehammer to crack a nut
If nothing else, a strong response to this petition will send a strong message to the government about the legitimate concerns of countryside users, and I urge everyone to sign on that basis alone.
Where is the weakness in the case for those against this government proposal. No one has fully exposed the Corruption of the Definitive map and made public the extent landowners thwarted the intention of the 1949 Act that gives us the basic right to share the countryside as much as we do today. Leisure Walking supports the growing Leisure industry, some element of the Scottish Land Reform Act is needed to counterbalance the negative this act will give landowners, who have an embedded opposition to access.

Those, who have signed are wise. Sadly I think that the British Farmers will be the losers in the long run, when public opinion starts to feel the impact arrogant landownership.



On this basis Barewirewalker will be spending a lot of time in the clink.
It seems that I have spent a lot of time avoiding the sort of situation that might get me thrown in clink. But I have had closer contact with the sort of people, who will abuse this additional power. Best thing I ever did, was to get out the sort of farming, where I would have to place my trust in a Landowner.

Looking at your Maps and thinking, "where might I walk to make a better route" will be a dangerous hobby. The fact that this line of thinking could improve our access network and add to the national economy and well being, has hardly been touched on.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

gunwharfman

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #21 on: 11:02:05, 26/08/20 »
In my experience of life, even if the belief is that's it's only for 'immigrants' or 'travellers' it will eventually be used on everyone else, it just needs the circumstances and the 'right mood' to develop in the minds of those who rule us or aspire to rule us and it will happen. From little acorns, big oak trees grow!

gunwharfman

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #22 on: 11:23:50, 26/08/20 »
Wher I live, half a mile away on Southsea Common we had a group of 'caravan dwellers' just turn up recently and parked for three days on the grass. Then they were gone. No problems as far as I know, just in the minds of other people perhaps?

Anyway, problem solved, the council have placed large rocks along the perimeter of the area. It actually looks good, mum's will love it seeing their little children jumping from rock to rock and it proveds new seating for everyone else as well. OK, a one-off cost, an easy solution, so why do Governments always seem to go for the costly, elaborate and the socially provocative ways of solving a problem? I assume it's their need and desire for power over others and their/our need to be always on the lookout for people that we judge to be 'different' so we can blame them with no conscience problems t0o

Birdman

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #23 on: 11:28:20, 26/08/20 »
If the law is only intended to get rid of the "caravan dwellers", "Travellers", it should be designed as such and not be a blanket "all tresspassing is criminal" type of law.
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barewirewalker

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #24 on: 11:34:25, 26/08/20 »
I see what you mean but I am not sure Trespasss is a right.  Someone can already be taken to court for it.
Maybe not but at some time in our history the public need to create De Facto ways was recognised. The proof of that is in the 19th century surveys of the Ordnance Surveys. The criminalizing of trespass will block this method of creating new ways, even more so than the difficulties already in place.


The indifference of the walkers to this need is as big an obstacle as the opposition of the occupiers of the countryside. This indifference has resulted in ignorance of the value of an extended access network, therefore the reasons to extend are not available to maximize the arguments that could expose the dangers inherent in this new legislation.

The counter should be a responsibility placed on the occupiers to recognize how their holdings affect the community at large.

Birdman; I think GWM has touched on that. If the empirical dangers of this are not met then the consequences will be far more reaching than the intention of the law is intended.
BWW
Their Land is in Our Country.

GoneWest

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #25 on: 13:41:11, 26/08/20 »
As you may no the Government intend to make Trespass into a criminal offence. Currently it is a civil offence, which is a very different thing.


If you feel this is a bad idea then there is a petition linked bellow where you can express your vote. I will say no more here it;s still a free country after all.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300139
Thank you for the link.

I've read the Government's response and I support making intentional trespass a criminal offence, so I won't be signing the petition.

Same here.

Has anyone read the “Government responded / read the full response” link underneath the petition?
 
Amongst other things, it says:
 
“Such measures would not affect ramblers, the right to roam or rights of way. Instead, measures could be applied in specific circumstances relating to trespass with intent to reside. ”
 

Like you, I read the petition, such as it is, and the whole of the government's surprisingly lucid and well-thought-out response. The latter makes it clear, too, that last year's consultation is still under review. When the matter comes before the House, I'm sure our elected representatives will also give it careful and thorough consideration. ;)

richardh1905

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #26 on: 13:58:25, 26/08/20 »
I do not share your faith in our elected representatives.
WildAboutWalking - Join me on my walks through the wilder parts of Britain

GoneWest

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #27 on: 14:02:42, 26/08/20 »
I do not share your faith in our elected representatives.

Hence the " ;) ", but parliamentary and electoral reform and the suitability of various people for the jobs they do are not subjects we should even contemplate getting into on this forum :-X

gunwharfman

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #28 on: 14:20:19, 26/08/20 »
I'm sure that part of my view has been shaped by my experience of working in 1000 - 1300 patient and 50-bed ward psychiatric hospitals.
I soon discovered how some people did not want to solve problems, they liked the power of being able to escalate the difficulty and then come down hard which satisfied a violence need in themselves, could in their mind justify their subsequent aggression towards others and loved the power that they had over others.

It happens everywhere, some people want to be in the thick of it whilst others like being an onlooker. Specialists and academics have studied this for a long time so I'm sure that when any legislation to 'control or deter' the public is contemplated not all of there motives are upfront and in the open.

Of course if the expected unemployment a rising number of evictions materalises I wonder how many new people and familes will start to live in caravans? If it happened to me I know that I would, far better than living in a car or on the streets in my view! Of course in my area if you are lucky, you could always live on a boat, which most people I know would find very acceptable.

GoneWest

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Re: Petition Against Criminalising Trespass
« Reply #29 on: 14:35:09, 26/08/20 »
Of course if the expected unemployment a rising number of evictions materalises I wonder how many new people and familes will start to live in caravans? If it happened to me I know that I would, far better than living in a car or on the streets in my view! Of course in my area if you are lucky, you could always live on a boat, which most people I know would find very acceptable.


I once did live on a narrowboat (a very small one) for pecuniary reasons, though I wasn't completely broke - just decided not to become so. It's not where or how one chooses to live, per se, that's important - to me, anyway - but how one's behaviour affects other people. Live and let live. Too many people nowadays disregard the second part completely.
« Last Edit: 14:40:42, 26/08/20 by GoneWest »