Author Topic: got lost for the first time in Kent  (Read 1880 times)

Percy

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #30 on: 08:30:49, 18/09/20 »
Sorry, just about to set off on a walking holiday in Devon. I'll let you know when I get back...

A quick thought though. I spent more than £500 on a dedicated GPS and I think it money very well spent. If you spent good money on a GPS and find it no better than your phone, then perhaps you wasted a lot of money. Who's the lucky one?
I bought the GPS over 5 years ago when phones weren’t up to the job.


Who’s the one throwing their toys out if their pram because some had the temerity to mildly contradict them?

ninthace

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #31 on: 14:56:42, 18/09/20 »
Sorry, just about to set off on a walking holiday in Devon. I'll let you know when I get back...

A quick thought though. I spent more than £500 on a dedicated GPS and I think it money very well spent. If you spent good money on a GPS and find it no better than your phone, then perhaps you wasted a lot of money. Who's the lucky one?

I bought the GPS over 5 years ago when phones weren’t up to the job.


Who’s the one throwing their toys out if their pram because some had the temerity to mildly contradict them?


Perhaps I can help.  I did a walk this very morning that highlights a few of the issues being debated.


The planned route was one that can only really be accurately followed using gps.
This is the route as shown on the OS map.

The route followed a series of paths and tracks, the majority of which are not on the OS map.
Here is the aerial image from the OS website that I used to construct the route.


Clearly there is a wealth of detail available in this image that is not in the OS map so a paper map and compass would be of little value in trying to follow it.  In an instance like this a gps is the preferred tool for following the intended route.


Turning to the phone/dedicated gps debate.  Once upon a time I was firmly in the dedicated device camp but now, in terms of performance there is little to choose between.  In fact the purple trace in the OS map image above is actually two traces superimposed.  The red trace is from my phone and the blue trace is from my Garmin Etrex.


The image below is an enlargement showing both traces, you can just make them out.  I suggest there is nothing to choose between them


And this is an aerial image of the same bit, including the backtrack where my gps alarmed because I had missed my turning which I think makes my point of using a gps to find the right path in this kind of well walked but poorly mapped terrain.


And just to close - this is what it actually looks like in that area


Not exactly full of features to fix on when you compare it with the map!





Solvitur Ambulando

pauldawes

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #32 on: 15:14:20, 18/09/20 »

Yes I have the whole SW of England loaded at 25K


I can view it Zoomed in but I can no longer zoom out like I once could. The App trys to switch to the 50k map that I don't have loaded and if there is no signal then all I get is a blank screen.


You won’t be surprised to hear that when I tested it (the OS app) on my phone today when I got to an area with no reception...it operated exactly like yours...my notion that it still zoomed out okay was wrong.

Ridge

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #33 on: 15:34:55, 18/09/20 »
I'm going to take issue with the very first post in this thread
I normally walk in kent and thus far have managed never to let lost. There's been a few times I wasn't entirely sure where I was....but never totally adrift.

Today i managed it.  :)

Only by a mile or so. I was walking down near westerham, everything was fine until I got into the woods, and then what was on the map bore zero relation to what was on the ground. The PROW on the map just vanished....and there were loads of paths that weren't on the map. came out by Chartwell and then I knew where I was.
I put it to you sir that, when it comes to getting lost, you are a rank amateur. You went in to the woods knowing where you were and when you emerged you knew where you were. 1 mile out does not constitute lost that is just going for a walk in an area you don't know.
Until you have been at least 3 hours late getting home for your tea or emerged from the woods of Kent to find you are looking at the Taj Mahal then you have not been properly lost.
Please try harder in future.
« Last Edit: 15:39:00, 18/09/20 by Ridge »

Agentorange

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #34 on: 17:34:57, 18/09/20 »
I'm going to take issue with the very first post in this threadI put it to you sir that, when it comes to getting lost, you are a rank amateur. You went in to the woods knowing where you were and when you emerged you knew where you were. 1 mile out does not constitute lost that is just going for a walk in an area you don't know.
Until you have been at least 3 hours late getting home for your tea or emerged from the woods of Kent to find you are looking at the Taj Mahal then you have not been properly lost.
Please try harder in future.

Ok , dad  ;D

It's a work in progress you know, the more walking I do the more lost I imagine I'll become

pauldawes

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #35 on: 18:17:41, 18/09/20 »
Ok , dad  ;D

It's a work in progress you know, the more walking I do the more lost I imagine I'll become


Daniel Boone: “I have never been lost, but admit to being confused for several weeks”

BuzyG

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #36 on: 22:28:29, 19/09/20 »

You won’t be surprised to hear that when I tested it (the OS app) on my phone today when I got to an area with no reception...it operated exactly like yours...my notion that it still zoomed out okay was wrong.


Good to read it is not just something with me or my phone. Thx for the reply. O0

BuzyG

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #37 on: 23:06:51, 19/09/20 »

Perhaps I can help.  I did a walk this very morning that highlights a few of the issues being debated.


The planned route was one that can only really be accurately followed using gps.
This is the route as shown on the OS map.

The route followed a series of paths and tracks, the majority of which are not on the OS map.
Here is the aerial image from the OS website that I used to construct the route.


Clearly there is a wealth of detail available in this image that is not in the OS map so a paper map and compass would be of little value in trying to follow it.  In an instance like this a gps is the preferred tool for following the intended route.


Turning to the phone/dedicated gps debate.  Once upon a time I was firmly in the dedicated device camp but now, in terms of performance there is little to choose between.  In fact the purple trace in the OS map image above is actually two traces superimposed.  The red trace is from my phone and the blue trace is from my Garmin Etrex.


The image below is an enlargement showing both traces, you can just make them out.  I suggest there is nothing to choose between them


And this is an aerial image of the same bit, including the backtrack where my gps alarmed because I had missed my turning which I think makes my point of using a gps to find the right path in this kind of well walked but poorly mapped terrain.


And just to close - this is what it actually looks like in that area


Not exactly full of features to fix on when you compare it with the map!


Would it matter though if you took a few wrong turns.  What matters is you both enjoy the walk and get safely from the start to the finish.  Clearly you also enjoy the panning and the tech.  I too enjoy planning some of my walks in detail and in new areas it very much adds to the day, as it reduces your workload and means you can enjoy things more, if you don't have to spend too much time navigating.


Before I ever had tried GPS. I recall a call from the Ramblers walks sec not long after I had joined the Moorland group.  The walk leader for the next days walk was ill could I take the group.  Of course I excepted and the route was e-mailed through to me.  It was on an area of the moor I had little knowledge of.  So after a quick panic attack I studied the OS map for an hour or so and built up a mental picture of what I might expect to see on the ground at key points.


Then the next morning I got up early and visited all those I could get close to by car.  Then met the group at 10am.  The walk went really well. A little cloud on the tops but nothing too thick.  The only small error on my part was suggesting we could walk on past 1pm to the lunch stop.  Two of our ladies soon put me right there and we stopped just prior to 1pm, a tor earlier than I had in my thoughts.


Back at the car park the walks secretary came over and thanked me with an interesting admission.  She didn't know who I was. She thought she had called another member called John, who lived in that area of the moor.


That was only the second time I had walked with the group. Would I have learned more that day had I plotted the route on GPS and followed it. We will never know. ;)
« Last Edit: 23:15:31, 19/09/20 by BuzyG »

ninthace

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #38 on: 00:42:38, 20/09/20 »
Would a few wrong terms matter? Sometimes, even on Dartmoor. In this case, I had local knowledge. There are also quite a few fences in the area which are also not on the map and can only be crossed at specific points where ladder stiles have been built. If you miss one, you can end up with an unplanned detour.
But you miss my point. Combining information not available on the map with gps navigation gives you even more opportunities.  I have never found Dartmoor much of a navigational challenge except in bad weather as you can soon learn the major features and orientate by them but even there, there are paths not on the map which you can incorporate into a route, e.g. none of the paths from High Willhays to Dinger Tor are on the map but they are visible in the aerial view  The Lake District is a better example, there are lots of footpaths that have grown up that the OS knows nothing about.  The Howgills is another area where studying the aerial pictures will show shepherds’ tracks which can be exploited to make the going easier.  It is one thing to come across an unrecorded  path and hope it leads in the right direction and another to know it does.
Solvitur Ambulando

Ridge

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #39 on: 08:32:13, 20/09/20 »
Ok , dad  ;D

It's a work in progress you know, the more walking I do the more lost I imagine I'll become
;D  Keep up the good work.

fernman

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #40 on: 10:18:15, 20/09/20 »
none of the paths from High Willhays to Dinger Tor are on the map but they are visible in the aerial view  The Lake District is a better example, there are lots of footpaths that have grown up that the OS knows nothing about.  The Howgills is another area where studying the aerial pictures will show shepherds’ tracks which can be exploited to make the going easier.  It is one thing to come across an unrecorded  path and hope it leads in the right direction and another to know it does.

Should we perhaps expect the OS to show more "other paths" on their maps, the ones that are sometimes drawn as faint black dashed lines?

gunwharfman

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #41 on: 10:49:11, 20/09/20 »
Because I run daily around Portsdown Hill near Portsmouth and know the area in detail, I know where a number of footpaths are which are not on an OS map. This I assume must be the same all over the country? For example, I pass through a kissing gate which normally would appear to go nowhere in particular, but because I run the route day after day any stranger could now go through the gate and see the footpath clearly laid out. The other end has a kissing gate as well but most people would not expect to find it because they would be fooled by a gap in the hedge caused by drivers at the layby on the road above who stop and use part of the area (about 10-20yds away from the footpath) as a comfort break.  I know because they have often been surprised when I come pounding up behind them. The kissing gate is about 500yds further on.

BuzyG

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #42 on: 11:15:45, 20/09/20 »
Would a few wrong terms matter? Sometimes, even on Dartmoor. In this case, I had local knowledge. There are also quite a few fences in the area which are also not on the map and can only be crossed at specific points where ladder stiles have been built. If you miss one, you can end up with an unplanned detour.
But you miss my point. Combining information not available on the map with gps navigation gives you even more opportunities.  I have never found Dartmoor much of a navigational challenge except in bad weather as you can soon learn the major features and orientate by them but even there, there are paths not on the map which you can incorporate into a route, e.g. none of the paths from High Willhays to Dinger Tor are on the map but they are visible in the aerial view  The Lake District is a better example, there are lots of footpaths that have grown up that the OS knows nothing about.  The Howgills is another area where studying the aerial pictures will show shepherds’ tracks which can be exploited to make the going easier.  It is one thing to come across an unrecorded  path and hope it leads in the right direction and another to know it does.


Are you lost just because you are not on the nearest foot path?  What is wrong with simply wandering off into an area a you are unfamiliar with and enjoying the experience of exploring it. That is not being lost that is having fun. O0   Knowing exactly what is there has it's benefits. If you have others relying on you is a prime example. But it's just more fun to wing it most of the time. I continue to carry my phone. The GPS feature and maps loaded on it are fantastic. But I really don't need them 99% of the time and have come to realise that they take away part of the fun of walking for me.

ninthace

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #43 on: 12:55:28, 20/09/20 »

Are you lost just because you are not on the nearest foot path?  What is wrong with simply wandering off into an area a you are unfamiliar with and enjoying the experience of exploring it. That is not being lost that is having fun. O0   Knowing exactly what is there has it's benefits. If you have others relying on you is a prime example. But it's just more fun to wing it most of the time. I continue to carry my phone. The GPS feature and maps loaded on it are fantastic. But I really don't need them 99% of the time and have come to realise that they take away part of the fun of walking for me.
Fine on Dartmoor, where there are few obstacles that cannot be got round, rather less so in other areas with hedges and fences where straying is a trespass (mind you I sneaked in a planned trespass today to get from the 2MW to the road back to my car).  Not sure my neighbours would agree with the joys of serendipity.  They got lost in Braunton Borrows and it took them over an hour and half to find their way out!
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fernman

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Re: got lost for the first time in Kent
« Reply #44 on: 15:01:57, 20/09/20 »
Not sure my neighbours would agree with the joys of serendipity.  They got lost in Braunton Borrows and it took them over an hour and half to find their way out!

Well some people are like that aren't they. Not wanting to brag but I have a very good sense of direction. Looking at your maps, I reckon I could walk south from the car park to the point without a map, having only a memory of it in my head, and then turn west towards the sea, never mind on which path, any one would do that would take me to where I wanted. Then I would turn north keeping parallel with the coastline until I'd had enough, and then turn eastwards and find the car park.
I've done similar things before in areas unknown to me, both in GB and abroad, and without any map or navigation aid. I recall only one occasion when I became really lost, that was on a field meeting in a large Essex wood. I was with an elderly gent who I used to give lifts to, and he was having panic attacks, wanting to find houses to go and knock at and stuff, but I used my intuition to press on and find the way back to where we had parked.